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winwintoo · Oct 8, 2003, 09:05 AM

I'm still using PhotoShop 6 (which doesn't run under OS X) and if I upgrade to Panther, will I still be able to use it??

Thanks M

gorickey · Oct 8, 2003, 09:07 AM

"Classic" compatability is still part of Panther...OS 9 is NOT included...

Eriamjh · Oct 8, 2003, 10:49 AM

OS9 as a boot CD... no.

"Classic" is and will be for several years.
Classic is everything OS9 was (OSX incompatibilities excluded) except it must always run from inside OSX.

Ron Goodman · Oct 8, 2003, 11:17 AM

The only real difference between Classic and native OS 9 is that applications running under Classic don't have direct access to the hardware.

Eriamjh · Oct 8, 2003, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Ron Goodman:
The only real difference between Classic and native OS 9 is that applications running under Classic don't have direct access to the hardware.

Correct.

ZackS · Oct 8, 2003, 12:07 PM

No, half correct. My USB scanner can scan from classic (only). X can make the bridge for 9 to access hardware directly.

mitchell_pgh · Oct 8, 2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Ron Goodman:
The only real difference between Classic and native OS 9 is that applications running under Classic don't have direct access to the hardware.

That is why OS 9 (classic) will bomb and OS X will keep on chugging...

Eriamjh · Oct 8, 2003, 06:47 PM

Actually, I forgot to address to question.

"Classic" does NOT come with Panther. If you want Classic (to run any OS9 program) you must install 9.1 (or higher) from an install CD (or dupe it from another Mac). If you are still using 9.0 or 8.6, you are screwed.

However, the good news is Apple is once again offering OS9.2 for $19.95 for purchasers of Panther just like they did Jaguar.

Here's the form: http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/...de_Form_v3.pdf

So for $138.95, you can have both.

And actually, only OS9 programs that talk to hardware in certain ways will bomb under OSX. Serial ports, USB ports, and IR ports have drivers written to allow this. It was the only way Apple could ease the transition.

Ganesha · Oct 8, 2003, 07:57 PM

Apple really need to rethink how Classic installs. Soon we will have no machines that can boot an OS 9 install CD. Yea yea, software restore, but that means you have to upgrade your OS.

froejoe · Oct 8, 2003, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:

However, the good news is Apple is once again offering OS9.2 for $19.95 for purchasers of Panther just like they did Jaguar.

Here's the form: http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/...de_Form_v3.pdf

So for $138.95, you can have both.

Does anyone know if this is 9.2.0, 9.2.1, or 9.2.2?

Oneota · Oct 8, 2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by froejoe:
Does anyone know if this is 9.2.0, 9.2.1, or 9.2.2?

9.2.1, I think. I've never seen a 9.2.2 retail CD. The only 9.2.2 install CD I'm aware of were Software Install CDs that came with new Macs back when there was a Restore CD and a separate Install CD.

froejoe · Oct 8, 2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Oneota:
9.2.1, I think. I've never seen a 9.2.2 retail CD. The only 9.2.2 install CD I'm aware of were Software Install CDs that came with new Macs back when there was a Restore CD and a separate Install CD.

So, the question arises. How does one install 9.2.x on a machine that doesn't support booting from the OS 9 CD that Apple currently sells?

Eriamjh · Oct 9, 2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by froejoe:
So, the question arises. How does one install 9.2.x on a machine that doesn't support booting from the OS 9 CD that Apple currently sells?

Hmmm. Good point. You can't install it from OSX because you wouldn't have OS9 installed to run the installer. And you can't boot the CD to OS9.

Maybe I was wrong about "Classic" not coming with Panther. Now I'm confused.

lookmark · Oct 9, 2003, 12:15 PM

I believe that new machines that won't boot into OS 9 come with an option to install Classic from the Software Restore disc(s). It's called "Classic Support", which I assume installs the OS 9 System Folder onto the root level of your HD.

So that $20 OS 9 option, if I'm right, is for the small (?) amount of people who using OS 8.5 or less, who purchase OS X and upgrade their machines but still need Classic support. So you can upgrade your system to OS 9 before upgrading to X.

Whew.

froejoe · Oct 9, 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by lookmark:
I believe that new machines that won't boot into OS 9 come with an option to install Classic from the Software Restore disc(s). It's called "Classic Support", which I assume installs the OS 9 System Folder onto the root level of your HD.

So that $20 OS 9 option, if I'm right, is for the small (?) amount of people who using OS 8.5 or less, who purchase OS X and upgrade their machines but still need Classic support. So you can upgrade your system to OS 9 before upgrading to X.

Whew.

Yes, you're right about the restore discs. But, let's assume you're not in the group you described. It's an interesting problem to solve. The only solution I can come up with is to put the newer machine into FireWire target mode and then use an older machine to install OS 9 on the target machine. Then, install X and have it point to the new OS 9 installation.

Anyone have another solution...perhaps one that doesn't involve two machines connected via FireWire?

SomeToast · Oct 9, 2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by froejoe:
Yes, you're right about the restore discs. But, let's assume you're not in the group you described. It's an interesting problem to solve.

What group is that? If you have the OS X install discs you have the ability to install Classic, regardless of whether your computer is capable of booting into OS 9 or not.

Note: For the Classic environment, these computers include a Mac OS 9 System Folder on the Mac OS X volume. If this System Folder is deleted, it can be restored using the Restore discs that came with the computer. For more information, see technical document 106294, "Mac OS X: How to Reinstall Mac OS 9 or Recover From a Software Restore".

froejoe · Oct 9, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
What group is that? If you have the OS X install discs you have the ability to install Classic, regardless of whether your computer is capable of booting into OS 9 or not.

That isn't the issue. If you buy a machine with OS X pre-installed, it includes the Classic environment and you can extract it from the system restore disc to install it on a separate partition, if you want to.

I'm asking about the retail version of OS X, which doesn't include Classic, so you buy the OS 9 disc mentioned earlier in this thread. Now, let's assume you want to insall X and 9 on separate partitions, but the machine you're using isn't OS 9 bootable. How would you provide Classic support in that case?

parsec_kadets · Oct 9, 2003, 03:52 PM

And what they're trying to tell you is you can use the software restore disk to just install OS 9 without formatting the drive or touching your OS X install. Since you have OS 9 on your software restore disk, why would you go out and buy another copy? This is a non-issue. The only people who would need to buy OS 9 are those who bought their computer back in the OS 8 days and never upgraded.

Edit: If your computer can boot OS 9, then this is moot. If you have one of the new macs that don't boot into 9, this is moot too because you have OS 9 on the software restore CD and there is no reason for you to buy it separately anyway.

MusicalTone · Oct 9, 2003, 05:15 PM

What about if, like me your Mac has OS9 and OSX (Jag) already installed - alowing me to dual boot. What happens when I upgrade to Panther? Will it trash my OS9 installation and only provide the aforementioned classic support from the restore disk? Or will I be given a choice at install as to whether or not to remove OS9?

Eriamjh · Oct 9, 2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
And what they're trying to tell you is you can use the software restore disk to just install OS 9 without formatting the drive or touching your OS X install. Since you have OS 9 on your software restore disk, why would you go out and buy another copy? This is a non-issue. The only people who would need to buy OS 9 are those who bought their computer back in the OS 8 days and never upgraded.

Edit: If your computer can boot OS 9, then this is moot. If you have one of the new macs that don't boot into 9, this is moot too because you have OS 9 on the software restore CD and there is no reason for you to buy it separately anyway.

Irrelevant. System restore disks get lost. Computers get sold. HDs get wiped.

How does one install OS9 for Classic onto an OSX boot only machine?

voodoo · Oct 9, 2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Irrelevant. System restore disks get lost. Computers get sold. HDs get wiped.

How does one install OS9 for Classic onto an OSX boot only machine?

Exactly. I would be very interested to know.

Millennium · Oct 9, 2003, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by ZackS:
No, half correct. My USB scanner can scan from classic (only). X can make the bridge for 9 to access hardware directly.

No, still correct, actually.

Applications which use standard drivers or APIs in OS9 will usually still work in Classic, because OSX can patch drivers through to IOKit.. It's applications which talk to hardware without going through standard APIs or drivers which have problems. Examples of this would be things like drive-repair programs.

Detrius · Oct 9, 2003, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by lookmark:
I believe that new machines that won't boot into OS 9 come with an option to install Classic from the Software Restore disc(s). It's called "Classic Support", which I assume installs the OS 9 System Folder onto the root level of your HD.

So that $20 OS 9 option, if I'm right, is for the small (?) amount of people who using OS 8.5 or less, who purchase OS X and upgrade their machines but still need Classic support. So you can upgrade your system to OS 9 before upgrading to X.

Whew.

A few things:

You would actually be surprised at the number of people that are upgrading from 8.x to OS X. It happens on a regular basis and keeps me in my job.

Also, you have to install 9.0 and 9.1 before you can upgrade 8.x to 9.2. Weird. I know.

Big Mac · Oct 9, 2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by MusicalTone:
What about if, like me your Mac has OS9 and OSX (Jag) already installed - alowing me to dual boot. What happens when I upgrade to Panther? Will it trash my OS9 installation and only provide the aforementioned classic support from the restore disk? Or will I be given a choice at install as to whether or not to remove OS9?

No, you have nothing to worry about. The Macs that can't boot into OS 9 can't do so because their new hardware is incompatible with OS 9. That has no affect on your machine's ability to boot into OS 9.

If one wanted to partition a drive and install OS X on one partition, OS 9 on another, the easiest way would be to pull an OS 9 system folder from another drive and stick it on the partition.