[stuffedmonkey]

Looks as if someone has ripped off expose, name and all, and is selling it for windows:

http://www.winexpose.com/

[juanvaldes]

does this surprise you?

[Matt OS X]

Originally posted by stuffedmonkey:
Looks as if someone has ripped off expose, name and all, and is selling it for windows:

http://www.winexpose.com/

[Nonsuch]

Apple's lawyers live for this stuff.

[Millennium]

Not for long, they won't.

This violates intellectual-property laws on so many levels it's not even funny. At the very least it violates Apple's trademark, and may well violate patents as well.

Apple will eat these jerks for lunch.

[RooneyX]

Expose is supposed to be a demonstration of the power of QE. Now this guy can a make Windows 98 do it.

[AlphaQuam]

Looks pretty lame. I wonder how this app does it. From reading the documentation it sounds like each window that is open is turned into an image and then scaled. The worst part is they don't even have a demo available so you can test how it performs on your computer, and they have no recommended specs listed. I imagine it's terribly slow (forcing you to turn the "animation" off) unless you have a very high-end PC.

From their FAQ...

Note: With Windows 98 the quality of the images is not smooth. This is due to a bug in Microsoft's implementation of graphics handling.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Expose is supposed to be a demonstration of the power of QE. Now this guy can a make Windows 98 do it.

Big deal; something similar has been out for GNOME for several months now.

The GNOME clone, however, credits Apple for the idea as well and makes no money. These guys are different. I'm going to enjoy telling Apple Legal about this one

[bmedina]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Expose is supposed to be a demonstration of the power of QE. Now this guy can a make Windows 98 do it.

Of course it's possible on other systems. It works on non-QE Macs, yeah? The difference is that you basically get all the scaling for free (little CPU performance hit) with QE-capable machines.

Too bad these guys went to all this effort only to have Apple on their tails.

[nickm]

Like most windows copies, it misses the nice touches, like drag and drop. I would bet it also doesn't do the nice thing where you can hold and then release to snap immediately back where you came from.

[nickm]

It works on non-QE Macs, yeah?

Not very well. At least on my G3-450. It's still usable, just not as slick.

[Wiskedjak]

The most interesting thing about this App is that there isn't a demo ...

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

I wonder if it is even real.

[theolein]

Of course one can do this quite easily on Windows, as Windows exposes the list of Window controls like every OS does, and I presume that they use the 2D acceleration of the Graphic card to speed up the animations a bit.

I also have no idea whether it's legal or not. It could be that Apple can't do much to them since it's mimicing a feature of OSX, not copying the internals. At the least Apple could perhaps get them to change the name and the settings panel but not much more. Just for the hell of it, I mailed the link to Apple to see what they'll do.

[THE MAC GOD]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
Apple's lawyers live for this stuff.

You ain't kidding... the ONLY thing different is that you have to press a different key combination... even the desktop hot spots pic is practically the same... yeesh... I wonder if this is a joke...

[gorickey]

I'll order this for Virtual PC...

[Kenneth]

WTF!!!

On VPC? will it chock?

I am unable to use SmartBarXP on VPC..

[ambush]

looks like a scam to me.

[insha]

Hope they burn in hell... fscking windoze mofos....

[Brass]

So do the windows remain live (ie, with dynamically changing content), or are they merely static images based on the content of the window at the time it was shrunk?

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by Brass:
So do the windows remain live (ie, with dynamically changing content), or are they merely static images based on the content of the window at the time it was shrunk?

If it's real then he could make them live. The Windows GDI has supported these features for years.

[King Bob On The Cob]

I don't know about you guys, but that girl in the demo is pretty good looking

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
I don't know about you guys, but that girl in the demo is pretty good looking

We are just as good looking.

[lookmark]

This company seems pretty sketchy (the name, too? c'mon), but that aside, I'm not sure that this is as black and white an issue as it first seems.

Should Apple really should be able to patent a windowing feature?

And if so, for how long?

What exactly about Exposé is patented, and what isn't?

Could have Microsoft patented Fast User Switching, then? Or sidebars? Or alt-tabbing?

[michaelb]

I don't know if this makes me a traitor, but I've actually bought this and installed it on my tablet (well if Apple won't make me one, Motion makes the next best thing).

I've assigned the activation key to a hotkey on the side of the tablet, and it is a genuinely useful addition to the Windows environment.



Some general comments:

- the window positioning is far more geometric and artificial than the natural layout decisions of the real Exposé

- window proportions are not maintained: the contents of small windows can appear larger than full screen windows, and which window can get a size emphasis is more or less random

- there is a bit of flickering as the windows redraw when replaced, nowhere near the smoothness of Quartz

- there are no live updates of windows: they are shrunk static thumbnails only

- apps such as Photoshop and Acrobat with multiple windows do not spread out the windows. You see only a shrunk version of what the app shows you within the master window (see screenshot: left center - there are actually 3 Photoshop documents open, and WinExpose is not helping me get to the rearmost one). For quickly switching between half a dozen Acrobat documents, this is a real drawback.

- also missing is one the most useful features of the real Exposé - dragging from one window into Exposé, holding over a window, letting it come to the front and dropping - though Windows sort of lets you do this through the Taskbar anyway.


In conclusion, for $9.95 it is a genuinely useful addition to Windows, overcoming many of the shortcomings of the Taskbar, particularly with large numbers of documents on a small screen. I'd recommend it even though it is a pale imitation of the real thing. I don't know how Apple's intellectual property is affected, but as they say, imitation (or blatant theft) is the sincerest form of flattery.

PS I'm also running another "first on Mac OS X"... Screenshot: top right. Within range of an 802.11b base station, and a pair of iPod earphones, the iTunes Music Store is just made for tablets, and Apple themselves brought it there!

[angelmb]

Originally posted by nickm:
Not very well. At least on my G3-450. It's still usable, just not as slick.

On my G3 350 with PCI Extreme software and a Radeon 7000, works very nice, same for FUS.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by michaelb:
I don't know if this makes me a traitor, but I've actually bought this and installed it on my tablet (well if Apple won't make me one, Motion makes the next best thing).

Wow, I wouldn't consider you a traitor, but that's unfortunate that WinExposé is actually legit... heh.

I'd say it's cool, but then again I'd say it's cool on my Panther box too. Exposé is just cool.

[KraziKid]

There's a free Expose clone that has been around since when Expose was first announced. It is based on the .NET Framework. If memory serves, it is called iEx.

[geekwagon]

Originally posted by michaelb:

- there are no live updates of windows: they are shrunk static thumbnails only

That's what I figured would happen. I couldn't think of a way to do this at the application level, and I doubt that a $10 utility is going to wedge itself low enough into the GDI to intercept the calls from applications to redraw their windows.. that said the last time I did any Windows programming was Windows 95 so there might be a way to do this now.

- apps such as Photoshop and Acrobat with multiple windows do not spread out the windows. You see only a shrunk version of what the app shows you within the master window (see screenshot: left center - there are actually 3 Photoshop documents open, and WinExpose is not helping me get to the rearmost one). For quickly switching between half a dozen Acrobat documents, this is a real drawback.

Ah, the joys of an MDI interface, that is hacked into looking like multiple windows..

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
I don't know about you guys, but that girl in the demo is pretty good looking

She's a babe. That's the kind of Santa that I wouldn't mind have sitting on my lap .

[Macpilot]

It maybe a ripoff, but it appears to work! We all know it is not as elegant as the Apple implementation, but then again, the Mac OS on the whole is elegant, and we all know that as Mac users. I would say that the use of the Expose name is unwarranted, but developing a feature for Windows that emulates a Mac feature is just plain smart! So did Apple "ripoff" WindowsXP with fast user switching?

Everybody knows Microsoft "ripped" off most of the Apple UI, but then again, Apple signed away most of its rights way back, so it is a moot point. Was Microsoft going to continue to market MS-DOS? Come on......

Apple essentially "ripped off" the basic UI of the first Mac from Xerox anyway, and then signed an agreement with MS that allowed MS access to Mac technology. With crappy lawyers and foresight, Apple got shafted in the whole "they stole our UI" thing, so all of this is getting old to the point of beating a dead horse.

Let's say BMW comes out with a 7-speed manual transmission. And then Mercedes unveils one the following year. Is that a ripoff?

Apple's lawyers should be hard at work preparing for all the pissed off iBook owners instead of worrying about this crap. Hopefully, for Apple's sake, they have better ones than in the eighties.

This is just another example of people trying to make XP look and behave like OS X, and it will never work well. Just like those themes for XP that create a pseudo-Dock and other Aqua UI elements for the poor XP guy. They can have their little add-ons and tweaks and hacks, because it will still be a POS underneath.

[iNeusch]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Not for long, they won't.

This violates intellectual-property laws on so many levels it's not even funny. At the very least it violates Apple's trademark, and may well violate patents as well.

Apple will eat these jerks for lunch.

I hope so !
They deserve to get trashed

[iNeusch]

Originally posted by Macpilot:
Let's say BMW comes out with a 7-speed manual transmission. And then Mercedes unveils one the following year. Is that a ripoff?

Except that going from 6 to 7 gears in a natural evolution, while exposé is pure innovation...

[Judge_Fire]

To echo MacPilot:

I think features should be free as in speech. It benefits everybody.

Let the makers compete with innovation and the quality of the implementation, rather than litigation.


Copycats will always trail behind and in cases like this, will always have a hard time trying to hack together a patchwork of superficial features without support from the OS itself. The end result will always be incomplete, like with the Photoshop windows in the example above.

Mac OS X simply has a superb infrastructure for things like this, XP doesn't.


Giving credit should be a part of the deal, though. Using the title 'Expose' while giving no kudos to Apple is selfish and inmature. Even Steven P. Jobs acknowledged Windows has had fast user switching for a long while, and now finally we have it, too.

For this reason alone, I hope someone provides them with a learning experience

J

[powerbook867]

Michael, that is one nice tablet....I've always thought about one, but have never tried one...maybe a stop to compusa is in order today...


Back to topic...it's B.S. that they've copied expose, but charging for has to guarentee that this is criminal...Apple lawyers will have some work to do when they get to work this morning!!

[mikerally]

Expose is a trademark owned by Apple (check the copyright on the installer and packaging), it is used to market their operating system as an appealing product.

By directly marketing a clone of Apple own technology under the same name is clearly an infringement of that trademark.

They must change the name of the product and rearrange the preferences box. This is clearly a direct copy of a product which will gain popularity out of using Apple's brand trademark name - this is why the product is getting so much attention - it's using Apple's name.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by michaelb:
I don't know if this makes me a traitor, but I've actually bought this and installed it on my tablet (well if Apple won't make me one, Motion makes the next best thing).

How did you take the picture with both hands on the tablet?

[iNeusch]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
How did you take the picture with both hands on the tablet?

good point
are you an alien ?
where is your 3rd arm ?

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
How did you take the picture with both hands on the tablet?

He used his Borg ocular implant.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Macpilot:
So did Apple "ripoff" WindowsXP with fast user switching?

If Apple "ripped off" anyone, it wasn't WindowsXP. This sort of thing has existed for decades in other operating systems.

Apple essentially "ripped off" the basic UI of the first Mac from Xerox anyway...

Common misconception. While Xerox did in fact have the first graphical user interface, it was actually quite different from even the original Mac OS interface. Not just in terms of icons and such; it used a completely different paradigm, based around something similar to our modern notion of a toolbar, but still not quite the same.

So while it is true that Apple got the idea for a graphics-based user interface from Xerox, the GUI they actually built was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a rip-off. Unlike that of a certain other company I could name.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
Let the makers compete with innovation and the quality of the implementation, rather than litigation.

Exposé is the innovation! And this company has "stolen" the idea.

You also say to let them compete on quality of implementation. If this company had directly used Apple's source code for their implementation, would you chastize Apple for suing them because they shouldn't be competing with litigation? That's the same logic you're applying now.

[bOOzo]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
How did you take the picture with both hands on the tablet?

LOL

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by bmedina:
Exposé is the innovation! And this company has "stolen" the idea.

You also say to let them compete on quality of implementation. If this company had directly used Apple's source code for their implementation, would you chastize Apple for suing them because they shouldn't be competing with litigation? That's the same logic you're applying now.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Apple invented this thing and should be credited for it. They we're first to market and their implementation, naturally including the code, is quite solid.

Apple, being an innovative sort of company, has no problem coming up with many more great pieces of software. They lead the innovation 'race' by miles. This is well acknowledged even by the PC industry.

That's hard to steal.


The other company 'stole' this idea? Sure. I think it's ok. You can either patent these things and intentionally slow down the evolution of software, or you can let them go and maybe even learn from the other implementations.

If MS had patented 'contextual menu', 'fast user switching' and who knows what trivial things, we'd have it pretty miserable now.

I'd love to see a GPL license for UI elements, like we now have for code. That'd make UI development really interesting.


The other company stole the word 'Expose'? Yes, and that's unacceptable. I don't know if amounts to trademark breach, but I think it should.

J

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by bmedina:
Exposé is the innovation! And this company has "stolen" the idea.

That's one of the hazards of being an innovator ... and also one of it's responsibilities. Innovators get copied ... that's kind of the point of innovating.

[gregomni]

Originally posted by Millennium:
So while it is true that Apple got the idea for a graphics-based user interface from Xerox, the GUI they actually built was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a rip-off. Unlike that of a certain other company I could name.

Another part of the misconception is that even the idea was stolen. Steve Jobs asked the Xerox people if he could bring his engineers in to see what Xerox had, got a tour, and PAID Xerox in Apple stock.

There was no stealing whatsoever - Xerox agreed to the deal.

[iNeusch]

Originally posted by gregomni:
Another part of the misconception is that even the idea was stolen. Steve Jobs asked the Xerox people if he could bring his engineers in to see what Xerox had, got a tour, and PAID Xerox in Apple stock.

There was no stealing whatsoever - Xerox agreed to the deal.

Any Official quote ?

[Wiskedjak]

By the way, is not Safari a rip-off of Netscape? Looks rather similar to me.

[iNeusch]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
By the way, is not Safari a rip-off of Netscape? Looks rather similar to me.

It's based on Konqueror, an open source browser based on (I think) Netscape

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by iNeusch:
It's based on Konqueror, an open source browser based on (I think) Netscape

Ok then, isn't Safari a rip-off of Konqueror?

[iNeusch]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Ok then, isn't Safari a rip-off of Konqueror?

Konqueror is GPL, that's the difference.
It's meant to be copied