[Badwisdom]

And no this is not a flame. I am a 6 month old PC switcher and own a G4 1Ghz Ti Powerbook with 1 Gig RAM and bought a new 17' Rev B stock about three weeks ago. Came installed with 10.2.7 and worked great. Got Panther GM through a friends ADC account and installed it yesterday on the 17 inch PB. I had seen 7B54 and thought it looked amazing. New features were amazing (expose etc...) and it was fast. Extremely fast.

As i am typing this on my PB 17', i cant but feel very let down with the last version, 7B85. Assuming this is the retail version, and everything points to this being true, let me point out all the three biggest problems i have had during these last 24 hours of intense usage.

- Panther is slow. I get to login window fast enough, but then everything is sluggish. When i select the user i want to login with, i get two seconds lag. I get a beachball and at least 15 seconds to login and be able to use the desktop. When i open a finder application and choose applications i get a 2 second lag. Mail.app and safari are slow to open, at least 5 to 6 seconds each, which is as fast as i can get them on my PB 15 Ti which is still under 10.2.8. My 1.33Ghz and improved motherboard architecture are just 'not there'.

- network is AWFUL. Sometimes i get internet connection and cant see other windows computers. Sometimes i get internet connection but wont see any computers on the network. And then again i might just see my other powerbook but cant access the PCs. Its just a case of boot and hope i get lucky.

- lots of random beachballing. Sometimes the preference window will slow down for 10 seconds with a beachball logo for no apparent reason. Then i close an app and it takes 10 seconds to close. The OS crashes half the time when powering off, and i need to hold the power button to switch it off.

Anyone have a similar experience ? I want to like panther, expose is great, and so are all the changes, but i cant take this sluggishness much longer.

Cheers
BadWisdom

[greener]

Switch back to Windows, PLEASE!

[sbjordal]

You're bitching about an unreleased product that you aquired illegally.
Other than that, did you reformat the drive before you installed or did you upgrade?

[TheDisaster]

I have some gripes with it, but no OS is without any bugs. I don't really have any of the problems you noted, but there are some glitches with the dock listing folder contents, connecting to a machine on your network is kind of odd, and disconnecting from it is awkward some times. I have noticed better speeds, so maybe you have a bad install or something..? I haven't noticed any critical problems, but I can't wait until about 10.3.2, because I think that's when I'll be using the best rounded OS I could ever imagine. Hang in there...

[theolein]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
And no this is not a flame. I am a 6 month old PC switcher and own a G4 1Ghz Ti Powerbook with 1 Gig RAM and bought a new 17' Rev B stock about three weeks ago. Came installed with 10.2.7 and worked great. Got Panther GM through a friends ADC account and installed it yesterday on the 17 inch PB. I had seen 7B54 and thought it looked amazing. New features were amazing (expose etc...) and it was fast. Extremely fast.

As i am typing this on my PB 17', i cant but feel very let down with the last version, 7B85. Assuming this is the retail version, and everything points to this being true, let me point out all the three biggest problems i have had during these last 24 hours of intense usage.

- Panther is slow. I get to login window fast enough, but then everything is sluggish. When i select the user i want to login with, i get two seconds lag. I get a beachball and at least 15 seconds to login and be able to use the desktop. When i open a finder application and choose applications i get a 2 second lag. Mail.app and safari are slow to open, at least 5 to 6 seconds each, which is as fast as i can get them on my PB 15 Ti which is still under 10.2.8. My 1.33Ghz and improved motherboard architecture are just 'not there'.

- network is AWFUL. Sometimes i get internet connection and cant see other windows computers. Sometimes i get internet connection but wont see any computers on the network. And then again i might just see my other powerbook but cant access the PCs. Its just a case of boot and hope i get lucky.

- lots of random beachballing. Sometimes the preference window will slow down for 10 seconds with a beachball logo for no apparent reason. Then i close an app and it takes 10 seconds to close. The OS crashes half the time when powering off, and i need to hold the power button to switch it off.

Anyone have a similar experience ? I want to like panther, expose is great, and so are all the changes, but i cant take this sluggishness much longer.

Cheers
BadWisdom

I haven't used any of the Panther builds, so I can't really comment, but I was under the impression, taken from comments on this board, that Panther was quite a bit more responsive than Jaguar. Are you sure you did the install correctly (not that it would be easy to do it "incorrectly" but still)? Did you install over the older system? Did you do an upgrade to 10.2.8 first before upgrading? Have you asked anyone else with a PB17" who is on the dev list if they've had similar problems?

There are a number of things you could try first, perhaps before condemning it outright.

[Adam Betts]

You want to complain more than finding a solution to fix it.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
And no this is not a flame. I am a 6 month old PC switcher and own a G4 1Ghz Ti Powerbook with 1 Gig RAM and bought a new 17' Rev B stock about three weeks ago. Came installed with 10.2.7 and worked great. Got Panther GM through a friends ADC account and installed it yesterday on the 17 inch PB. I had seen 7B54 and thought it looked amazing. New features were amazing (expose etc...) and it was fast. Extremely fast.

As i am typing this on my PB 17', i cant but feel very let down with the last version, 7B85. Assuming this is the retail version, and everything points to this being true, let me point out all the three biggest problems i have had during these last 24 hours of intense usage.

- Panther is slow. I get to login window fast enough, but then everything is sluggish. When i select the user i want to login with, i get two seconds lag. I get a beachball and at least 15 seconds to login and be able to use the desktop. When i open a finder application and choose applications i get a 2 second lag. Mail.app and safari are slow to open, at least 5 to 6 seconds each, which is as fast as i can get them on my PB 15 Ti which is still under 10.2.8. My 1.33Ghz and improved motherboard architecture are just 'not there'.

- network is AWFUL. Sometimes i get internet connection and cant see other windows computers. Sometimes i get internet connection but wont see any computers on the network. And then again i might just see my other powerbook but cant access the PCs. Its just a case of boot and hope i get lucky.

- lots of random beachballing. Sometimes the preference window will slow down for 10 seconds with a beachball logo for no apparent reason. Then i close an app and it takes 10 seconds to close. The OS crashes half the time when powering off, and i need to hold the power button to switch it off.

Anyone have a similar experience ? I want to like panther, expose is great, and so are all the changes, but i cant take this sluggishness much longer.

Cheers
BadWisdom

Wow. That's one f***ed up install of 10.3 you've got there. I don't know what's wrong, but that's NOT normal. (posted from 7B85)

[Badwisdom]

no i wont be going back to windows, but probably to 10.2.8 and wont be spending $129 for panther. I have no qualms using this 'illegal' copy if you can call it that, as i was ready to buy it when it came out. I wanted to try it out on my machine beforehand, and my friends ADC account allowed me to do so.

I did a fresh install on a completely empty and formatted hard drive. Ill probably try and install it again, but if it still under performs like this or randomly works then back to 10.2.8 i go until all these issues have been addressed.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
no i wont be going back to windows, but probably to 10.2.8 and wont be spending $129 for panther. I have no qualms using this 'illegal' copy if you can call it that, as i was ready to buy it when it came out. I wanted to try it out on my machine beforehand, and my friends ADC account allowed me to do so.

I did a fresh install on a completely empty and formatted hard drive. Ill probably try and install it again, but if it still under performs like this or randomly works then back to 10.2.8 i go until all these issues have been addressed.

You're doing something wrong or your hardware has problems.

[Badwisdom]

i am more disappointed than anything. Maybe there is something wrong with my install. I will try to install again and see if that solves anything.

Im just so surprised that ive got this kind of performance when i was expecting so much more. I feel i did everything right for it to work perfectly, and yet it is far from perfect. Very frustrated i guess

[graffix]

Switch back to Windows, PLEASE!

Dude... two words for you...
Shut. Up.

You're bitching about an unreleased product that you aquired illegally.
Other than that, did you reformat the drive before you installed or did you upgrade?

So it's fine for people to sing praises of Panther in any number of threads here (all acquired illegally of course), but somebody states their disappointment and you throw their methods of acquisition in their face? Gimme a break...
And for the second part of your reply, there should be NO reason that an 'upgrade' install shouldn't work perfectly... why people suddenly think that a reformat and reinstall is the way to upgrade your OS is beyond me... in fact we used to tease PC users about that very same fact.
Next it'll be "Oh, did you hop on one leg with a dead chicken under each arm while humming a few bars of 'Amazing Grace' while you installed?"

Personally, I've had a good experience with Panther so far but my god... some of you guys' knee-jerk reactions to anything somebody else says is just immature... which is why I hardly ever post here.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
i am more disappointed than anything. Maybe there is something wrong with my install. I will try to install again and see if that solves anything.

Im just so surprised that ive got this kind of performance when i was expecting so much more. I feel i did everything right for it to work perfectly, and yet it is far from perfect. Very frustrated i guess

make sure you do a clean install. wipe the hard drive.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by graffix:
Dude... two words for you...
Shut. Up.


So it's fine for people to sing praises of Panther in any number of threads here (all acquired illegally of course), but somebody states their disappointment and you throw their methods of acquisition in their face? Gimme a break...
And for the second part of your reply, there should be NO reason that an 'upgrade' install shouldn't work perfectly... why people suddenly think that a reformat and reinstall is the way to upgrade your OS is beyond me... in fact we used to tease PC users about that very same fact.
Next it'll be "Oh, did you hop on one leg with a dead chicken under each arm while humming a few bars of 'Amazing Grace' while you installed?"

Personally, I've had a good experience with Panther so far but my god... some of you guys' knee-jerk reactions to anything somebody else says is just immature... which is why I hardly ever post here.

Agreed. The guy needs help with his system (or at least info that it's not normal), not insults.

[BurpetheadX]

Back up your data, reformat, and install Panther. All will then be well. OS & Network optimization are two areas Apple put a lot of time into.

[LeeG]

I can't believe this isn't a problem either with your hardware or your install. I have 7b85 running on my 12" 1Ghz, and when I use the other macs still running jaguar, I am bumming. Panther is really nice, fast, and stable.

Reinstall, and give us your impressions.

Lee

[RooneyX]

Please let the guy have an opinion.

I'm divided over the new networking. I love the way I don't have to use Connect To Server and then mount a volume on the desktop but the current version of Panther has some bugs. Files on the network disappear when clicked on, also if a file is open on another computer and you copy a folder containing that file to your computer, that file won't be copied until it is closed on the other system. Annoying.

I have the look of labels in Column view but that's OK because I have Labels X. Maybe when Panther comes out Unsanity will release the updates at the same time.

I find the whole system more responsive. Graphics move faster, DVD playback and iTunes uses less CPU. Haven't tested gaming yet.

I heard apps launch faster but after seeing Panther in action it wasn't that much better, a little. Boot time is much faster.

Also, configuring the system is much nicer in Panther. Easier than Jaguar or Windows. I love the way the Sysprefs have been rearranged and grouped. That's how it should always have been.

The GUI is far more consistent. Expose is really nice. Font rendering is better but I suspect some people will differ on that.

The Finder itself I've gotten used to since first seeing it. But I liked Jaguar's Finder. That whole shelf on the side means little to me because I was putting folders in the Dock. But it seems more multithreaded now and doesn't stall on you.

The live searching in the Finder is slower than when it was demonstrated several months ago. But there still isn't anything like it in Jaguar and Windows. It will only get faster.

It's really the best OS in the world. There's the odd networking bug mentioned above but otherwise everything is a bit better or a lot better.

It's an essential upgrade, I think.

[Badwisdom]

Could anyone out there time how long it takes them to lauch the following apps using Panther 7B85? It would help me determine if my system really has a problem or if im just expecting too much :

- imovie (6 secs)
- mail (5 secs)
- safari (5 secs)
- iphoto (4 secs)
- iTunes (6 secs)

Please give me times of first launch only. Thanks a lot. (my times are the ones in parenthesis)

[Badwisdom]

oh and thanks for all the helpful and well mannered people on this board

[thePurpleGiant]

By the way guys - he didn't get this copy illegally, sa don't rag on him for that. ADC Select accounts allow you to have 3 keys so you can install it on up to 3 machines. Very handy in an office setting where you want to test your copy with someone other than yourself.

Sorry to hear about your problem mate. That isn't normal. I risk sounding like providing a Windows solution - but do you have access to an external Hard Drive? if so, I recommend backing up your files and then formatting and doing a clean install of Panther. It will be faster than Jaguar.

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Please give me times of first launch only. Thanks a lot. (my times are the ones in parenthesis)

May I ask why you don't simply leave your applications open? it seems that you place a lot of focus on login time and application startup time. These are things that I couldn't even comment on normally, since I restart perhaps every 2 months, and rarely need to quit an application.

therefore my perception of speed is based on responsiveness, not one-off tasks such as login and program launch times.

[rhogue islander]

I performed an archive and install of 7b85 over 10.2.8 and do not have any of the issues you've described.

I am a little disappointed that I am not getting the speed boost that others reported using earlier builds but nonetheless have found that it is about 10% faster than 10.2.8 on my machine, a dual G5. I benchmarked with quake3 and xbench to reach this conclusion. It does indeed feel 'snappier' as well.

Just out of curiosity, I performed a second installation, a clean install, on a blank partition, just to be sure. The results were the same.

[Badwisdom]

well somehow i feel that if application launch is slower under Panther than Jaguar on my PB, then there is something wrong..... i mean how can Panther give speed increases across the board as everyone seems to say, but takes applications longer to launch ? that doesnt really makes sense to me.

[thePurpleGiant]

islander dude - I noticed that it was in fact the slower machines that gained the biggest speed boost in panther. In particular, a 600mhz iBook felt twice as fast as Jaguar, yet a 1ghz TiBook felt about 25% more responsive. I haven't tried on a Dual G5, but the single G5 (1.8) seemd marginally more responsive. However - the G5 was already instant in most tasks anyway. To improve on this would be hard.

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
well somehow i feel that if application launch is slower under Panther than Jaguar on my PB, then there is something wrong..... i mean how can Panther give speed increases across the board as everyone seems to say, but takes applications longer to launch ? that doesnt really makes sense to me.

I still feel you should try the reformat if you get a chance - I haven't noticed any speed decreases in application launch times. in Panther. Some are faster (Mail), some are about the same (Safari). Some are much better (Photoshop).

In my experience that is.

[gorgonzola]

OK, we've had a LOT of threads like this in the last several weeks and months, and we frequently get posts of a certain sort that we are really trying to discourage.

A lot of Windows switchers come here to either post comments or suggestions of a certain kind, and in most cases, there is absolutely no reason why they should be met with such hostility. This is the kind of thing that gives Mac users a bad name.

These are the kind of posts that SHOULD NOT BE POSTED. If you're going to post something like this, just leave the thread and don't. It's not wanted.

Originally posted by greener:
Switch back to Windows, PLEASE!

Mac OS X is not perfect. Panther has bugs. So does every other piece of Apple software and every piece of software on the planet. If he's pointing out some things he finds poorly done in some version of Mac OS X, "Switch back to Windows" gets the award for the #1 bad response. I've seen this posted in several threads where people were criticizing something about Mac OS X -- please stop doing it. If the software really is good, then there should be something you can suggest that might help him make it work better.

Originally posted by sbjordal:
You're bitching about an unreleased product that you aquired illegally.

While people sometimes do complain about things in situations like this, this kind of post is not really necessary in this case. First of all, he got it off ADC, and people with ADC accounts get a number of seed keys that they're allowed to share. It's entirely possible that he got the build legally. All that said, Panther is GM now. Whether or not it's been released isn't even the point...it's done, he got a copy, and he's posting some impression. Let it be. And finally, people frequently post all the things they like about Panther (from pirated builds), and they're lauded constantly. Let's not have a double standard.

Originally posted by AdamBetts:
You want to complain more than finding a solution to fix it.

If he was just trying to complain, he wouldn't have bothered to be as polite as he was. While he could have improved the tone of his post, few posts are perfect. Cut people some slack. He explicitly asked whether other people had had similar experiences or whether it was just him. That's not unreasonable.

And this is exactly the kind of thing we want to not happen:

Originally posted by graffix:
Personally, I've had a good experience with Panther so far but my god... some of you guys' knee-jerk reactions to anything somebody else says is just immature... which is why I hardly ever post here.

That's exactly it. When people are posting information about pirated builds (dozens of people), they're profusely thanked for informing the community. When people sing praises of some build they downloaded from somewhere, people post things like, "Great post. Good to hear that Panther is coming along well." When someone says that networking is a little screwy on his install..."GO BACK TO WINDOWS! PLEASE!"

I think I've said my piece, but I really don't want to see this kind of stuff again...as graffix said, it's really immature, and it's happened too frequently now.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Could anyone out there time how long it takes them to lauch the following apps using Panther 7B85? It would help me determine if my system really has a problem or if im just expecting too much :

- imovie (6 secs)
- mail (5 secs)
- safari (5 secs)
- iphoto (4 secs)
- iTunes (6 secs)

Please give me times of first launch only. Thanks a lot. (my times are the ones in parenthesis)

iMovie (5 seconds)
Mail (2 seconds)
Safari (2 seconds)
iPhoto (5 seconds)
iTunes (5 seconds)

Please keep in mind that the very first time you launch the apps from a fresh reboot, they will be slower opening up; however, everytime there after, the application will open up faster. That's Unix standard behavior, the whole entire OS is like that actually in several different ways and forms.

P.S. Oh yeah, this is on a TiBook 667 DVI...and "Archive/Install" of Panther...

[Souljah]

I've done an upgrade install and a wipe clean install...both have none of the problems you describe except for an occasional smb weirdness which I'm guessing is a gui bug.

G4 450mhz
8500 flashed pc version.

[thePurpleGiant]

gorgonzola - my sentiments exactly

(my first time using that thumbs up smilie )

[TheIceMan]

gorgonzola: Thanks and well said.

[Anand]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
And no this is not a flame. I am a 6 month old PC switcher and own a G4 1Ghz Ti Powerbook with 1 Gig RAM and bought a new 17' Rev B stock about three weeks ago. Came installed with 10.2.7 and worked great. Got Panther GM through a friends ADC account and installed it yesterday on the 17 inch PB. I had seen 7B54 and thought it looked amazing. New features were amazing (expose etc...) and it was fast. Extremely fast.

As i am typing this on my PB 17', i cant but feel very let down with the last version, 7B85. Assuming this is the retail version, and everything points to this being true, let me point out all the three biggest problems i have had during these last 24 hours of intense usage.

- Panther is slow. I get to login window fast enough, but then everything is sluggish. When i select the user i want to login with, i get two seconds lag. I get a beachball and at least 15 seconds to login and be able to use the desktop. When i open a finder application and choose applications i get a 2 second lag. Mail.app and safari are slow to open, at least 5 to 6 seconds each, which is as fast as i can get them on my PB 15 Ti which is still under 10.2.8. My 1.33Ghz and improved motherboard architecture are just 'not there'.

- network is AWFUL. Sometimes i get internet connection and cant see other windows computers. Sometimes i get internet connection but wont see any computers on the network. And then again i might just see my other powerbook but cant access the PCs. Its just a case of boot and hope i get lucky.

- lots of random beachballing. Sometimes the preference window will slow down for 10 seconds with a beachball logo for no apparent reason. Then i close an app and it takes 10 seconds to close. The OS crashes half the time when powering off, and i need to hold the power button to switch it off.

Anyone have a similar experience ? I want to like panther, expose is great, and so are all the changes, but i cant take this sluggishness much longer.

Cheers
BadWisdom

I agree with you on the network - terrible. Almost to a point of being useless. Lets just hope that SSP and Sharity get updated to work with Panther.

I disagree with you on speed. Things like mail, MS word, safari, and itunes all open in 1-3 seconds. You may want to try a fresh install. I would recommend to everyone to wait until the 10.3.1 release to really use panther.

[quadgrande]

Just a comment that I installed 7B85 over 10.2.6 with no issues. I selected the "archive and install" option. I'm seeing the same performance as 7B74 on a clean partition.

[iDaver]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Could anyone out there time how long it takes them to lauch the following apps using Panther 7B85? It would help me determine if my system really has a problem or if im just expecting too much...

Application launch speed is highly dependent on the speed of your hard drive. Unless you upgrade to a faster disk I wouldn't expect you to see wildly faster launch times with a new OS. Of course there are other factors than disk speed, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect a huge improvement in application launch speeds with Panther. What's the big deal with launch speeds anyway. Let's say you spend a half hour using an application...what's the difference if it takes five seconds or ten seconds to launch?

The many other comments made in your first post worry me far more than application launch speed.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by iDaver:
Application launch speed is highly dependent on the speed of your hard drive. Unless you upgrade to a faster disk I wouldn't expect you to see wildly faster launch times with a new OS. Of course there are other factors than disk speed, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect a huge improvement in application launch speeds with Panther. What's the big deal with launch speeds anyway. Let's say you spend a half hour using an application...what's the difference if it takes five seconds or ten seconds to launch?

And some of us keep most apps open all the time even if we close document windows.

[alex_kac]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Could anyone out there time how long it takes them to lauch the following apps using Panther 7B85? It would help me determine if my system really has a problem or if im just expecting too much :

- imovie (6 secs)
- mail (5 secs)
- safari (5 secs)
- iphoto (4 secs)
- iTunes (6 secs)

Please give me times of first launch only. Thanks a lot. (my times are the ones in parenthesis)

At least for me on the Al 15'' Powerbook - all those are about 1-2 seconds max for me.

Well, iPhoto takes longer, but that's the number of pics I have.

[neoTony]

Hmn, I really don't want to get stuck into the whole is this GM debate, because I'm fairly certain this is (although ADC doesn't list this with any sort of GM suffix as people have been touting).

This worries me (although not too much - the docs list the method as being deprecated, not disabled/removed):

Code:
2003-10-20 11:33:00.136 Camino[2084] *** WARNING: Method runModalForWindow:relativeToWindow: 
in class NSApplication is obsolete and will be removed in release GM ***

This on Panther 7B85...

[edit: Broke warning into two lines because page became crazy wide.]

[crouchingtiger]

I have none of the problems in the original post running Panther 7B85 on the original Powerbook G4 12". It is noticeably faster than Jaguar and I've had no crashes since installing it 5 days ago. (In fact, my computer has been on without a restart since that time and under heavy use).

I'd surmise that there is some sort of software incompatibility that was introduced while upgrading from Jaguar (this, btw, is the primary reason why a fresh install sometimes will in fact differ from an upgrade). In particular, I know someone who had lots of problems when upgrading to Panther until he threw out DefaultFolder X.

[cowerd]

Have you checked hardware?
Any third party RAM installed?
What's your network setup?
Really very hard to trouble shoot anything with the lack of info provided. Also try booting verbose and see where the startup hangs. I bet your network setup is wrong.

[greener]

I'd like to apologize to Badwisdom. Sorry for being so immature. My comment was wrong and totally out of line. I hope 10.3.1 fixes any issues you are having.

[Link]

I can hardly wait for the retail box to come out, people to install it, start whining about the same damn things he's complaining about, and watch you little elite morons get ruined.

Apple's developers = I wonder how many feet they have their head underground NOT to catch the amount of bugs I've heard of.

[Telusman]

Well im not ashamed to say i Aquired panther in a shady manner, but i might just spend the dough on it, it's worth it and i believe it to be a good investment for the once $5100 laptop.... sigh.

I've had no problems with Panther 7b85, it's very fast and responsive and feels like im using OS 9

iPhoto - 2 Bounces
iTunes - 1 bounce
Mail - Half a bounce
Safari - 1 bounce
iMovie - eh, i dont have it installed.

All times are first launch times. Laptop is a PowerBook G4 667, 768 mb of ram, 30gb hard drive, DVD-ROM... If buddy there is having that many problems, then there is something wrong, Panther breathed new life into my machine. I can put off upgrading for another year or two now... yay!

-Telusman

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Could anyone out there time how long it takes them to lauch the following apps using Panther 7B85? It would help me determine if my system really has a problem or if im just expecting too much :

- imovie (6 secs)
- mail (5 secs)
- safari (5 secs)
- iphoto (4 secs)
- iTunes (6 secs)

Please give me times of first launch only. Thanks a lot. (my times are the ones in parenthesis)

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by neoTony:
Hmn, I really don't want to get stuck into the whole is this GM debate, because I'm fairly certain this is (although ADC doesn't list this with any sort of GM suffix as people have been touting).

This worries me (although not too much - the docs list the method as being deprecated, not disabled/removed):

[snip]

This on Panther 7B85...

It's about time they put some protection against piracy. Maybe this means the pre-release 7B85 won't be updateable.

[edit: Removed code warning because page became crazy wide.]

[CIA]

I have 7B85 installed on an external 7200RPM FW400 drive. It's leaps and bounds faster then 10.2.8. I can only guess you have some odd install on your machine.
I only have a few small quips about it after using it (10.3) for 4 days. My network has been acting odd from time to time. Safari loads in a flash, but then will take awhile to load a page that in 10.2.8 would load in a matter of seconds. But then later it's normal. Dunno. Also, not a Apple thing really, but AOL is funky. Thankfully I just use it for mail, and have a cable modem for everything else. (it's hard to let go of a 12 yr old email address...)
And for the record, I did also pre-purchase a retail copy of 10.3, and am awating it's arrival next week.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
And no this is not a flame. I am a 6 month old PC switcher and own a G4 1Ghz Ti Powerbook with 1 Gig RAM and bought a new 17' Rev B stock about three weeks ago. Came installed with 10.2.7 and worked great. Got Panther GM through a friends ADC account and installed it yesterday on the 17 inch PB.

If your friend has an ADC account, how about getting some help from him too? How does he feel about the trouble you're having? Can he let you compare your troubles to any machines he's got to see side-by-side if your troubles are unique or similar to his machines? It might save you time if you need to troubleshoot before going and reinstalling everything. Just a thought.


-Jerry C.

[bmedina]

This kind of thread happens all the time. Someone has weird problems with an install, then proceeds to blame the OS. Everyone else has no such problems, confirming the short-sightedness of the original poster blaming the OS.

Did you stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it's not a problem with 10.3, seeing as how no one else is having such issues? If only you had changed your thread title to something like, "Please help with 10.3 install." Of course, then you'd have to wait until 10.3 is legitimately released and acquired, and we can't have that.

[NeXTLoop]

Gorgonzola... THANK YOU! I've been waiting for a moderator to step up and say those exact words. Extremely well said.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by bmedina:
This kind of thread happens all the time. Someone has weird problems with an install, then proceeds to blame the OS. Everyone else has no such problems, confirming the short-sightedness of the original poster blaming the OS.

Did you stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it's not a problem with 10.3, seeing as how no one else is having such issues? If only you had changed your thread title to something like, "Please help with 10.3 install." Of course, then you'd have to wait until 10.3 is legitimately released and acquired, and we can't have that.

Exactly.

Badwisdom, want some tip on fixing your problem? Take out your memory cards and install them one by one to see if some of them make any difference to the overall OS speed.

Next time, you should try to control your frustration

[Dale Sorel]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
I want to like panther, expose is great, and so are all the changes, but i cant take this sluggishness much longer.

Me thinks you need to learn how to work a computer

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by greener:
I'd like to apologize to Badwisdom. Sorry for being so immature. My comment was wrong and totally out of line. I hope 10.3.1 fixes any issues you are having.

This must be a MacNN first. Kudos

[TC]

Can I just ask that you post a bit more info about the machines you are running it on?

Let us know how much memory you have on your 2 Powerbooks. Mac OS X does seem to love having lots of memory.

I'm on a Ti667 DVI with 768MB RAM and everything feels faster. I did my first clean install since 10.0 and took a lot of care about what I moved back from the Library folder.

An idea for MacNN, why not give people the ability to specify what machine they have in their preferences, not just hacking it on at the end of a signature?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
It's about time they put some protection against piracy. Maybe this means the pre-release 7B85 won't be updateable.

IFITWEREAPRE-RELEASETHENTHERELEASEWOULDN'TBE7B85BUT7B86ORHIGHER THEREISONLYONE7B85THERECANBEONLYONETHERECANBEONLYO NETHERECANBEONLYONE.