[m a d r a]

i originally thought this was a dreamweaver and flash MX 2004 problem, but i'm now coming to the conclusion this is a serious panther bug:

read about my dreamweaver and flash nightmare in this thread

to summarise:
something happens to my user account and both flash and DW won't launch. when i try to reinstall them, the installer 'isn't right' ie. the licence agreement text box is blank. after the re-install, the apps still crash on launch. deleting all prefs [even invisible ones] won't solve the problem. nor will an 'archive and install' of the system nor any of the fixes posted on the macromedia site. only a re-format of hard drive and re-install of system restores things to 'normal'.

now read on:

after my third [count 'em!] format and clean install of panther, i avoided the temptation of copying back my old backed up [and possibly corrupt] prefs and configured everything by hand. i installed dreamweaverMX 2004 and flashMX 2004 and they ran fine, until....

while using cinema4D i suffered a system freeze up and had to do a forced restart. when i was up and running again i found that both flash and dreamweaver MX 2004 had started crashing on launch again. when i went to re-install them, the licence agreement was blank - the classic symptom that the install was 'fubar-ed' that i'd come to know and love from before!

however. this time i hadnae copied any old prefs across. this was a totally 'virginal' re-format and clean install, so the problem wasnae an 'inherited' one. it must have been caused by the crash. i tried a few more apps.... adobe indesign seemed to work fine , until i tried to open a previously saved document, at which point it crashed -every time. i tried to install adobe golive and again, the licence agreement box was blank [bad sign!] after installing, adobe golive would crash on launch every time.

so i'm now coming to the conclusion that this is *not* a problem specific to macromedia studioMX 2004 but is in some way connected with a major crash or freeze up under panther. looking back, i can remember having a kernel panic last week and another cinema4D freeze up before that, which meant i had to do a forced restart with both my previous format and clean installs of panther - which i'm now thinking was the indirect cause of all my later probs with installers and apps dying on launch.

the thing that annoys me most is that it seems that under panther, a kernel panic or system freeze can f**k your user account so badly that only a complete format and re-install can solve the problem [yes. i've tried repairing priveleges, archive and re-install and deleting every pref [visible and invisible] in sight] - and all this is with panther's new built in disc journaling which is meant to prevent exactly this kind of thing!

am i really alone here, or has anyone else suffered this madness? the obvious symptoms are:

1. it happens after a freeze up or kernel panic.

2. only the user account in question is affected. on other accounts the affected apps work as normal.

3. when installing software, the terms and conditions of the user licence agreement is blank [actually i think it only happens with installer vise installers. apple 'system style' installers seem fine].

4. apps will crash on launch [in my case- dreamweaverMX and flashMX 2004 and adobe golive 6. indesignCS will crash on opening previously saved docs.]

5. nothing will alleviate the problem [ie. deleting prefs [even invisible ones], re-installing software or system] apart form a complete reformat and clean install.


although i'd hate to wish this on anyone else, at least a fellow sufferer would let me know this is a reproducable bug.

anyone?

[barbarian]

First try resetting PRAM. If this doesn't work, almost for sure you have deeper hardware problems... if this just started happening after panther was installed, almost for sure the problem is a) 3rd party memory or b) a 3rd party hardware addition.

The memory issue could happen because panther is much twitchier about memory than jag.

The 3rd party hardware thing could happen because of an incompatible driver.

The other culprits would be anything 3rd party that installs in the Library folder... any 3rd party ktext files, fonts and so on... You should always try to install stuff into your own library folder and not the root lib folder. This way you can test things just by having a clean default user.... if the system crashes in your user space but not in the default user space you know you've added something bad.

Basically you should almost never have a kernel panic. I'm responsible for scores of machines and the only ones we have ever seen with kpanics have been because of some hardware issue.

Anyway my guess would be memory... your system loads into the apple installed memory and seems fine and then when you load your apps you get into 3rd party memory which causes the problems.

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by barbarian:
.....The memory issue could happen because panther is much twitchier about memory than jag.....

i have got extra third party memory installed, but it's from crucial, so i'm presuming it's top quality.

as regards panther being 'twitchier' about RAM than jag, this sounds like a worrying development [if it's true], given that OSX already demanded higher quality RAM than 9.

Originally posted by barbarian:
.....Basically you should almost never have a kernel panic. I'm responsible for scores of machines and the only ones we have ever seen with kpanics have been because of some hardware issue......

i've had two kernel panics in about a year's use of jag and one in one week of using panther. not enough to surmise a trend from, but the hardware is the same and i've run enough disc utilities before installing panther [and bought good enough quality RAM] to be satisfied that it isnae a hardware problem.


besides. the problems only affect the user account that was active when the freeze-up or kernel panic happened. other accounts can launch and use the affected software without a problem. if it was a RAM problem, it would be system-wide. IMO it's almost certainly a permissions error, but one that's not obviously linked to any of the apps in question [or, for that matter, one that disc utility's 'repair permissions' picks up].

[wadesworld]

It's almost certainly a bad font. If you'll post the stack trace off those crashes, I'll bet it will show that.

I did have one instance where all my apps were crashing under Panther. In one of my font folder (/Library/Fonts I think), I found some fonts named like ???????.dfnt.

Once I removed those fonts, the problem went away.

Wade

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by wadesworld:
......It's almost certainly a bad font. If you'll post the stack trace off those crashes, I'll bet it will show that.

I did have one instance where all my apps were crashing under Panther. In one of my font folder (/Library/Fonts I think), I found some fonts named like ???????.dfnt.

Once I removed those fonts, the problem went away.

Wade.....

well, on face of it that sounded like a suitably obscure possibility [especially as flash crashes at the 'initialising fonts' stage], but i've just double-checked and i havenae got any fonts installed in my '~/library/fonts' folder. all my fonts are in '/library/fonts' or '/system/library/fonts' and therefore available to all users. so this still wouldn't explain why the probs are limited to the user account that was active when the crash happened.

as regards errors:

dreamweaver and flash give the following in the console...

Authentication Service: Started
Xerces Panic Error: Could not load a local code page transcoder

indesign when crashing on opening an existing file gives a similar...

Xerces Panic Error: Could not load a local code page transcoder

system log gives the following on trying to launch flash...

Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: /Library/Application Support/Macrovision/AuthenticationService could not be launched prebound.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: The file /Library/Application Support/Macrovision/AuthenticationService changed after the prebinding problem was noted.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: 2003-11-28 20:33:29 +0000: prebinding for AuthenticationService done.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: /Library/Application Support/Macrovision/AuthenticationService could not be launched prebound.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: The file /Library/Application Support/Macrovision/AuthenticationService changed after the prebinding problem was noted.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: 2003-11-28 20:33:29 +0000: prebinding for AuthenticationService done.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: /Applications/Macromedia Flash MX 2004/Flash MX 2004/Contents/frameworks/LicMan.framework/Versions/A/Resources/mvnotificationservice could not be launched prebound.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: The file /Applications/Macromedia Flash MX 2004/Flash MX 2004/Contents/frameworks/LicMan.framework/Versions/A/Resources/mvnotificationservice changed after the prebinding problem was noted.
Nov 28 20:33:29 localhost /usr/libexec/fix_prebinding: 2003-11-28 20:33:29 +0000: prebinding for mvnotificationservice done.
Nov 28 20:33:36 localhost /Applications/Macromedia Flash MX 2004/Flash MX 2004/Contents/MacOS/Flash: *** Warning: ATSUSetFontFallbacks has been deprecated. Use ATSUFontFallbacks objects instead. ***

it's all feckin greek to me???

[Big Mac]

well, it does look like fonts may have something to do with what you're experiencing, since the last entry in the Console is about them. But there's also a major prebinding problem there. Have you fixed your permissions recently?

[mcsjgs]

You probably know how to force a prebind from the CLI, but Cocktail also has that feature (as do many others, I'm sure). Every Unix person says it is absolutely not necessary to ever do this, but if that's the problem?

[m a d r a]

thanks for the suggestions folks.

i tried prebinding with cocktail and i even tried renaming my fonts folder [effectively disabling it], in case there *was* a problem with it [even tho' it's empty] - but no joy.

there is more than a whiff of font problems about this, as there is mention of 'font' in the error log *and* flash bombs out every time at the 'initialising fonts' stage, but i cannae see how this would only cause a crash when using one specific user account out of all those on the computer, unless the font problem was specific to the '~/library/fonts' folder for that particular user. and as my '~/library/fonts' folder is empty.....????

this one could run and run. [unlike a lot of my apps! ]

[wadesworld]

it's all feckin greek to me???

None of that is a stack trace - that's all just log messages.

A stack trace is what you get when the dialog box pops up that asks you if you want to send the report to Apple. Say yes, and you'll get a dialog with the stack trace in it. Copy it and paste it here. You can then either send it on to Apple, or just cancel out.

but i cannae see how this would only cause a crash when using one specific user account out of all those on the computer, unless the font problem was specific to the '~/library/fonts' folder for that particular user. and as my '~/library/fonts' folder is empty.....????

Quit trying to make sense out of it and troubleshoot it instead. Start moving fonts out of /Library/Fonts - yes, I know you shouldn't have to, but right now, everything is pointing to fonts, so you might as well try.

Wade

[barbarian]

1. Try creating a new user... No crashes and you know it's something you added.

2. Remove all 3rd party firewire, ethernet and usb devices.... no crash and it's one of those.

3. remove 3rd party memory... a very likely culprit.

4. If none of these things is doing it, you have a serious hardware problem... bad drive (can happen...happened to one of the computers here), or bad motherboard. Cross your fingers it's not that last option.

[Big Mac]

If this problem is limited to just one of your accounts, there's some corruption that's specifically endemic to that account. So just move all of your files over to another account. Maybe its one of your user cache files or something similar.

[mcsjgs]

This may be completely stupid, but have you looked at that user account with invisible files turned on? Maybe some weirdness you can't see in normal view?

[workerbee]

Originally posted by wadesworld:
Quit trying to make sense out of it and troubleshoot it instead. Start moving fonts out of /Library/Fonts - yes, I know you shouldn't have to, but right now, everything is pointing to fonts, so you might as well try.

You could also try and run Font Agent Pro, as it does check your fonts. I'm not quite sure whether it checks system fonts in trial mode, though.

BTW: anyone know what this xerces stuff is? (One of the results from a Google search).