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WizOSX · Oct 27, 2003, 08:07 PM

Obviously, Panther still runs Classic but I'm wondering if machines that have the full Panther (not the upgrade) still include a separate OS9 after being installed.

I'm especially wondering if an OS9 compatible machine with Panther preloaded still has separate OS9? The main reason I'm wondering, of course, is that Panther doesn't really run VPC 5 (according to reports). So if I buy a machine like a PowerMac 1.25 ghz in a few weeks and it includes full Panther will I still get OS9?

Also, does anyone know yet if the Panther disks would let you also load 10.2 separately so that you could choose to sometimes boot in 10.2 (and avoid compatability problems)?

madmacgames · Oct 27, 2003, 08:42 PM

hmmm...

I don't know for sure but I would say I doubt it and here is why: I recently bought a powerbook on Sept 26th and it came preloaded with Jaguar 10.2.7 and it did not come with a seperate OS9 install.. Nor did Apple give me this option or send me any OS9 CDs (did not send any Jaguar CDs either), so unless I just got screwed, it looks like they stopped doing the seperate OS9 installs.

Love Calm Quiet · Oct 27, 2003, 08:49 PM

Then if you have some app that requires Classic you are SOL? How is apple providing for you? Can Sys 9 be found and downloaded readily from their web site?

x user · Oct 27, 2003, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by madmacgames:
hmmm...

I don't know for sure but I would say I doubt it and here is why: I recently bought a powerbook on Sept 26th and it came preloaded with Jaguar 10.2.7 and it did not come with a seperate OS9 install.. Nor did Apple give me this option or send me any OS9 CDs (did not send any Jaguar CDs either), so unless I just got screwed, it looks like they stopped doing the seperate OS9 installs.

But your Powerbook will NOT boot into OS9 anyway. Vs. A 1.25ghz Powermac which will. And I'd say yes it probably would come with a bootable OS9 and NO it WON'T be able to boot into both 10.2 and 10.3 unless you have them on seperate partitions.

madmacgames · Oct 27, 2003, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by x user:
But your Powerbook will NOT boot into OS9 anyway. Vs. A 1.25ghz Powermac which will.

interesting... I did not know that. So you mean to say that my friend who has an older 15" 400Mhz G4 powerbook and running dual boot of OS9 and OS X, his will boot OS9; but my new 12" 1GHz G4 powerbook will not boot into OS9?? not that I'd want to run OS9, but I find that interesting...

Yes my powerbook came with the classic OS9 installed inside OS X to clarify that up.

Brass · Oct 27, 2003, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by WizOSX:
The main reason I'm wondering, of course, is that Panther doesn't really run VPC 5 (according to reports).

What reports? I've heard reports that VPC (any version) doesn't work with G5 computers, but heard nothing about Panther.

I've just tried it now to check, and it appears to work okay (VPC 5 here, on OS X 10.3).

WizOSX · Oct 27, 2003, 09:38 PM

To see the problems people are having with VPC5 and Panther go to macwindows.com. Halfway down the page is section "Virtual PC 5 DOA in Panther. "

WizOSX · Oct 27, 2003, 10:16 PM

But do the disks that now come with Panther install OS9 in a separate folder? If so, then machines that can boot OS9 on restart can do so, ones that can't can't. Otherwise, if your machine comes loaded with Panther you can never reboot in OS9.

Thor · Oct 28, 2003, 06:36 AM

But do the disks that now come with Panther install OS9 in a separate folder?

The Panther disks do not include an OS 9 install of ANY kind. Not even Classic.

If you want to use Classic (or OS 9 on machines that support it), you need to (re)install OS 9 or Classic compatiblity from the OS 9 or Software Restore CDs that came with your computer.

Note: If you do an update or archive & install, classic will continue to work.

Love Calm Quiet · Oct 28, 2003, 07:29 AM

Two notes/ issues:

VPC 5 may be having problems but some initial VPC 6/6.1 problems seem to be resolvable and result in stable experiences:
"Virtual PC and Panther" http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=184545

Are there actually machine (eg., G5) that WILL NOT run Classic. I had not heard that. Please site experience/documentation?

Eriamjh · Oct 28, 2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
Are there actually machine (eg., G5) that WILL NOT run Classic. I had not heard that. Please site experience/documentation?

All macs can run classic, new or old. It comes with every mac. However, OS9 (not classic, but OS9) only comes with the 1.25G PM G4s and the old G3 iBook and (maybe ) the eMacs.

Please do not confuse classic with BOOTING into OS9. OS9 is NOT classic. Classic is the operation of OS9 from within OSX. Two different things. OS9 is an operating system. Classic is a restricted environment that allows the running of OS9,8,7 etc. apps from within OSX. It is essentially an OSX application that runs OS9 applications.

Classic support is NOT going away anytime soon. Classic will continue to come with all Macs for a few more years. However, I expect around 2005-6 that Apple will announce the official dropping of classic for OSX. When that happens, there will only be OSX.

Panther does not come with classic or OS9. Jaguar didn't either. If your machine boots OS9, use your original OS9 install disks to put OS9 on your machine with Panther. If not, use "Archive and Install" to preserve classic on your machine. I don't know how you can install classic on an OSX boot only machine if you've wiped the drive and installed Panther.
(I'm just repeating what Thor said. Maybe someone will actually read it.)

mikerally · Oct 28, 2003, 11:57 AM

Anybody who buys a copy of Mac OS X v10.3 Panther, is entitled to a copy of Mac OS 9.2.2 from Apple for a shipping and handling fee of $19.95.

You can use this copy of Mac OS 9.2.2 to install Mac OS 9 and boot a Macintosh that supports booting Mac OS 9.

You can also use the same CD to install a copy of Mac OS 9 for the Classic environment.

See this PDF for details:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/...de_Form_v3.pdf

The Mac OS 9 system folder that you find shipping with Macs these days is capable of booting a Mac which supports Mac OS 9 booting, and also can boot the Classic Environment.

AFAIK, this Mac OS 9 System Folder (which is only available on the software restore disc accompanying your Mac) still ships with all Macs regardless if it is being used for booting a Mac or just for Classic.