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schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 12:29 PM

Ok, I know this sounds easy on the surface, but these two files cannot be deleted. I tried all of the ways I know to delete, including many tries in terminal as root using the various commands of rm. I also had help from a major university top Mac admin, another Mac admin and an Apple lead Mac Genius, but to no avail. I can move these files by moving their folders, but not directly (terminal & finder) and get info on the files, but not rename them. I no longer use Direct Connect (just tried it once), so I want to get rid of them. The files also booted in the trash and haven't been active for quite some time, however connecting from a Mac OS 9 machine can't take care of it, neither can an X machine as ssh or afp.

Here's an image of the files in Finder:

A couple of pieces of output for you:

What I get in zsh & bash terminal when running ls as root:
krille??????e).dclst krille??????e).ucl

What I get in zsh & bash terminal when running ls -alo or ls -al as root:
ls:
ls:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 4 root staff - 136 16 Dec 12:21 .
drwxrwxrwx 4 root staff - 136 16 Dec 13:39 ..

Interesting, huh? I think they might be in some other character encoding method, which maybe could help me take care of them if I could use it. Can you help me kill it?

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 12:32 PM

Have you tried running DiskWarrior on the drive?

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Have you tried running DiskWarrior on the drive?

Not DiskWarrior (I may have an older copy, not sure if I should try it). I did use TechTool Pro 4.0.1 though. All 4 internal drives passed all the tests, including surface scan (probably can rule out bad block causing file corruption then).

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by schalliol:
Not DiskWarrior (I may have an older copy, not sure if I should try it). I did use TechTool Pro 4.0.1 though. All 4 internal drives passed all the tests, including surface scan (probably can rule out bad block causing file corruption then).

I'd give DiskWarrior a shot. It sounds like something's wrong with your directories. Sometimes DW can fix things that Norton/TTP miss.

I think that DiskWarrior 2 and better can safely be run on OS X drives.

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 12:58 PM

More things I tried:
2 apps that are supposed to delete files, but alas they're just applescripts and I always get an error.

Stuffing the file and having stuffit delete the original (this worked in OS 9 sometimes), didn't work.

I used autocomplete on one of the files by typing "cat kr[tab]," which gave me (only in bash) "krille\355\234\237\355\262\267e\)." Then typing ucl to do "cat krille\355\234\237\355\262\267e\).ucl" and got "No such file or directory"

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by schalliol:
More things I tried:
2 apps that are supposed to delete files, but alas they're just applescripts and I always get an error.

Stuffing the file and having stuffit delete the original (this worked in OS 9 sometimes), didn't work.

I used autocomplete on one of the files by typing "cat kr[tab]," which gave me (only in bash) "krille\355\234\237\355\262\267e\)." Then typing ucl to do "cat krille\355\234\237\355\262\267e\).ucl" and got "No such file or directory"

If the OS X Finder, rm, and even Mac OS 9 are not able to delete the file, I highly doubt that using a different app to try to delete the file will make much of a difference.

Please try DiskWarrior and let us know if it works.

Developer · Dec 17, 2003, 01:23 PM

Trash and delete or sudo rm the enclosing folder.
If that doesn't work boot into OS 9 and delete the files.
If that doesn't work compress the files using DropStuff and let it delete the original.

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
Trash and delete or sudo rm the enclosing folder.
If that doesn't work boot into OS 9 and delete the files.
If that doesn't work compress the files using DropStuff and let it delete the original.

while I didn't directly boot into OS 9 (don't have it on this machine anymore), I did try OS 9 remotely. The other things you mentioned I talk about above, they don't work (DropStuff and Stuffit Deluxe can do the same thing). Thanks though!

Running DiskWarrior now...

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
If the OS X Finder, rm, and even Mac OS 9 are not able to delete the file, I highly doubt that using a different app to try to delete the file will make much of a difference.

Please try DiskWarrior and let us know if it works.

I agree there!

Developer · Dec 17, 2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by schalliol:
while I didn't directly boot into OS 9 (don't have it on this machine anymore), I did try OS 9 remotely.

Try Firewire target disk mode. Mount the disk in OS 9 directly not remotely.

dagaz · Dec 17, 2003, 02:01 PM

Did you try sudo rm -f /Previous\ System\ 1/Users/shalliol/Library/Application\ Support/Direct\ Connect/dcLists/* ? The best bet would be to type the first few letters of each directory then use tab to autocomplete. It looks from your image as if there are only the two files in that directory which is why I suggested the * wildcard.

Good luck.

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 02:19 PM

^ He already said rm didn't work.

schalliol · 02:38 PM

dagaz, I did try that. I tried both autocompleting and using individual files and whole directories, none of that works

Developer, I don't really have the capability at the moment to boot into OS 9 on the machine or FireWire target into OS 9, but I'll find a way if it's the last resort. I don't see what good it would do to FireWire target into it from an OS X machine, but I'll try it if you think it's worth it.

CharlesS, I did run DiskWarrior and here's the output I got from the report on the files:
[QUOTE]File: "krille

Developer · Dec 17, 2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by schalliol:
I don't see what good it would do to FireWire target into it from an OS X machine, but I'll try it if you think it's worth it.

No, I meant put it into Firewire target disk mode and mount it on the OS 9 machine. I said that because you said your machine does not boot OS 9.

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 02:34 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by schalliol:
CharlesS, I did run DiskWarrior and here's the output I got from the report on the files:

File: "krille

It looks like something went wrong with the BBS and your post got cut off. Could you repost this?

schalliol · 02:48 PM

Yeah, I don't know what happened there, let's try again, I think the garbled text even screwed up MacNN and removed all content following (that's some nasty text name)!:
dagaz, I did try that. I tried both autocompleting and using individual files and whole directories, none of that works

Developer, I don't really have the capability at the moment to boot into OS 9 on the machine or FireWire target into OS 9, but I'll find a way if it's the last resort. I don't see what good it would do to FireWire target into it from an OS X machine, but I'll try it if you think it's worth it.

CharlesS, I did run DiskWarrior and here's the output I got from the report on the files:

File: "krill[garbled].dclst" Detected that the Name changed Location: "Main Drive/delete/Previous System 1/Users/schalliol/Library/Application Support/Direct Connect/dcLists/ " File: "krill[garbled].ucl"

Detected that the Name changed Location: "Main Drive/delete/Previous System 1/Users/schalliol/Library/Application Support/Direct Connect/dcLists/ "

That didn't seem to do anything as far as I can tell and still when I go to remove as root with autocomplete:
"root# rm krille\355\234\237\355\262\267e\).ucl

"
Hitting the return key just goes down a line
then I hit return again and get no action changed and no message.

I guess booting into OS 9 or OS X FW Target is the only thing left to try (of sane solutions). Any more?

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 02:51 PM

Does rm -rf'ing the parent directory produce any different results now that you have run DiskWarrior on the drive?

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Does rm -rf'ing the parent directory produce any different results now that you have run DiskWarrior on the drive?

Sadly, no

root# rm -rf dcLists/
rm: dcLists/: Directory not empty

CharlesS · Dec 17, 2003, 02:56 PM

I guess the OS 9 trick is the thing to try. Weird...

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:

I guess the OS 9 trick is the thing to try. Weird...

Sounds like it might be. I just hate to install OS 9 on either of my X machines, JUST for the purpose of doing this....hmm, maybe just boot off of an OS 9 CD, that's probably a better idea....heck if I still have one!

Busemann · Dec 17, 2003, 03:13 PM

Open Direct connect and completely clear all dl windows and favorites etc.

I believe its the name of the files that are causing the troubles, so if you could, rename the files and drag them to the trash (have you tried super get info?)

fisherKing · Dec 17, 2003, 03:22 PM

funny to catch this thread, i have a file like that (weird text, etc) that i could not delete.
tried everything, including above suggestions...

it's on my fw drive, so...buried it deep (& try to forget it's there

)

SSharon · Dec 17, 2003, 03:22 PM

Well I hope for both of our sakes that something works I have 2 files stuck in my trash too.

I have tried everything that I know of and that has been suggested on these forums. Oddly enough the file I can't delete is an mpg that I downloaded with Direct Connect. Its in a folder and I can rename the folder but not the file (operation could not be completed error -43).

theory · 03:52 PM

Have you tried renaming the file?
Also if bash and zsh didn't work try tcsh.

As a last, last resort try clri (clear inode)
find out the inode of the files using ls -i and
then

clri "device name of disk" "inode number"

You can find the device name of your disk
through disk utility. It is called disk identifier.

I have never tried this before but it should
work because it is working at a pretty low level.

schalliol · 03:50 PM

SOLVED!!!!
"Props" to "Developer"!

It looks like booting off of the 9.1 CD that came with the tower let me see the HD and delete the file.

It's possible it's hidden somewhere, but I'm pretty sure it's wiped of the directory information.

This does go along with the theory I had of an alternate encoding method used for that file name (I don't think OS 9 uses UTF-8), which is why the finder saw it one way and the terminal (of course what matters) saw it as another. One thing I wish I had done is looked at the files before killing them, but all my effort to get them deleted got the better of me and they were gone almost without thinking. Perhaps adjusting the terminal encoding in window settings would have similar results.

THANK YOU EVERYONE WHO GAVE THEIR THOUGHTS. This problem should not be a problem and I'll do my best to report it to Apple (have suggestions, let me know). People with similar files, try it out and see if that helps you.

Theory, I solved it and was posting when you posted. I didn't get to try your...theory...as a result. Your method sounds pretty good of renaming at a node level - a rename doesn't work in the conventional way, but you can rename and move the folder. Thanks!

york28 · Dec 17, 2003, 08:25 PM

Glad you got it figured out. Here's some more info in case this happens to someone else. I had a similar problem with a file, weird characters and all.

There is a file property called "immutable". There are two types: system immutable and user immutable. Basically, this flag says that the file can not be modified.

To check to see if this is your problem, cd to that directory in the Terminal, and type ls -alo

There will be an additional column, if you see schg or uchg in that column, this is your problem.

If it's uchg, you can fix the problem by following the instructions on this page.

If it's schg, you can still fix it, but it's a royal pain. check the link above for how to. That is what my file was. I couldn't boot into OS 9 because it was a new machine, but that might have worked since I don't think it respects this attribute.

Hope that helps someone.

schalliol · Dec 17, 2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by york28:
Glad you got it figured out. Here's some more info in case this happens to someone else. I had a similar problem with a file, weird characters and all.

There is a file property called "immutable". There are two types: system immutable and user immutable. Basically, this flag says that the file can not be modified.

To check to see if this is your problem, cd to that directory in the Terminal, and type ls -alo

There will be an additional column, if you see schg or uchg in that column, this is your problem.

If it's uchg, you can fix the problem by following the instructions on this page.

If it's schg, you can still fix it, but it's a royal pain. check the link above for how to. That is what my file was. I couldn't boot into OS 9 because it was a new machine, but that might have worked since I don't think it respects this attribute.

Hope that helps someone.

Yeah, those are hard to get rid of, but you will have different symptoms than shown in the rest of the message. It's very interesting all of the various issues in Mac OS X, there wouldn't be a problem like this in OS 9! That said, I'd never go back.