[ceilingfan]

I have a Dual G5 with 512megs of Apple ram, 512 megs of Crucial ram, 220 gig harddrive, 9800 video card, and the latest Panther updates. In the last week or so, I've had an escalating number of kernal panics a day (computer freezes with a gray screen saying to reboot). It started with 1 a day, and finally moved up to about 12 a day.

They would happen at random: browsing in Safari, making playlists in iTunes, using iPhoto, at the Log In screen when the system boots (before I even had a chance to pick a user), etc. I even had a kernal panic when I booted from the Install CD to use the Disk Utility.

I've also had a problem recently were the Finder will freeze up, and it can not be relaunched or force quit. Other applications will work fine for a short period, but then they too will freeze. The system will not reboot, because the Finder won't quit, so I have to hold the power button to turn the system off.

I've tried Disk Utility (after booting from the Install CD, all the tests came out OK but after it was all done I had a kernal panic), and I did the Apple Hardware Test and didn't find anything wrong. I took out the 512 megs of ram I got from Crucial, and I've had 3 kernal panic in the last half hour. I hadn't had any for months. I haven't installed any new software or hardware. I don't have any peripherals connected.

I don't think it's the OS, because it crashed when I booted from the Install CD. Is there a way I can test the ram to make sure it's alright? Where can I look for a log of what the error was? I don't notice anything in the console; what specifically should I look for? What can I do?

[gorickey]

It must be RAM as far as I can tell...have you taken out the Apple RAM (only have Crucial installed)?

[ceilingfan]

I'll try that now.

There doesn't happen to be a utility some where that I can use to test the ram, is there? I've tried the Apple Hardware Test, but didn't see anything there.

[gorickey]

I just found this, not sure if it works or not:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/14004

The Apple Hardware Test will test for bad RAM...

[jeff_yecn]

Originally posted by ceilingfan:
I'll try that now.

There doesn't happen to be a utility some where that I can use to test the ram, is there? I've tried the Apple Hardware Test, but didn't see anything there.

You can try MemTest. You can find it from http://friskythecat.tripod.com/

[Millennium]

Could you paste in the last trace or two from these kernel panics? They might hold a clue as to what's going on.

Also, might this be heat-related? Did you remove the air deflector from the machine and perhaps forget to put it back? Is the room unusually hot for some reason? Have you tried touching the machine near the processors; if so, is it warm?

[larkost]

Note: Computers are not good memory testers. You will find the really bad cases, but the annoying edge cases will go undiscovered. There is a reason for the $500 hardware memory testers out there.

I do agree that the most likely cause is memory. Take out the extra and see if the problems go away. Other things to check are all peripherals. I have seen a case where a bad connection on a USB mouse caused something like this. In that case there was a nice entry in the system log to help me track it down.

[ceilingfan]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Could you paste in the last trace or two from these kernel panics? They might hold a clue as to what's going on.

Also, might this be heat-related? Did you remove the air deflector from the machine and perhaps forget to put it back? Is the room unusually hot for some reason? Have you tried touching the machine near the processors; if so, is it warm?

I'm not sure where to find the crash information. I've looked in the console, but I'm not sure which logs to focus on. Is there a kernal panic record somewhere?

I also considered it may be heat related, but it's not particularly warm around the computer, and none of it feels abnormally warm inside it. I turned the temp down in my room, anyway.

Excluding the keyboard, and the mouse connected to it, I have no peripherals plugged in. The keyboard is pretty firm in there.

I put all the memory back in the computer, and did the memtest, and it found no errors. I'm just using the Crucial ram now.

Weird thing: after the memtest was finished, I wanted to see if I could cause a panic by using a ram intensive program. I tried loading Quake3 and UT2K3, but neither would launch because they couldn't find a OpenGl video card. After I removed the Apple ram, they worked fine. Not sure if this is related to the memtest or something wrong in that boot, but I hadn't noticed it happening before.

[gorickey]

You can find your "panic.log" at:

/Library/Logs/

[ceilingfan]

Originally posted by gorickey:
You can find your "panic.log" at:

Thanks!

I'm only Crucial ram now, and I had a freeze. Every program froze, including the dock (but iTunes still played music in the background), with the spinning beach ball. I had to hold the Power button to shut the machine off and reset.

It's all labeled as cpu1 stuff.

Here's the latest:

*********

Tue Feb 3 09:14:05 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x00000000294EB000 PC=0x000000000575FA78, MSR=0x100000000200F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2846D280)
PC=0x0575FA78; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x294EB000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x0575F3E4; R1=0xBFFFC7D0; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

Wed Feb 4 16:29:14 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x0000000004994008 PC=0x0000000090001800, MSR=0x100000000200F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x00955A00)
PC=0x90001800; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x04994008; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90001260; R1=0xBFFFE480; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

Wed Feb 4 17:09:13 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x0000000004994008 PC=0x0000000090001800, MSR=0x100000000200F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x00955A00)
PC=0x90001800; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x04994008; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90001260; R1=0xBFFFE480; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

Wed Feb 4 17:20:11 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x00000000E11CD000 PC=0x0000000090001800, MSR=0x100000000000F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x1D9BA000)
PC=0x90001800; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0xE11CD000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90001260; R1=0xBFFFEBA0; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

[Cory Bauer]

If yanking the memory doesn't help, go ahead and repair disk permissions on your system drive with Disk Utility. That might do the trick. I don't know what all the Panic log information means, but it appears your kernel panics are consistently being caused by the same problem.

Double-check and see if you have any 3rd party utilities installed on your machine: anything from Norton, any virus protection software, any haxies, etc. If you have any, please list them here. Good luck!

[ceilingfan]

Originally posted by Cory Bauer:
If yanking the memory doesn't help, go ahead and repair disk permissions on your system drive with Disk Utility. That might do the trick. I don't know what all the Panic log information means, but it appears your kernel panics are consistently being caused by the same problem.

Double-check and see if you have any 3rd party utilities installed on your machine: anything from Norton, any virus protection software, any haxies, etc. If you have any, please list them here. Good luck!

I've got no 3rd party utilities installed at all. I've kept things clean since I installed Panther.

I did a repair permissions/error check with Disk Utility (after booting from the install cd), and everything checked out OK, but then I got a kernal panic after the test was done while I was still in the Disk Utility. That's why it seems like something more than the OS installation, because even when booted from the cd it crashes.

[gorickey]

You quite possibly have a bad mother/logic board...

[awaspaas]

Why is kernel such a hard word to spell?

[Cipher13]

I haven't read any posts in here, including the original.

But... 12 a day? RAM most likely, logic board second most likely.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I haven't read any posts in here, including the original.

In a hurry?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ceilingfan:
I tried loading Quake3 and UT2K3, but neither would launch because they couldn't find a OpenGl video card. After I removed the Apple ram, they worked fine. Not sure if this is related to the memtest or something wrong in that boot, but I hadn't noticed it happening before.

That would point to it actually being the Apple-installed RAM (**** happens, even to Apple).

You can also try removing and re-seating the video card.

Sometimes add-on cards get *slightly* dislodged by transport or temperature variations or oxydization or whatever, causing voltage fluctuation across the contacts, and just re-inserting the card will fix problems.

-s*

[Ω]

Given that you are also in the apple discussion pages, I would suggest you look for posts by Lisa Clark as they seem to mirror your problem.

Summary:

"I ended up taking the machine in to the Apple store and it turns out that one of the processors was dead. What's odd is that I ran the extended hardware test multiple times and everything passed."

Hope this helps

[ceilingfan]

Originally posted by _?_:
I would suggest you look for posts by Lisa Clark as they seem to mirror your problem.

Yep, her problems and panic logs look very similar to mine. It looks like I'll have to go and send the machine in.

If a cpu is dead or dying, would it work at all? Someone else suggested that to me last night, so I opened activity monitor, and opened enough programs and media to max out both processors and everything worked fine (for now).

My last hope before turning to Apple is that it is heat related. I had the temperature in my room upwards of 80 degrees F to combat the cold outside. Would that create conditions that would make things too hot for the already warm computer to function correctly? I thought the fans would kick up, but do they function based on the cpu strain, and not temperature?

[wadesworld]

No, they function on temperature. Eighty degrees is certainly not too hot.

Wade

[apollo11]

Aug 2003 New 17 inch iMac

(let "repair" = repair permissions+ fsck + NVram reset + delete finder plist)

late Aug 2003 Crashes repeatedly "repair" -> Apple support zilch-> sent into Apple , returned nothin' wrong

Sept 2003 multiple crashes "repair" + Apple support-> FCP delete and reinstall

Novem 2003 Multiple crashes "repair" Apple support zilch -> sent into Apple reinstalled Jaguar

December 2003 installed Airport extreme -> startup > 120 seconds will not boot from super drive, Apple support zilch "repair" sent into Apple, NEW LOGIC BOARD!

Returned with same problem, will not boot from super drive, start up now >3 minutes(thank goodness for sleep) "repair" sent to Apple. Told probably Apple installed memory problem. I suggested it could be the Airport card, declined by engineer.

Apple engineer called, Guess what! says he forgot to put in airport card and did a flawless startup and superdrive boot.

Feb 2004 awaiting new airport card and return of iMac


Do you have an airport card that could be at fault?

[ceilingfan]

I don't have an Airport card, unfortunately.

I hadn't had any kernel panics in several days, and then I had five last night in the span of an hour. I'm still not sure what's wrong, because they happened while I was either browsing in Safari or using Photoshop.

I'm going to call Apple this afternoon.

[milhous]

The logs all point to CPU1 as the processor which experienced the panic. Perhaps the first CPU is simply bad? If it was a logic board issue, would the log still cite a CPU as the cause of the panic?

[ceilingfan]

Double post, oops.

[ceilingfan]

milhouse, that's what I'm thinking. It looks like processor 1 is bad.

I just called Apple, and they said they won't talk to me on the phone about it because my 90 days of phone support ended. I've still got a year left on my hardware warrenty. I'm 350 miles away from the nearest Apple store/reseller, so I can't take it anywhere.

I've got to spend $250 on Applecare just so I can verify its a hardware problem, and have them help me fix a problem that I didn't create.

[mattyd]

that's not right. i once had a hardware problem after my 90 days of phone support were up but within the one year hardware warranty. since i didn't have applecare either, when i called apple for help they made me provide a credit card number "just in case" it wasn't a hardware issue after all (in which case they would have charged me for the support call). anyway, it turned out to be a harware issue (bad airport base station) and they replaced it and i did not have to pay for the call or the replacement.

sounds like they're trying to pressure you into buying applecare.

[mamamia]

what he said.

[ceilingfan]

With that information, I was able to call Apple, and verify that it was a hardware problem. They were also able to point me in the direction of an Apple reseller that is only 100 miles away.

Thanks mattyd, I'm less up a creek than I thought I was.

[mattyd]

glad to help.

by the way... if they were able to confirm that it was a harware issue (they made me go through several tests with them on the phone) they should have offered to send you a pre-paid airborne express box for you to ship your computer to apple for repair. you shouldn't have to drive 100 miles. of course, if you'd prefer not to let your g5 out of your sight (and i wouldn't blame you) it's your call.