[DanUk2003]

According to "Think Secret" and others 7B68 been seeded to ADC.

Has anyone installed it yet? Any comments etc...? Are we anywhere near GM?

[nforcer]

Was a new build of Safari present in this seed? Or are Safari builds strictly on their own separate seed list? In either case, I am interested to know how the next major version of Safari is, compared to the official version now.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by DanUk2003:
Are we anywhere near GM?

Of course.

[michaelb]

Originally posted by DanUk2003:
Are we anywhere near GM?

Jaguar builds went to 6C115.

At a build a day, there could still be a while to wait...

[eizzumdm]

Originally posted by nforcer:
Was a new build of Safari present in this seed? Or are Safari builds strictly on their own separate seed list? In either case, I am interested to know how the next major version of Safari is, compared to the official version now.

The latest Panther Safari build that comes with 7B68 is Safari 1.1(v100). The most significant feature difference between 1.0 and 1.1 so far is speed. Other than that, just fixes to WebCore to more accurately render CSS, etc.

TVGuide.com's TV listing redesign still renders poorly, but I imagine the fault there does not lie with Safari.

[lookmark]

Pantherbetaphiles demand more.

[eizzumdm]

Originally posted by lookmark:
Pantherbetaphiles demand more.

Um...the form screens in the initial set-up process use the rotating cube transition just like Keynote and fast-user switching.

...and Internet Connect has a funky new icon.



Changing the computer name in the Sharing control panel, now correctly updates the name instantly in the Finder sidebar (w/ B49, last build I tried, you had to log out).

The Input menu item in the menu bar is now turned on by default, and the Character Palette is the only other item turned on by default.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by eizzumdm:

Daaaamn, I like that icon.

[biscool]

That icon is worth US$129, I'm sold

[LightWaver-67]

I guess if there's always got to be a nay-sayer in the crowd... it's my turn to be that person.

To me... that icon looks like a shallow and uninspired attempt by a designer (not of Apple's staff) to make something look Aqua-esque and tie-into the existing "internet" icon, but the WAY that the "cable-jack" is inset (using the bevel) looks more suited to a flat plane, rather than a rounded, spherical surface... hence making it look out-of-place and just 'slapped-on' to get the effect quickly.

If it IS from Apple's design group, I hope it's only a temporary mock-up. If it's NOT temporary and it IS from Apple... then one of two things is true. Either:

a) Apple's design standards are slipping...

or

b) I'm talking out my a-hole and don't have a clue...

or quite possibly, both...!



G'day...!

[osxisfun]

i like it.

[lookmark]

I choose b.

Thanks for the l'il treats, eizzumdm.

[eizzumdm]

More stuff noticed...

Normally when you go into deep sleep, the power light pulses by shifting brightness. This feature is temporarily broken on my test system (Graphite Dual 533) --bug report time!

Also, one feature that I was hoping for is still not fixed. When you go into deep sleep for more than 10 seconds with an afp volume mounted, then wake up--the icon is still on the desktop. When you click on the icon, it immediately disappears and an "unexpectedly closed down" alert dialog pops up.

I would prefer it seemlessly reconnected upon wakeup or reconnected upon double-clicking the icon (like Mapped Network Volumes in Windows XP).

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by biscool:
That icon is worth US$129, I'm sold

Damn straight

[Liquidity X]

all of aqua finally updated? such as scrolls and progress bars? or we gonan be waiting on max for those also

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Liquidity X:
all of aqua finally updated? such as scrolls and progress bars? or we gonan be waiting on max for those also

what do you mean?

Who says only parts can be changed?

Did they say "All of aqua will be changed" and they need to "finnaly" get it done?

Whats wrong with the current scroll bars?

and progress bars!? I can see what might be wrong with the scroll bars, but not the progress.

-Owl

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Liquidity X:
all of aqua finally updated? such as scrolls and progress bars? or we gonan be waiting on max for those also

Pretty sure it'll be Max again. Apple is not showing any sign of changing those outdated widgets anytime soon

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by eizzumdm:
More stuff noticed...

Normally when you go into deep sleep, the power light pulses by shifting brightness. This feature is temporarily broken on my test system (Graphite Dual 533) --bug report time!

Also, one feature that I was hoping for is still not fixed. When you go into deep sleep for more than 10 seconds with an afp volume mounted, then wake up--the icon is still on the desktop. When you click on the icon, it immediately disappears and an "unexpectedly closed down" alert dialog pops up.

I would prefer it seemlessly reconnected upon wakeup or reconnected upon double-clicking the icon (like Mapped Network Volumes in Windows XP).

That's a pain; I'd rather the volume disappears. Attempting to reconnect could stall the Finder, which is the *current* problem.

[OwlBoy]

I knew if I started getting 7b59 that a new build would surface...

-Owl

[SYN]

I don't really expect this to work, but what the hell:

Do files created in the Terminal appear instantly in the Finder, or do you still have to select the window/desktop?

[pat++]

Originally posted by SYN:
I don't really expect this to work, but what the hell:

Do files created in the Terminal appear instantly in the Finder, or do you still have to select the window/desktop?

hehe. When I saw you posted on this thread, I was pretty sure of what would be your question btw, this is really my biggest concern about Panther.... we definitely need a Finder which auto updates files... anyone with 7B68 can test? Maybe you should go to AE and talk to Steve about this

[SYN]

Maybe you should go to AE and talk to Steve about this

I'll be working at the Apple Education booth, I'll definitely try and bug some of the higher ups

[DanUk2003]

Hi,

Out of interest, what are the boot times on Macs using Panther? By boot time, I mean the time it takes from switching the Power on, until the Finder appears.

On my iBook Dual-USB 500Mhz model, it takes nearly 2 minutes to start Jaguar....


Thanks,



Dan

[Nexus5]

Originally posted by SYN:
Do files created in the Terminal appear instantly in the Finder....?

no.

Nexus5.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by SYN:
I don't really expect this to work, but what the hell:

Do files created in the Terminal appear instantly in the Finder, or do you still have to select the window/desktop?

I would give this up if I were you....probably not going to happen on Apple's dime; however, let Unsanity know, they can make it work probably in 5 minutes or less...

[Spaztik]

I want some more screenshots. Yeah, I doubt Apple is ever going to notice that the scroll bars, progress bars and title bar widgets are still 10.0 "blurry-style"

But, oh well... We have Max to fix whatever imperfections Apple seems to miss so easily.

[addiecool]

Sometimes I feel that Apple always pushes out a new Mac OSX release in beta as a final product then keeps releasing updates. But the thing is that by the time we have a very nicely working system like 10.2.6 we are ready for a new release, this time panther. i feel panther is one great OS but still needs a lot of work and fear that many bugs will remain in the retail build.

and of!course the finder update thing is really annoying. Also I noticed in 7b59, that sometimes even a folder would not show a new file. I installed msn messenger and it was nowhere to be found in the apps folder. then I created a new folder inside apps and MSN showed up.

Updating the widgets and all would also give the release a more polished look, as many people don't use theme changers. the overall look should be consistent.

That is what Apple is known for

[zachs]

Is FTP uploading in the Finder fixed yet?

[Spaztik]

I agree with everything you said Addiecool.

Themes are good, but Apple should make it so that we shouldn't HAVE to use themes to bring consistancy to the OS.

[Matt OS X]

Ahh, I can't wait any longer for 10.3 GM!

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
I guess if there's always got to be a nay-sayer in the crowd... it's my turn to be that person.

To me... that icon looks like a shallow and uninspired attempt by a designer (not of Apple's staff) to make something look Aqua-esque and tie-into the existing "internet" icon, but the WAY that the "cable-jack" is inset (using the bevel) looks more suited to a flat plane, rather than a rounded, spherical surface... hence making it look out-of-place and just 'slapped-on' to get the effect quickly.

If it IS from Apple's design group, I hope it's only a temporary mock-up. If it's NOT temporary and it IS from Apple... then one of two things is true. Either:

a) Apple's design standards are slipping...

or

b) I'm talking out my a-hole and don't have a clue...

or quite possibly, both...!



G'day...!

You're right, the icon is messed up. Although it may look 'cool' it doesnt follow a real world design.


Chris

[LightWaver-67]

Yeah... I mean, it IS cool-looking... but it just doesn't seem like a whole-hearted effort. At least, not from a designer's perspective.

They are 'usually' detail oriented like myself, and that one seems pretty glaring to my eyes.

So... yeah... cool in a sense that the ORIGINAL icon it was derived from was cool to begin with... not as cool because all that was done was a color shift and pasting-over a jack with a bevel around it.

Eh... then again... I don't see any of MY icon designs being used at Apple... so what do I know...?



Peace...!!

[piracy]

Originally posted by zachs:
Is FTP uploading in the Finder fixed yet?

There's nothing wrong with it. It behaves exactly as it's supposed to.

[piracy]

Originally posted by michaelb:
Jaguar builds went to 6C115.

At a build a day, there could still be a while to wait...

So? That means nothing.

10.0 went to 4K78
10.1 went to 5G64
10.2 went to 6C115

Notice a trend?

On top of that:

1. There is often more than one build a day

2. As the OS has matured, the build trains get shorter

[piracy]

Originally posted by DanUk2003:
Hi,

Out of interest, what are the boot times on Macs using Panther? By boot time, I mean the time it takes from switching the Power on, until the Finder appears.

Who cares? Why are you even turning your machine off? There is no reason whatsoever to turn a machine off these days.

That said, Panther boots faster than Jaguar.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by piracy:
Who cares? Why are you even turning your machine off? There is no reason whatsoever to turn a machine off these days.

That said, Panther boots faster than Jaguar.

Some people feel compelled to turn them off to save a few dimes and feel good about energy conservation.
I certainly am not one of them, I hate to reboot, it reminds me of OS 9 or Windows 9x

[nforcer]

Originally posted by piracy:
Who cares? Why are you even turning your machine off? There is no reason whatsoever to turn a machine off these days.

That said, Panther boots faster than Jaguar.

For people with Powerbooks/iBooks bootup time does matter, because they don't have a battery that runs forever. They might use sleep mode in some situations, but there will be times when a complete powerdown is more economical.

Furthermore, there is reason to turn a Mac off or restart it these days. When you have to install software updates that require a restart, for example. Not to mention the other bugs in OS X that prevent me from keeping my system on all the time. Such as the one where disk space is taken up for some reason I have yet to pin down (no, I am not swapping memory to the disk, and yes, it has been confirmed by other people. If you use your system intensively for long periods of time and have to restart, before you restart, note the amount of free HD space before and after the restart... I can't really explain it but you'll see...)

[timmerk]

Originally posted by piracy:
Who cares? Why are you even turning your machine off? There is no reason whatsoever to turn a machine off these days.

retard.

[nobitacu]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Daaaamn, I like that icon.

I like this icon too...

Ming

[phillryu]

I don't think it was color shifted, I think the screenshot may have been messed up. (If he opened the pdf if PS to save as a gif or w/e, it can mess up the colors a bit).

[michaelb]

Originally posted by piracy:
So? That means nothing.

10.0 went to 4K78
10.1 went to 5G64
10.2 went to 6C115

Notice a trend?

Yeah, the best OS with the most improvements had more builds!

If Panther goes to 7B200 it will rock!

Seriously, was just pointing out in response to the Q about being close to release that being in high build numbers didn't necessary mean GM was imminent.

Personally, I predict 7B88, with a mid October release date.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by piracy:
There's nothing wrong with it. It behaves exactly as it's supposed to.

Although it works great for downloading in the Finder. I cannot upload anything to my FTP site. Privileges say read only.

[piracy]

Originally posted by michaelb:
Yeah, the best OS with the most improvements had more builds!

Uh, no. Jaguar had the *least* builds.

10.0 started at 4Axx and went to 4K78
10.1 started at 5Axx and went to 5G64
10.2 started at 6Axx and went to 6C115
10.3 started at 7Axx ...

10.2 had the *least* builds, by a fairly wide margin, in its development cycle. The numbers don't roll over at any particular times; they roll over when development milestones (letters) are reached to everyone's satisfaction (and because of time commitments, etc.)

As the OS as a whole matures, a lot less work needs to be done on core critical pieces. (That's not to say that critical work on the underpinnings still isn't taking place, just that less has to be done as the product matures, because the building blocks are already there, and solid. Then work can focus on enhancements, optimizations, and incremental improvements, which is one of the reasons you'll see another noticeable performance improvement with Panther.)

[Zimphire]

This actually feels decently stable.

"BEST ONE YET"

[Webscreamer]

The "Official" Webscreamer Bug List

List of bugs and visual GUI problems I compiled in Panther 7B68 that hopefully will be fixed before release. I would like to keep updating this list with every build we get... Hopefully by the time 10.3 GM arrives we will not need this list at all.

UPDATED: 12:45PM Sept 15th

Finder Related Problems/Bugs

- NEW Filenames in Finder windows leave little artifact lines where the file was.



- NEW Some utility file icons are really messed up! (Activity Monitor, Keychain Access, NetInfo Manager, Remove Script Menu, Install Script Menu, Input Method HotKey) After restart, it was fine.



- NEW With Desktop text set to size 10, alignment is off(too high) and text looks blurry.



- Finder toolbar icon "Connect" represents the old network icon.



- Finder Preferences window does not remember where you last placed it.

- When you change to graphite theme, the Stop-Light window-buttons stay multi-colored in all Finder windows.



- In the Finder Prefrences you can turn off all of the HDs, CDs, and Network items. But then in the Finder Sidebar, all you have is a line. Shouldn't this line disappear if nothing is above it?



Misc. Problems/Bugs

- In the Dock, when a Application is already hidden and you control click on an Application in the Dock, the menu still says "Hide", when it should say "Show"... even though you just have to click the icon to show. Oh well, BUT, should be fixed!



- In Disk Copy in Jaguar, we have a menu when we control-clicked on the Dock icon with quick tools. In Disk Utilities in 10.3, we lost these features.



- This is my biggest fear. Some apps are fixed now, abut others are not...weird. BUT, in save panels for applications if you have an Application(such as Mail) in it, you can save into Mail. But it is in the package Contents. This will really scare people who are new users...or even me when i can't find my stuff if I click the wrong button! Yikes!!!!!!!!



- Some Utilities(Like Directory Services, NetInfo Manager, ODBC Administrator, etc...) and apps still have the old unlock and lock icons. Should be replaced to match the new ones in System Prefrences.



- In the DVD Player app, the AppleScript menu logo has the old fashion one, now replaced in all other apps with a new gray one.



- The widget to hide/show toolbars looks different in normal Aqua windows than Simple Finder View widgets...slightly.



- iCal live-window dragging is very choppy.

- Shutdown time has seemed to take longer in recent builds than it did with the older builds(WWDC)

Other Findings(Not Bugs)

- Sheets always uncurl in Metal apps(Finder, Safari, Etc..). In Aqua apps(Text Edit, Preview, Etc..) the sheets comes straight down like normal(but with the dynamic drop shadow as they come down). But if a window is too small for the save dialog to come straight down, they uncurl as all Metal app sheets do.

- New intro and music. Music also plays for a while longer into the registration.

- Finder sheets now match other Metal apps and uncurl!

- Quicktime buttons fixed!

- Safari v1.1 at build number 100

[absmiths]

Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
I guess if there's always got to be a nay-sayer in the crowd... it's my turn to be that person.

To me... that icon looks like a shallow and uninspired attempt by a designer (not of Apple's staff) to make something look Aqua-esque and tie-into the existing "internet" icon, but the WAY that the "cable-jack" is inset (using the bevel) looks more suited to a flat plane, rather than a rounded, spherical surface... hence making it look out-of-place and just 'slapped-on' to get the effect quickly.

I have to disagree. Granted, the icon will undoubtedly be touched up before GM, but I think the ethernet jack is flat because 99.9999% of all ethernet and phone jacks are flat, and the effect is not unrealistic. If you intersect a sphere with a plane and slice it in two, then you get the look here - very much like a "Magic 8-Ball" which is all rounded except for one flat side, which also has a bevel.

Having said that, the jack does appear to have very slight curvature, but not nearly that of the sphere.

At least it looks a lot better than the old phone book icon.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
The "Official" Webscreamer Bug List

...

- This is my biggest fear. Some apps are fixed now, abut others are not...weird. BUT, in save panels for applications if you have an Application(such as Mail) in it, you can save into Mail. But it is in the package Contents. This will really scare people who are new users...or even me when i can't find my stuff if I click the wrong button! Yikes!!!!!!!!

Wow - I can't believe you found that one. You have to admit, though, that a user is not likely to select an application as a save-to directory. Should definitely be fixed, though.

- In the DVD Player app, the AppleScript menu logo has the old fashion one, now replaced in all other apps with a new gray one.

That player looks much nicer, although I still have no clue what those buttons on the right are for.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
The "Official" Webscreamer Bug List

Finder Related Problems/Bugs

- NEW Filenames in Finder windows leave little artifact lines where the file was.

I can't confirm this on 3 Macs with 7B68, although I have seen it in previous builds. Possibly it has do to with the text size or size of the icon.

- NEW Some utility file icons are really messed up! (Activity Monitor, Keychain Access, NetInfo Manager, Remove Script Menu, Install Script Menu, Input Method HotKey)

I cannot confirm this either. All of my icons look good on three Macs.

iCal drags as smooth as the other windows on a 450 cube.

Some definite weird things are happening in Safari in this reply box though, as in text above where I am typing is disappearing.

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally posted by zachs:
Is FTP uploading in the Finder fixed yet?

Use an FTP client you fool - you Don't even have to pay

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally posted by SMacTech:

Some definite weird things are happening in Safari in this reply box though, as in text above where I am typing is disappearing.

Does Undo work in Text Fields in Safari yet?

<hopes> I don't suppose they sneaked Contextual Services menu in there in this build </hopes>