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Carlos7 · Nov 11, 2003, 11:01 PM

In OS 10.3, the "Search with Google" service automatically chooses Safari for the search regardless of which program is selected as the default web browser. Can others confirm this behavior? It is very troubling for me since I used it often in OS 10.1 (I think it was a third party service file). I use OmniWeb as my default browser.

When I upgraded to 10.3, I was a bit surprised by Apple's decision to move general internet preferences from the System Preferences app to Safari's prefs window. After all, it makes no sense to require users to open Apple's web browser to tell the computer to use a different browser, or to change the home-page globally. While this was a sneaky move from Apple, it is not a big practical issue since most people do not change those settings often. However, in light of the odd behavior of the Google service, I fear that this may be an intentional pattern.

KidRed · Nov 11, 2003, 11:19 PM

Intentional? Ah yea. Apple didn't spend all that time and energy on Safari for nothing. Apple wants you to use Safari. That's very easy to do since it is the best browser on the mac. There are a few sites that don't render correctly, I send feedback on every one of them. There are those 1-2 sites that simply require IE, but IE has been collecting major dust since Safari's debut.

Another explanation could be IE's amazing ability to change the internet browser prefs from what we the 'user' chose and default it back to IE after updates. So, rather then have an inferior browser change the prefs, Apple moved them to Safari's prefs.

Developer · Nov 11, 2003, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Carlos7:
In OS 10.3, the "Search with Google" service automatically chooses Safari for the search regardless of which program is selected as the default web browser. Can others confirm this behavior? It is very troubling for me since I used it often in OS 10.1 (I think it was a third party service file). I use OmniWeb as my default browser.

Search with Google is a Service by Safari just like Open URL in OmniWeb is a Service by OmniWeb. It's not a third party Service.

mitchell_pgh · Nov 12, 2003, 12:35 AM

I think it's obvious that either Apple told M$ not to continue with IE for OS X or that M$ basically said "Go F@#$ Yourself Apple..."

IE is VERY outdated now on OS X. Other then the original port to OS X, they never had any intentions to keep it up to date... or we would have seen IE 6 long ago.

JKT · Nov 12, 2003, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by KidRed:
Intentional? Ah yea. Apple didn't spend all that time and energy on Safari for nothing. Apple wants you to use Safari. That's very easy to do since it is the best browser on the mac.

Says who? I think OmniWeb is a far superior browser to Safari but that is just MO. Quite frankly this is disgustingly MicroSoftian behaviour on Apple's part - who the fsck are they to determine what is and what isn't the browser I choose to use? It isn't limited to the default browser either as the default e-mail app also can't be changed other than through Mail. If anything this will encourage third party software providers to hijack the preferences as it isn't going to be obvious to everyone where these settings for default apps are.

As per the original post - it appears that the Search Google service that you are seeing does in fact come from Safari as, on my clean installed system, it is also present even though I don't have the third party "Search Google" service installed.

Millennium · Nov 12, 2003, 07:44 AM

Safari offers the Search with Google service, not the OS itself. Any other browser could easily offer such a service -the implementation for something like this is not hard at all- or as others have noted, there are third-party Services available which use whatever the user has set in his or her Preferences.

OmniWeb has offered Services of this nature for a long time; not a Search with Google service specifically, but that would be ridiculously simple to do since they already have a framework for writing Services of this kind. Is Safari not allowed to do the same thing?

ApeInTheShell · Nov 12, 2003, 11:04 AM

IMO and IMHO are redundant since what you are posting is in your opinion. Facts are usually in quotes and common knowledge is a given.
So which is it?
It took me a couple minutes to try out safari and change the internet preferences in there.
Since Safari, no one has been able to step up to the plate and make a better browser.
We have Camino, Mozilla, Netscape, Omniweb, iCab, Opera..etc.
Some you pay fees, others are in beta still, and one in particular left mainstream web browsing a long time ago.
One good thing about Safari is it is brushed metal which makes it easier to spot between other aqua browsers.

Developer · Nov 12, 2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
One good thing about Safari is it is brushed metal which makes it easier to spot between other aqua browsers.

Yes, that's great. Never do I have any Finder windows open, or iTunes, iPhoto, Address Book, or iChat. By my desktop is cluttered by Aqua windows of other browsers. It's so easy to spot the brushed metal Safari window in there.

ApeInTheShell · Nov 12, 2003, 06:33 PM

I was going to suggest translucent brushed metal like the terminal window, but that is just silly.
You can minimize those brushed metal windows ya know. If you don't like brushed metal find a way around it.
Besides those applications with the exception of address book, iPhoto, iCal, and iMovie would look quite horrible in aqua. Barren and hopeless, oh the horror!

ApeInTheShell · Nov 12, 2003, 06:36 PM

Oh if you hide the status bar you'll never see those oh so awful brushed metal finder windows again, wee!

cybergoober · Nov 12, 2003, 09:37 PM

Pssssst.

The "Internet" pref pane from Jaguar works in Panther�

Carlos7 · Nov 13, 2003, 12:35 AM

It didn't occur to me that it was a service provided directly by Safari. I hope the third party equivalent does not conflict with it. Perhaps I will simply delete Safari (or move it) to eliminate its service from the menu. I can then try cybergoober's very helpful suggestion to regain my Internet prefs pane.

I agree with JKT that Apple's changes regarding the internet prefs (browser and mail) are very draconian, though I didn't want to make a direct comparison with the Beast of Redmond. Apple does not have a large enough market share to act like a monopoly (obviously), but similar actions on a smaller scale (like these) will probably work because they may not upset enough people to cause loud complaints from the community.

On the topic of Services, I think it would be excellent if Apple were to include some kind of Services Manager in that menu. A simple window with a list of all available services with a check-box by each one would be a great way to eliminate unused services from the menu. It is really quite cluttered, even with a standard installation of the OS.

RayX · Nov 13, 2003, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think it's obvious that either Apple told M$ not to continue with IE for OS X or that M$ basically said "Go F@#$ Yourself Apple..."

IE is VERY outdated now on OS X. Other then the original port to OS X, they never had any intentions to keep it up to date... or we would have seen IE 6 long ago.

It's outdated on Windows to.

PNG support anyone?

I use Mozilla on OS X and Windows. While a little bloated, it renders pages faster and more accurately than anything else.

mrtew · Nov 13, 2003, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
Since Safari, no one has been able to step up to the plate and make a better browser. We have Camino, Mozilla, Netscape, Omniweb, iCab, Opera..etc.....

huh? Camino's as good as Safari. I've had them both running all the time since Safari came out and if one was better I would have spotted it by now. They are virtually identical except for the way they look.