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Keiretsu · Jan 11, 2004, 03:39 PM

... and still there are none. One german website shortly hinted at the possibility of a free iPhoto4 download ...

Will we see free downloads Jan 16?

krove · Jan 11, 2004, 04:26 PM

You people are always looking for a freebe, a handout just because Apple used to provide this software for free. "Bait and switch!" scream hoards of Apple fanatics. "They're nickel and diming us to death!" cry the belittled Mac folk.

Is Apple forcing you to upgrade? Did they somehow make your version of OS X unusable because there are now paid upgrades to better versions of iPhoto and iMovie?

People think you're getting nickel and dimed to death because Apple is providing nearly ALL the solutions for which you are looking. In a PC world, you'd be paying this money to numerous vendors, but on this side of the fence, Apple provides all that is great, but you have to pay for it sometimes. In our minds we think, "Gosh, I sure do give Apple a lot of money," but in reality, you're paying far less for more. It just happens to all go to one company, giving you the impression that Apple is getting too much of your money. Get over it. $49 is a steal for all those upgraded apps and one new one.

Don't like it, don't upgrade. It's that simple!

BTW, this is a dumb poll because we know for a fact at this point that iPhoto and iMovie upgrades are only going to be available by paying--unless by some stretch, Apple changes its mind, which seems highly doubtful given even less vocal discord now than during the whole pay-for-iTools (.Mac) debacle.

Axo1ot1 · Jan 11, 2004, 04:50 PM

Keiretsu · Jan 11, 2004, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by krove:
You people are always looking for a freebe, a handout just because Apple used to provide this software for free. "Bait and switch!" scream hoards of Apple fanatics. "They're nickel and diming us to death!" cry the belittled Mac folk.

Did I write I do not want to pay? In fact I ordered iLife 04 right after the Apple Store came back online. But imagine the excitement that a free iPhoto download would cause ... without eating into the sales of iLife 04.
It's been a first for me: no downloads after the keynote ...

Is Apple forcing you to upgrade? Did they somehow make your version of OS X unusable because there are now paid upgrades to better versions of iPhoto and iMovie?

Of course they will at some point. At one point in time the integration with .mac will require "a current" version ... it's a matter of time

People think you're getting nickel and dimed to death because Apple is providing nearly ALL the solutions for which you are looking. In a PC world, you'd be paying this money to numerous vendors, but on this side of the fence, Apple provides all that is great, but you have to pay for it sometimes. In our minds we think, "Gosh, I sure do give Apple a lot of money," but in reality, you're paying far less for more. It just happens to all go to one company, giving you the impression that Apple is getting too much of your money. Get over it. $49 is a steal for all those upgraded apps and one new one.

You're missing some important point: what are those iBook owners with CDROM drives going to get? Read the requirementa? If you have a DVD equipped fast G4, no problem ...

Don't like it, don't upgrade. It's that simple!

BTW, this is a dumb poll because we know for a fact at this point that iPhoto and iMovie upgrades are only going to be available by paying--unless by some stretch, Apple changes its mind, which seems highly doubtful given even less vocal discord now than during the whole pay-for-iTools (.Mac) debacle.

We'll see Jan-16 ... I guess a lot of people would like to get a fast iPhoto ... especially on elder slower Macs that cannot use iDVD or GarageBand ...

krove · Jan 11, 2004, 06:06 PM

My post wasn't meant to rant directly to you but rather to those in other threads who have been whining since last Tuesday, circa 11:00 am PST.

hudson1 · Jan 11, 2004, 07:47 PM

I think you can make a case that those who gave real money to Apple to upgrade to 10.3 should at least be able to get iPhoto 4 in return.

gorickey · Jan 11, 2004, 08:02 PM

All I really wanted was a nice update to Safari; however, that didn't happen...

JKT · Jan 12, 2004, 06:45 AM

I have no objections to Apple charging for their products (other than, yes, I would greatly prefer it if the core iApps were always free - who on earth wouldn't?), but I do object to iPhoto and iMovie not being free upgrades in this instance because the current versions have BIG problems. iPhoto2 has, what is largely unacceptable to many people, bad performance issues which many find make the app unusable in the way it was designed to be used; and iMovie3 is buggy, plain and simple. Is Apple likely to now issue bug-release fixes for these two apps... no they damn well aren't! They are trying to force us into paying for bug fixes and that is what is so unacceptable.

There is also the issue of what this does for Apple in terms of image in the eye of potential platform switchers. Which is better - Apple keeps the core iApps free and receives glowing press for each new version, or Apple charges for every x.x release and suffers howls of complaint?

Mr Scruff · Jan 12, 2004, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by krove:
You people are always looking for a freebe, a handout just because Apple used to provide this software for free. "Bait and switch!" scream hoards of Apple fanatics. "They're nickel and diming us to death!" cry the belittled Mac folk.

I don't understand what it is about this issue that makes people like you act so abusively on a web forum.

So you don't agree - fine - then state your case and move along. This forum is intended for informed discussion between mac users - not unnecessary ranting towards anyone that disagrees with an Apple policy.

krove · Jan 12, 2004, 10:39 AM

I hardly think my argument abusive. Check out some of the NeoOS-related threads. That guy is abusive. Plus my point is well made, so it was worth making.

I am a little peeved after each keynote because inevitably there is someone not happy. Forget all the new stuff we got because we'd rather whine about what we didn't get. When will people grow up and realize that Steve Jobs isn't Santa Claus and cant' give you everything you want for low cost or even free?

[/rant]

krove · Jan 12, 2004, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by JKT:
I have no objections to Apple charging for their products (other than, yes, I would greatly prefer it if the core iApps were always free - who on earth wouldn't?), but I do object to iPhoto and iMovie not being free upgrades in this instance because the current versions have BIG problems. iPhoto2 has, what is largely unacceptable to many people, bad performance issues which many find make the app unusable in the way it was designed to be used; and iMovie3 is buggy, plain and simple. Is Apple likely to now issue bug-release fixes for these two apps... no they damn well aren't! They are trying to force us into paying for bug fixes and that is what is so unacceptable.

There is also the issue of what this does for Apple in terms of image in the eye of potential platform switchers. Which is better - Apple keeps the core iApps free and receives glowing press for each new version, or Apple charges for every x.x release and suffers howls of complaint?

Your complaints about bug fixes are rather limited in scope, however, because I have no problem using the current version of iPhoto. Sure, there are bugs, but they are MINOR, to say the least. They do not interfere with the normal operation of the application. Same goes for iMovie. If there were big crashing issues or image corruption or the likes then your argument might hold more validity, but as it stands, I do not believe minor bugs gets you free software. (The same argument could have been made for all the major releases of Mac OS X barring 10.0, because it lacked major, promised features.)

As for switchers, did you forget that iLife comes FREE on every new Mac? Buy a new Mac, get iLife. How does that not chime with switchers? Nowhere in the PC world do I see software of this caliber being given away for free, so I don't see what their problem will be when they enter the world of Apple and realize they are getting a greater value for less money!

mitchell_pgh · Jan 12, 2004, 11:50 AM

I'm quasi-comfortable with the $49 (actually, I only am going to have to pay $29 because of the ed. discount).

ANYWAY, I'm basically paying for iPhoto.

iDVD - I don't have a DVD burner.

iMovie - I've probably used this application 10 times in the four years of owning my Mac. I simply don't take enough video. I probably wouldn't buy it if it were on it's own.

iPhoto - I use this application all the time and am willing to pay for an upgrade. iPhoto 2 is amazing (but very bogged down at 4000 photos on my 733 Mhz G4)

iTunes - I use this application all the time, but it's already free.

GarageBand - I'm not musically inclined. I live the idea of having the application, but I really will not be using it on a regular basis.

I'm guessing many people are in the same boat... People not using 3/5 of the iApps but really using a few of them. I guess Apple needs to make money considering all the time they invest in these applications.

I don't understand why Apple simply doesn't come out and say "If you subscribe to ".mac pro" for $120 a year, we will give you free upgrades to applications and the OS, plus discounts on other stuff". I would at least consider it at that point.

JKT · Jan 12, 2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by krove:
Your complaints about bug fixes are rather limited in scope, however, because I have no problem using the current version of iPhoto. Sure, there are bugs, but they are MINOR, to say the least. They do not interfere with the normal operation of the application. Same goes for iMovie. If there were big crashing issues or image corruption or the likes then your argument might hold more validity, but as it stands, I do not believe minor bugs gets you free software. (The same argument could have been made for all the major releases of Mac OS X barring 10.0, because it lacked major, promised features.)

I would hardly call being effectively unable to use the app unless you only have less than a hundred or so photos as being a MINOR bug. As for iMovie - the bugs are crashing bugs, they are serious. I wouldn't care if they charged for the new versions of iPhoto etc IF they were to release bug fix updates for the earlier versions - make us pay for the new features if you must, but don't leave us high and dry just because we don't want to fork out yet more money to get a goddamned bug fix.

Originally posted by krove:
As for switchers, did you forget that iLife comes FREE on every new Mac? Buy a new Mac, get iLife. How does that not chime with switchers? Nowhere in the PC world do I see software of this caliber being given away for free, so I don't see what their problem will be when they enter the world of Apple and realize they are getting a greater value for less money!

It is the PERCEPTION that I'm talking about - a switcher is going to see all this press about Apple charging for everything - nothing is free any longer (not strictly true, but that is the notion that is and has been conveyed by the press) and it is extremely negative for Apple.

Anyway, the last of my rants on this issue.

york28 · Jan 12, 2004, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by krove:
Your complaints about bug fixes are rather limited in scope, however, because I have no problem using the current version of iPhoto. Sure, there are bugs, but they are MINOR, to say the least. They do not interfere with the normal operation of the application.

So that means it's ok for me to get the spinning beachball for five to ten seconds when I select a new photo in roll view?

I'm sorry, I guess I hadn't been aware that this was a minor problem.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 12, 2004, 03:04 PM

I'm sorry, I guess some of you forget that we aren't in the .com boom anymore where everything was free.

We have basically lost all of the free stuff. Although I'm not happy about having to shell out cash for something that I feel I should get for free, the applications are worth it.

It sucks that I'm basically for 5 apps when all I'm really using is iPhoto

-Q- · Jan 12, 2004, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by york28:
So that means it's ok for me to get the spinning beachball for five to ten seconds when I select a new photo in roll view?

I'm sorry, I guess I hadn't been aware that this was a minor problem.

I guess it comes down to the old adage: you get what you pay for?