[CobraNT]

When running Windozz XP it had a cool feature of being able to restore back to a certain point when things go bad (insert sarcastic remark here..). Is there a similar feature with OS X or does any know of a software package to do this? I am doing a lot of 'playing' with my new PB and want to be able to Undo just in case.

[KidRed]

Yea, in OS X it's called stability. You install it when you install OS X. It's built into to X so you never have to worry about when things go bad.

M$ worked for years trying to get their restore system to work. Thing is, it took them so long because they could never release an OS that worked.

[Adam Betts]

I hope OS X will NEVER have this feature.

They have to add it in XP because they know how bug-ridden XP is.

[ism]

This is a good idea. There isn't anything similar that I'm aware of, definitely not anything included in the OS, there might be something 3rd party.

You best bet is to backup (Carbon copy cloner, deja vu, etc) before a major update or anything else 'risky' you do.

You can always archive and install with your install discs, which isn't painless, but is better than a full re-install.

[osxisfun]

there was a rumor that apple was going to do this (i guess post panther)

it was not called junkyard but something else which i am forgetting ....

[CobraNT]

Well as I said, the only reason I would like this feature is because I am very new to mac and need the ability to Undo anything stupid I do. My PB has only crashed once and it was my own fault for trying to install file & print sharing for MS.

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
I hope OS X will NEVER have this feature.

They have to add it in XP because they know how bug-ridden XP is.

I dunno. Every OS update seems to have problems (see any 10.2.8 thread). A "go back" feature would be really nice if it was built into the OS.

Besides, you can't blame the OS for every problem. Sometimes installing a patch from a third party or even an application causes kernel panics and it would be nice to "go back".

[dopik]

Originally posted by CobraNT:
Well as I said, the only reason I would like this feature is because I am very new to mac and need the ability to Undo anything stupid I do. My PB has only crashed once and it was my own fault for trying to install file & print sharing for MS.

I have been using OS X since the public beta and it has never crashed on me. What did you do for it to happen?

dopik

[MDA]

Originally posted by CobraNT:
When running Windozz XP it had a cool feature of being able to restore back to a certain point when things go bad (insert sarcastic remark here..). Is there a similar feature with OS X or does any know of a software package to do this? I am doing a lot of 'playing' with my new PB and want to be able to Undo just in case.

From what I hear it's also responsible for a big slow down in XP after it's been installed for a while.

MDA

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
I hope OS X will NEVER have this feature.

They have to add it in XP because they know how bug-ridden XP is.

yeah, cause we all know OS X doesnt have any bugs, or any problems that would cause numerous reinstalls .

FYI MS added this feature for people who have kids that constantly screw up their settings and files.

I would welcome this to OS X Glad they picked up the user switching feature too.



Chris

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by MDA:
From what I hear it's also responsible for a big slow down in XP after it's been installed for a while.

MDA

You tend to 'hear' alot of BS about windows. I suggest you take some medication for those anti-MS voices in your head


And to answer this: it doesnt slow anything down, it just requires extra disk space, and the service can be turned off altogether.


Chris

[zachs]

I've had several instances where I had to do an Archive & Install, and a System Restore function would prove to be very useful in that kind of situation. You don't have to re-install all the updates again, either.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

[MDA]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
You tend to 'hear' alot of BS about windows. I suggest you take some medication for those anti-MS voices in your head


And to answer this: it doesnt slow anything down, it just requires extra disk space, and the service can be turned off altogether.


Chris

It actually has nothing to do with voices in my head. It's been happening here at the ad agency I work for with all of the PC's that have had XP installed on them. This comes from the Windows support person here not me. I am lucky enough to have nothing to do with the PC's as I'm the Mac support specialist.

MDA

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
yeah, cause we all know OS X doesnt have any bugs, or any problems that would cause numerous reinstalls .

FYI MS added this feature for people who have kids that constantly screw up their settings and files.

I love it when anyone talk about XP, you come in here and defend XP. I've never seen you admitting that XP is buggy.

You never owned a Mac before so you don't get to decide which features would be better for OS X. You don't have the same experiences as we do. Using it at a computer lab in your college or something does not count.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by MDA:
It actually has nothing to do with voices in my head. It's been happening here at the ad agency I work for with all of the PC's that have had XP installed on them. This comes from the Windows support person here not me. I am lucky enough to have nothing to do with the PC's as I'm the Mac support specialist.

Don't mind kmkkid. He like to mindlessly defend Win XP. He's still angry at the fact that he can't afford a Mac

[brainchild2b]

It might be a good feature if done elegantly. It's actually pretty well done in windows xp despite how it might sound. I think Apple had something in the works called "Junkyard" that was supposed to be in 10.3 it was going to be part of the beos filesystem/rollback type feature.

[zachs]

It'd be easy to do if it was just done as an assistant.

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
I love it when anyone talk about XP, you come in here and defend XP. I've never seen you admitting that XP is buggy.

You never owned a Mac before so you don't get to decide which features would be better for OS X. You don't have the same experiences as we do. Using it at a computer lab in your college or something does not count.

erm, of course XP is buggy. I wouldnt ever claim it wasnt. I'm just sick of people like you and MDA who have almost no experience yet you shoot your mouths off.

As for your personal attck on my money situation, I have more than enough. And I'm willing to bet I have alot more than you.

And your "you don't own a mac" statement, who says I don't? Just because I didnt announce it like it's some miracle?...


Jeesh. Get over yourself.


Chris

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
erm, of course XP is buggy. I wouldnt ever claim it wasnt. I'm just sick of people like you and MDA who have almost no experience yet you shoot your mouths off.

As for your personal attck on my money situation, I have more than enough. And I'm willing to bet I have alot more than you.

And your "you don't own a mac" statement, who says I don't? Just because I didnt announce it like it's some miracle?...

People like me and MDA get to use Win XP everyday at jobs, school, etc. I could say that I have more than enough experience on Win XP and I find it to be extremely buggy and unstable. You're just trying to make XP look good because it is your main OS.

I know for sure that you don't own a Mac. You've made multiples posts in this forum and another forums that you think Mac's price is ridiculous and you won't buy one until they reduce the price. Now you're trying to change the story.

I know a few of your Windows friends and they can back me up about you not owning a Mac. Stop lying please.

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
People like me and MDA get to use Win XP everyday at jobs, school, etc. I could say that I have more than enough experience on Win XP and I find it to be extremely buggy and unstable. You're just trying to make XP look good because it is your main OS.

I know for sure that you don't own a Mac. You've made multiples posts in this forum and another forums that you think Mac's price is ridiculous and you won't buy one until they reduce the price. Now you're trying to change the story.

I know a few of your Windows friends and they can back me up about you not owning a Mac. Stop lying please.

lmao.

Your right I don't own a mac, but I will be getting a brand spanking new dual G5. I have however used Mac's enough to know what they are all about. I'd like you to name some of my "windows using friends" cause I have only one online 'friend' (which is a female and doesnt own a mac). I have aquaintances but thats about it.

I love how I respond to your points, yet you just follow up with personal attacks. Then when I retort, you say I started the attacks. Nice, but it wont work in real life.


Chris

[Adam Betts]

If your G5 is on the way then congratulation I will be getting my Dual 2.0 Ghz G5 anytime soon.

[ApeInTheShell]

Microsoft got the system restore feature from Mac OS 9. Of course if you boot into any version of Windows it gives the dialog to boot up into safe mode and you have a certain number of seconds to decide.
Safe mode is far from what it claims to be and points to one of the worst features of Windows.
The disk clean up preference. I forget how to get there because I avoid it so often. This is the same feature that reminds you every minute that you have run out of disk space and to get rid of things. However, when you run the disk clean up process it tells you there is not enough disk space to run it.
Even if you don't see that message you are sure to wait longer than necessary to empty files. In Mac OS X there is a feature called "Empty Trash". You find the files you don't want, drag and drop them on the trash and it shows a progress bar while it is emptying it. No guess work and no hassle.
If Microsoft gets this feature accomplished than i might use it for more than scanning and writing messages from Windows XP about its troubles.

[RooneyX]

I'd like to have an easy way to rewind to 10.2.6 right now.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
If your G5 is on the way then congratulation I will be getting my Dual 2.0Mhz G5 anytime soon.

Dual 2MHz eh?

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
People like me and MDA get to use Win XP everyday at jobs, school, etc. I could say that I have more than enough experience on Win XP and I find it to be extremely buggy and unstable. You're just trying to make XP look good because it is your main OS.

I know for sure that you don't own a Mac. You've made multiples posts in this forum and another forums that you think Mac's price is ridiculous and you won't buy one until they reduce the price. Now you're trying to change the story.

I know a few of your Windows friends and they can back me up about you not owning a Mac. Stop lying please.

I have a Windows XP Pro computer and a Windows 2003 computer at home in addition to my Dual 450 Mac.

I've never had Windows XP crash on me and Windows 2003 doesn't even flinch regardless of what you throw at it.

Using a PC at school and then commenting on it is like using a Mac at CompUSA and then promptly declaring its garbage. Its not a fair assessment.

My Mac crashes after having a week of uptime, never fails to. And when I say crash I don't just mean the system freezes (which it does sometimes) but it crashes hard...nothing responds, I can't open any apps or close any apps and it just gets worse and worse until the entire system is overcome by a beachball of death. I'm pretty sure something is wrong with the hardware but I don't have the money to buy a new one for a few years.

Both systems are good. I use the Windows computer to surf the web and do Photoshop work (Photoshop is PISS POOR on my Dual 450). And I use my Mac for casual stuff like chatting with friends, light surfing and talking to old friends on KDX.

[MDA]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I have a Windows XP Pro computer and a Windows 2003 computer at home in addition to my Dual 450 Mac.

I've never had Windows XP crash on me and Windows 2003 doesn't even flinch regardless of what you throw at it.

You have a Windows 2003 computer? I didn't know there was such a thing.

MDA

[CobraNT]

"I've never had Windows XP crash on me and Windows 2003 doesn't even flinch regardless of what you throw at it."

Hmmm.....you must only use it for the screensaver.......

I agree, my Mac has been incredible in the month I have owned it. As mentioned I only blew it away once when trying to enable File & Print sharing. All I did was turn F&S on and rebooted. It would not prompt for a login or anything.....just a white/gray lined screen. I re-installed OSX and it has been happy since. I am installing a lot of trial software, mysql, etc. so the roll back feature would be an excellent option for me.

[RooneyX]

Take it easy on the geezer. When I first moved to Macs I hated it. Of course that was OS9 and the 10.0.. Sure it was simple, friendly, personal, etc but boy was it slow and sucky compared to Win2K. I moved over because not only did I want a simpler more personal system but wanted an easy to read display and well handled fonts (I write).

When the guy sees Panther or actually spends some time with a new Mac he won't look back. A cousin of mine runs the networks at GSK and he bought my TiBook off me. After a week he stopped using PCs. He told his fellow staff at GSK that if the company moved to OSX they'd all be out of a job because networking is too easy to set up.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by MDA:
You have a Windows 2003 computer? I didn't know there was such a thing.

MDA

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/default.mspx

Educate yourself.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by CobraNT:
"I've never had Windows XP crash on me and Windows 2003 doesn't even flinch regardless of what you throw at it."

Hmmm.....you must only use it for the screensaver.......

Nah, I use the 2k3 computer for IIS. And my parents use it as a second computer incase my sister is on the XP one.

The XP computer does everything from run screensavers to playing games and so on and so forth. Basic stuff for a home computer.

The only time the PC crashed was when I tried to overclock and it overheated and shut itself off...don't know if thats an official crash though.

I know Win 9x is bad. In fact, its downright awful, but XP is not bad at all (apart from Luna ). Some stuff about XP pisses me off (like how freaking hard it is to format a drive that hasn't been formatted yet), but then again, some stuff really makes me upset about X (how the system font is so goddamn large and unchangeable). Every system has its quirks..

[Mike S.]

Forget a "system restore" feature, all Apple needs is give Installer.app back it's ability to uninstall whatever it put in.

It knows what it put where based on the info provided in a package, it would just need to back up and compress the old versions into a package when it installs the new stuff.

If there is a problem (like the 10.2.8 issues) the user just opens the receipt and selects uninstall, boom all done.

The worst part is that NeXT already had it and Apple removed it in OS X. Well, they had the uninstall ability for sure, I'm not sure if it actually kept the old files but how hard could it be to make it happen?

NeXT even GZipped the things to save space when it was done.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
Nah, I use the 2k3 computer for IIS. And my parents use it as a second computer incase my sister is on the XP one.

The XP computer does everything from run screensavers to playing games and so on and so forth. Basic stuff for a home computer.

The only time the PC crashed was when I tried to overclock and it overheated and shut itself off...don't know if thats an official crash though.

I know Win 9x is bad. In fact, its downright awful, but XP is not bad at all (apart from Luna ). Some stuff about XP pisses me off (like how freaking hard it is to format a drive that hasn't been formatted yet), but then again, some stuff really makes me upset about X (how the system font is so goddamn large and unchangeable). Every system has its quirks..

Well, on an iMac, at 800x600, it would seem large. On a 23" Cinema (or even my 12" PB at 1024x768), it's perfect.

XP simply blows, it's a god-awful mess of an OS and even their own coders don't even know how some of it's internals work. They CAN'T fix it, they don't know how.

I have family and friends calling me almost every day to fix their XP nightmares. It's gotten to the point now that I just say no and tell them to call the M$ support line. They think it's wonderful when their PC doesn't crash but once a day, and are dumbfounded that I never have to restart my OS X machines. Hell, I haven't even shut my 12" PB down since I bought it in March, and I've only restarted it when performing updates.

I don't care who defends it, IMO, XP's as bad as 95 or 98. Garbage. 2000 Pro was the closest M$ ever got to greatness, but as always, they found a way to screw it up. Micro$oft, the endless pursuit of mediocrity.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Well, on an iMac, at 800x600, it would seem large. On a 23" Cinema (or even my 12" PB at 1024x768), it's perfect.

I use a 17" CRT running at 1280x1024 and its still large (for me at least). Did you know that the menus are almost twice as large as OS 9 menus for the same crap? Its also absurd to say that in order for the OS to look OK size wise you need to run it on a $2000 monitor.

[stevesnj]

The coolest feature is that it boots fast...probrobly faster than a G5 Double Deuce, The Xp machine at work boots in less than 30 sec. to the login screen even after a crash.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I use a 17" CRT running at 1280x1024 and its still large (for me at least). Did you know that the menus are almost twice as large as OS 9 menus for the same crap? Its also absurd to say that in order for the OS to look OK size wise you need to run it on a $2000 monitor.

No, on my 12" PB it looks OK (actually, it looks great). On the Cinema, it looks perfect.

Besides. if it bothers you that much get Silk.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I use a 17" CRT running at 1280x1024 and its still large (for me at least). Did you know that the menus are almost twice as large as OS 9 menus for the same crap? Its also absurd to say that in order for the OS to look OK size wise you need to run it on a $2000 monitor.

Come on now, OS X's menu is only two or three pixels larger than OS 9.

Don't exaggerate

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Come on now, OS X's menu is only two or three pixels larger than OS 9.

Don't exaggerate

Bah, fine not DOUBLE. Here is a pic that I took in January of 2002 (thanks to spl for saving this picture).



BTW Adam, I really like your new sig, looks much better than the bulletin board.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by stevesnj:
The coolest feature is that it boots fast...probrobly faster than a G5 Double Deuce, The Xp machine at work boots in less than 30 sec. to the login screen even after a crash.

Yeah, it helps that it boots so quickly, seeing as how often most people have to restart it.

BTW, on the 1.8GHz G5 at work, from when the apple first appears on boot up until it gets to a useable desktop, it takes 28 seconds.

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Yeah, it helps that it boots so quickly, seeing as how often most people have to restart it.

BTW, on the 1.8GHz G5 at work, from when the apple first appears on boot up until it gets to a useable desktop, it takes 28 seconds.

Coool!

The brandest newest macs to hit the street are faster to boot up, yippee!

Some sort of restore would be welcome to give users control when the numerous OS updates go bad. It seems there is always a thread on here about 10.2.? messing up a network or other peripheral. Our department had to reformat all the macs because the new Java implementation didn't work with one of our publishing software. Restore would have made things easier, or waiting a year? Perhaps Apple can give it their touch like the fast user switching.

DRM

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
Bah, fine not DOUBLE. Here is a pic that I took in January of 2002 (thanks to spl for saving this picture).

http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~upadhya/ne.jpg

As we get bigger screen resolution, interface widgets will get bigger too. This is as same as printing.. If you want to print a letter size of any image in high quality, the image will need to be 3x bigger.

I agree that the contextual menu is little too big though. In Apple's DVD Studio Pro, they're unbelievable tiny

[khufuu]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
yeah, cause we all know OS X doesnt have any bugs, or any problems that would cause numerous reinstalls .

FYI MS added this feature for people who have kids that constantly screw up their settings and files.

Chris

You mean adults who screw up the computer and the kids then have to fix it.

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by khufuu:
You mean adults who screw up the computer and the kids then have to fix it.

Yeah thats exactly what I meant.

Why some mac users in this thread disagree with a restore feature is beyond me. Even if your mac IS perfect and never has a problem, wouldnt it be great to have restore for the people that do have these issues?, or if in the unholy helldriven of an event, you do?

Come off it, some people just want to argue.


Chris

[Ken Masters]

IF you never ever had a crash on OS X, then you never really have used you computer to its stress limits,
"Or even Virtual PC will do it for you!"

I push my computer to its limits, Something I do for a living!!!
And if OS X doesn't crash, it slows down to a halt, rebooting, processing and its uptime is laughable, it like performs at 486speeds.

Roll back is an ingenious idea; I wish I OS X had it. This way I wouldn't have to reinstall everything every 3-4 months.

I have a separate drive for my OS, so it’s simple.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
Why some mac users in this thread disagree with a restore feature is beyond me. Even if your mac IS perfect and never has a problem, wouldnt it be great to have restore for the people that do have these issues?, or if in the unholy helldriven of an event, you do?

Come off it, some people just want to argue.

Or you don't want to understand why this feature is not needed in Mac OS X. You haven't got your first Mac so it makes sense that you didn't understand yet

BTW, I happened to notice that you like to argue too. Pot, Kettle, etc

[Brass]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
Come off it, some people just want to argue.

No they don't!

[Catfish_Man]

I seriously can't believe this thread. Someone points out a nice feature of Windows (and no, OSX is not a completely stable OS) and people jump all over them. Most everybody here agrees that Windows isn't as good as OSX, but the attitude that anything related to it is automatically evil just seems weird to me. I think Windows has several nice features: fast user switching (although Panther's copy of this feature kicks the XP version's arse ), this "undo" feature, and probably one or two other things I don't know about.

<disclaimer> To prevent the inevitable "MS-lover" flames as seen earlier in this thread: I'm a Cocoa programmer, have been using Macs my entire life, and plan to keep using them and developing for them</disclaimer>

[JellyBeen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
I seriously can't believe this thread. Someone points out a nice feature of Windows (and no, OSX is not a completely stable OS) and people jump all over them. Most everybody here agrees that Windows isn't as good as OSX, but the attitude that anything related to it is automatically evil just seems weird to me. I think Windows has several nice features: fast user switching (although Panther's copy of this feature kicks the XP version's arse ), this "undo" feature, and probably one or two other things I don't know about.

<disclaimer> To prevent the inevitable "MS-lover" flames as seen earlier in this thread: I'm a Cocoa programmer, have been using Macs my entire life, and plan to keep using them and developing for them</disclaimer> [/QU



What was that small company that had it for OS9? I can't remember the name...anyway, in OS9 it was possible to go backwards and undo the mess that had occured, Last time i heard they were supposed to make an OS X version...

[Spliff]

There used to be a utility that could do this for OS 9. I believe it was called Rewind. Maybe the makers of Rewind are working on a version for OS X.

[MDA]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/default.mspx

Educate yourself.

I know about Windows 2003 Server. I thought maybe they had released a version of XP I didn't know about. I guess the next version is Longhorn in 2005, or 2006, or ...

MDA

[redJag]

Originally posted by CobraNT:
When running Windozz XP it had a cool feature of being able to restore back to a certain point when things go bad (insert sarcastic remark here..). Is there a similar feature with OS X or does any know of a software package to do this? I am doing a lot of 'playing' with my new PB and want to be able to Undo just in case.

I'd agree that the concept is a good one. The implementation..not so great. The environment..just plain awful. I'm a PC tech at my university, and System Restore is the biggest P.I.T.A. out of any Windows feature.

System Restore..
• backs up viruses and keeps them safe (you can't delete things from System Restore unless you're in Safe Mode), which confuses users. Also, if they DO restore, they get their viruses back even if they cleaned them previously.

• uses a *lot* of disk space. A very large amount, and it only takes up more and more as it is kept on. This in itself will lead to the slow-down of the computer, as it loses paging space to System Restore (not everyone has as big a harddrive as you or me)

• it actually does slow down the computer. You can't just duplicate all the "important" aspects of the system without using resources. The older the system, the greater the effect, obviously (not everyone has as new a system as you or me)
--

Those are my three main gripes about it. I think it is a good idea, for Windows and Mac OS X. I hope that if Apple does implement it, they do a better job about it than Microsoft is currently doing.

For the record:
733Mhz G4, 1GB RAM, Radeon 8500Pro
--Mac OS 9.2.2, Mac OS 10.2.6
2.4Ghz P4, 768MB RAM, Radeon 9000Pro
--Windows XP, Windows 98, RedHat Linux
AMD XP 2600+, 512MB RAM, GeForceTi4600
--Windows 2003 Server