[axlepin]

Is there a feeling or experience that OSX or Mac hardware is going downhill in quality?

axle

[gorickey]

I don't think so....

[MindFad]

Yes. My local news station has a story on it.

[wadesworld]

I think hardware quality has gone up significantly in the last few years.

Wade

[TheTraveller]

Yeah it kind of feels like the quality is going downhill a bit...probably just a cyclical thing, Apple's had bouts with poor quality the past. Design is great though!

[cambro]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Yes. My local news station has a story on it.

Holy crap...it must be true!!!

It seems very unlikely that there are significant trends in either direction, but there lots of anecdotes.

Speaking of which...my TiBook has been used intesively every day for 17 days, serving web pages, running large mySQL databases, connecting and disconnecting to wired and wireless networks, USB, and Firewire devices, projetors, and monitors all without flaw or a restart. So, no complaints about X or hardware here...

[ShotgunEd]

Originally posted by cambro:
Holy crap...it must be true!!!

It seems very unlikely that there are significant trends in either direction, but there lots of anecdotes.

Speaking of which...my TiBook has been used intesively every day for 17 days, serving web pages, running large mySQL databases, connecting and disconnecting to wired and wireless networks, USB, and Firewire devices, projetors, and monitors all without flaw or a restart. So, no complaints about X or hardware here...

17 days? That's gotta be a new record!

[depolitic]

Quality is a relative term, and often mostly subjective. I will however that Apples hardware and OS solutions is far better then anything on the computer market.

Was looking at some PC laptops recently their all just cheap plastic that buckles and makes noise to pressure.

Yes their are occasional problems like the iBook motherboard issues that came up lately, however that is life, all Apple can do make sure that it gets the least amount of bad PR from the whole F. up.

[axlepin]

I posted this question because I heard some people carping for whatever reason, and wanted to know if this was just those people, or if lots of mac users thought Mac gear and OS were not so hot.

can't complain myself, either, and IMO, the craftsmanship on my Dual G5 is top-shelf.

a

[RevEvs]

im not sure if the quality has dropped, or if my high standards just got higher!

revs

[Kenneth]

I somewhat disagree.

For Mac OS X, it is only getting better. The Mac OS team did a good job.

For Apple hardware, my 1996 Performa is still going strong with Mac OS 9.1, however my DP 1.25Ghz G4 (FW800) has some problem (i.e. combo drive, AirPort Extreme, and the noise). The infamous white-spot on the 15" PowerBook and poor AirPort reception on the original PowerBook G4.
I know it is not Apple fault, but Apple needs to input more on TCQ.

[rhogue islander]

I've owned a Quicksilver Dual One Ghz and now a Powermac G5 Dual 2 Ghz. I've never had a single hardware problem.

Except for some bizarre behavior caused by an OS 10.1.5 udpate, OS X has performed in an admirable, stable manner.

[bergy]

I've owned three Macs .. a Performa 5100, a 500 mhz iMac, and an iBook. I have had major hardware issues with all of them. If it wasn't for Applecare I'd be broke.

I'm also on my 4th iPod in just over a year due to hardware problems.

I love the look and working with Apple software. but in my experience, the hardware has disappointed.

Then again .. I've had bad luck with cars, toasters, lawnmowers ... maybe it's just my electromagnetic distortion field!

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by axlepin:
Is there a feeling or experience that OSX or Mac hardware is going downhill in quality?

axle

No, apple must reduce their costs, but compared to the days of smoke belching style writer printers and Apple branded 14'PC monitors, the machines of today are exreemly well built.

OSX is so superior to OS 9 its not worth discussing.

[Scientist]

I get the impression that Apple has some major problems to deal with. From what I've heard from forum members and the media, the iBooks produced today still to have fundamental problems. How long has this been going on? Then there was 15" AIBook problem. The revision A eMacs weren't known as very good machines either. When people ask me for advice buying Apple computers I have been unable to recommend the iBook or the 15" Powerbook. This is a shame, too, because OS X is just so great.

[theolein]

I've owned a PowerMac 7600 and presently own a Lombard G3 Powerbook and a 667 TiBook. I've never had any issues with any of them, which is something I can't say about the PC's I've owned. I have a no name Pc that has had so many broken parts that I would have junked it a long time ago if it wasn't for it being put to good use as a Linux machine right now. I had a Dell laptop that, although it never actively broke, was the epitome of bad manufacturing with hinges that didn't close properly, misaligned joined parts and a general feeling of cheap plastic.

In my experience with Macs and PCs there have been years in which certain Apple products were extremely bad (I think about the extremely poor 3500 Powerbook and the 6500 Performas in the mid 90's) but in general the quality has been excellent compared to the PC world with one exception: IBM. IBM's Thinkpads, while having a standard black plastic outer casing, have a solid metal frame and have always had an excellent reputation in terms of quality, durability and reliability. They are sought after machines and their price shows it- They cost more than Powerbooks.

Apart from IBM though, the PC world is one of cut throat, hair thin, low margins where the computers themselves are throw away commodity objects.

[wataru]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Apple branded 14'PC monitors

14' PC monitors!?

Holy crap!

[IamBob]

Plus, Quadra610, B&W (revA), FPiMac...

My B&W is a revA, need I say more? I got it with a 15" CRT Studio Display that died years ago too.

My FPiMac's superdrive went out several months ago, of course it was outside the warranty...yay!

My Plus and Quadra are still going strong. The Plus is the only one I didn't buy new.

Hmm..that doesn't paint a very good picture.

[Gul Banana]

edit: edited

[Boondoggle]

SE30- Still works-retired
LC II- Still works-retired
Powerbook 165- Still works-retired
Quadra 610- Still works-retired
iMac Rev. B- Still works
B&W G3 300-Still works
iMac DV-Still works
2 iMac G4s- Still works
PowerComputing Powerbase 180- Logic board went south, CD-ROM crapped out. replaced both and added a G3 card, still works and I've actually got Jaguar on it. This is not an Apple system and I had by far the most problems with it.

Refurb Powerbook G4 1.25/15.2- LOVE IT!! No problems so far.

So far the only problems with these systems has been 1 bad ethernet board in the rev. B iMac (probably due to hot plugging) a bad DVD-R in one of the iMac G4's and a fragged modem in the iMac DV, due to an electrical storm. All quickly resolved under standard warrantee.

While the older systems had ZERO problems, it is also quite true that they were much more expensive, and much less complicated. And built in the good ol' USA.

When I compare the features on my Powerbook G4 with some of the PC competition I'm amazed that Apple can make a profit at all. It is with few exceptions more bang for the buck and in a smaller, lighter form factor than anything else I've seen. Pushing the envelope can lead to snags... I can live with that as long as Apple honors the warantee.

[sniffer]

Nothing wrong with OS X. It's the best and most future-proof desktop OS out there in my experience. The hardware is another issue. My experience haven't been all positive, but that's not the point. This discussions needs some statistic, or else this is pretty useless.

[piracy]

There will ALWAYS be one product or another that has one issue or another, e.g., iBook Dual USB video issues, 15" PowerBook screen white spots, the iPod battery (which is really a non-issue , but is getting a lot of attention because of the iPod's popularity), etc., but on the whole, Apple is leaps and bounds better than anyone else out there.

So chill. No, OS X's, or Apple's, quality isn't "going downhill" just because there are a few problems here and there. There will ALWAYS be problems. The key is how the manufacturer RESPONDS to problems. And customers don't seem to have much of a problem with that either.

And just because your lame-assed local news has a "story" on it means nothing. It's all the rage lately to run stories like "APPLE LOSING ITS SHINE" and other stupid sh*t because a couple of disgruntled idiots decided to start web sites. Even those problems represent a vanishingly small percentage of owners of those respective products. But, Apple's tendency to attract many creative types apparently also attracts whiny loudmouths.

[spiky_dog]

Originally posted by Boondoggle:
SE30- Still works-retired
LC II- Still works-retired
Powerbook 165- Still works-retired
Quadra 610- Still works-retired
iMac Rev. B- Still works
B&W G3 300-Still works
iMac DV-Still works
2 iMac G4s- Still works
PowerComputing Powerbase 180- Logic board went south, CD-ROM crapped out. replaced both and added a G3 card, still works and I've actually got Jaguar on it. This is not an Apple system and I had by far the most problems with it.

on the other hand, i offer my anecdote: i sport a power computing powercenter pro 180e (604e, whereas your powerbase had a 603, i believe; also pro line vs. consumer line) as a webserver even to this day, and it runs os x with nary a hiccup.

my other hardware experiences:

LC - a long and happy life, no problems
6100/60 - ditto, although it could only be overclocked to 72 MHz, 75 was just too high
G3/233 - no hardware problems here, either
Lombard/333 - dead head drive, now dead motherboard
iMac DV/350 - no problems
G4/800 - dead ethernet port, noisy, but that's it

[crayz]

piracy - That certainly is good, but I'd hardly say it's "leaps and bounds"

Looks like Apple is about 3% better than Dell, so with 100 Dell users and 100 Apple users, you'd only have 3 more Dell than Apple users complaining about broken hardware.

Again, good for Apple to be on top, but hardly that big a deal from an end-user's perspective, unless you're an institution buying 1000s of machines.

[::maroma::]

Originally posted by spiky_dog:
on the other hand, i offer my anecdote: i sport a power computing powercenter pro 180e (604e, whereas your powerbase had a 603, i believe; also pro line vs. consumer line) as a webserver even to this day, and it runs os x with nary a hiccup.

my other hardware experiences:

LC - a long and happy life, no problems
6100/60 - ditto, although it could only be overclocked to 72 MHz, 75 was just too high
G3/233 - no hardware problems here, either
Lombard/333 - dead head drive, now dead motherboard
iMac DV/350 - no problems
G4/800 - dead ethernet port, noisy, but that's it

Same here. I have a Radius 8100 clone and threw a G3 card in it years ago. When I got a new G4 a few years back, I let my brother have the Radius. He beat the hell out of it, but it's still chuggin along. Pretty rugged machine.

Here are my other machines:

Macintosh Portable (aka Luggable) - I think the power supply is dead.
IIci - Rock solid machine. Still running.
Quadra 650 - Arrived with a dead motherboard. After replaced, very good machine. Still running.
Performa 6115 - Never one problem. Still workin.
Radius 8100 - Still chuggin.
G4/500 (1.3GHz upgrade) - Current machine. Solid as a rock.

[sniffer]

Originally posted by crayz:
Looks like Apple is about 3% better than Dell, so with 100 Dell users and 100 Apple users, you'd only have 3 more Dell than Apple users complaining about broken hardware.

I'd like to hear how you back this up, please.

[Cipher13]

Definately.

Example... the iBook 900 is noticeably poorer, regarding build quality, than the iBook 600 I had, and the iBook 500 I have.

This is true of all the iBooks of that era that I've used. Don't tell me I haven't got a large enough sample size, either, as I work with over 100 iBooks day to day.

Also, seeing friends PowerBook 867's, they're also built quite poorly.

Apple used to really pride itself on these things...

[theolein]

In related news today we have a story on the beleguered Apple corporation....

[Betox]

I've had 5 Macs: Classic, Performa 575, PowerPC 6400, Quick Silver G4 and iBook; never had a single hardware problem. I guess that people doesn't give the proper use or maintenance to their hardware.

[Boondoggle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spiky_dog:
[B]on the other hand, i offer my anecdote: i sport a power computing powercenter pro 180e (604e, whereas your powerbase had a 603, i believe; also pro line vs. consumer line) as a webserver even to this day, and it runs os x with nary a hiccup.


You're right about the processor.. I had the 603e originally. PowerComputing actually made some great hardware. As I said I'm still using mine with Jaguar (and a cheap G3 card. I just had more problems with that one than the Apple systems. I felt that it was due to the generic nature of most of the components, from the case to the drives, powersupplies etc. It seems that the Apple systems had/have a higher grade of components on average.

That also may be true for your more "pro level" PowerCenter.

[Mac The Fork]

Macintosh LC
It started making a funny noise, maybe eleven years ago, but that corrected itself. It still works well, but the PRAM battery is dead.

Macintosh 12" RGB Display
It's a bit dark, but it still works well.

Macintosh LC 475
May have had some floppy drive problems, but I'm unable to confirm this. Otherwise it works fine.

Apple Color Plus 14" Display
This display was sub-par, but it worked. Always blurry and visibly poor quality. The geometry is screwed now.

Macintosh Performa 5200
When the family got this thing, the screen randomly switched to a blue tint. This became more frequent and persistent over time. There was a loud buzzing noise from some component. If I recall correctly, the hard drive and the power supply had to be replaced. System 7.5 was crash-prone, but Apple Guide was nice. This computer was sold.

Power Macintosh G3/233
This shipped with a poorly-secured, extremely noisy CD-ROM drive. Other than that, it works fine.

iMac (Indigo, 500)
The power supply on this machine failed a few weeks into use. We got a new computer after a week or so, and the screen was far too dark. The regular hard drives included with these things tend to develop a whine that makes working with a fanless computer fairly annoying. After installing a Seagate Barracuda, I was able to adjust the brightness to a normal level with the control inside the case.

I can't say I've been amazed by Apple's quality. I have a feeling Macs were made better during the Sculley era, but then there are a bunch of things that could confound that judgment.

[Lyric OS 13.0]

I have had my Indigo 500 iMac for about 2 years, and she is still taking care of business. I have never had any hardware problems at all...

Overall it is the best computer I have used to date. It is much better to Run OS X on that, then use my partitioned 120 GB ext. hard drive to take care of storage.

She (because my computer is female) is almost always on, and ready to work. The only thing I need to do with her is to upgrade her RAM some more.

Overall I am very pleased with her. Hardware wise--I have swapped out 3 keyboards, added a new mouse, a USB hub, the new HD, a CD Burner, and a printer. The printer is the thing I having trouble with though...

For my iMac (in face of all of the new stuff I want use,) 9/10.

My happy iMac still goes strong.