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Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 05:39 AM

I just bought and installed Panther, upgrading from 10.2.8. I'm running a G4 with 800Mhz processor, 1024 MB of RAM and a 30 GB hard drive. All of my drivers and firmware were updated before the install and everything was working properly. However, after the install I would get a blank/black screen after it booted up. After talking with Apple we troubleshot for a while and after installing my OLD stock video card it worked. Why is this a problem? My nVidia is so much newer than the ATI Rage Pro. Absolutely no one I've talked to has this problem. I even spoke to a person at my local Apple Store and the guy was using the same configuration as me and his card was working fine. Nothing on the Apple site or nVidia site either. Does anyone have any suggestions? I got this card a few months ago and love it. I didn't spend the money on Panther just to have to replace other components! Of course, I just bought Jaguar a year ago too but that's beside the point. Anyway, I welcome any and all suggestions. Thanks in advance!

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 19, 2004, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Frycster:
I just bought and installed Panther, upgrading from 10.2.8. I'm running a G4 with 800Mhz processor, 1024 MB of RAM and a 30 GB hard drive. All of my drivers and firmware were updated before the install and everything was working properly. However, after the install I would get a blank/black screen after it booted up. After talking with Apple we troubleshot for a while and after installing my OLD stock video card it worked. Why is this a problem? My nVidia is so much newer than the ATI Rage Pro. Absolutely no one I've talked to has this problem. I even spoke to a person at my local Apple Store and the guy was using the same configuration as me and his card was working fine. Nothing on the Apple site or nVidia site either. Does anyone have any suggestions? I got this card a few months ago and love it. I didn't spend the money on Panther just to have to replace other components! Of course, I just bought Jaguar a year ago too but that's beside the point. Anyway, I welcome any and all suggestions. Thanks in advance!

Just what card did you buy a couple of months ago? I use a Gforce 2 MX card in my G4 450 DP and it works just fine with Panther.

David Lee · Feb 19, 2004, 08:39 AM

Did you update all the way to 10.3.2? Or just to Panther 10.3? There was a fix included in 10.3.2 for the nVidia 2MX and 4MX video cards, which would work OK if you had 256MB of RAM or less (hardly ideal is it?) but not with more RAM. 10.3.2 fixed that totally, so you may have a different problem. Try running Software update with the old video card installed and then switch back after that. Still not working? Reseated the Video card? ah, suddenly ran out of ideas, let me ruminate on that.... (and good luck)

Cheers

Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 11:28 AM

I'm running the latest update for Panther and tried once again to reseat the card I made sure it was snug. Nothing. Can't believe this.

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 19, 2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Frycster:
I'm running the latest update for Panther and tried once again to reseat the card I made sure it was snug. Nothing. Can't believe this.

You might have a bad card or the contacts on the card may have some corrosion on them. Try this. Remove the card and lightly go over the contacts with a pencil eraser. Make sure you don't damage any of the contacts and be sure you gently wipe them off with a clean lent free cloth. Then reseat the card and try and reboot. You also might try booting into OS 9 instead of OS X.

Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 01:59 PM

Well, I started up in 9 and it worked! When I changed back to Panther I had nothing. I'm able to boot from the install disk and it shows up but not when I'm doing it regularly. Also I noticed something funny. When I used command F in OS 9 and punched in nVidia it found a file in my "Receipts" folder in librbary that was titled deletenvidiadriver. When in Panther this doesn't show up. What could this mean? Will I find out who really killed JFK when this is all done? I've never had such a problem before!

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 19, 2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Frycster:
Well, I started up in 9 and it worked! When I changed back to Panther I had nothing. I'm able to boot from the install disk and it shows up but not when I'm doing it regularly. Also I noticed something funny. When I used command F in OS 9 and punched in nVidia it found a file in my "Receipts" folder in librbary that was titled deletenvidiadriver. When in Panther this doesn't show up. What could this mean? Will I find out who really killed JFK when this is all done? I've never had such a problem before!

Do you have access to Diskwarrior? If you do try running it against your OS X disk.

Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 04:58 PM

I'll give it a shot. I ran it the day before I got Panther. Maybe that will help. I'll post my findings.

Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 07:27 PM

Here's the deal. It works! However I'm afraid to reboot it. I ran diskwarrior, then reinstalled the nVidia card and it didn't work. I then reset it and held control, apple, shift, p and r (thinking I was resetting PRAM) and it loaded but said "Soft Boot" when it was booting up. What's this about? I'm not going to shut this thing down until I hear what you think. I'm too scared now. Also, what IS the proper way to reset or zap the PRAM? Thanks!

Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 08:33 PM

Well, here's yet another hitch. I'm now having problems with moving windows around on my desk top. If I grab a window from the top the window becomes unreadable and repeats itself visually. Kind of like what happens when you use a "no clip" cheat in a 1st person shooter game and go through a wall. No idea whats up now. Any help would be great. I have a MAG innovision 986FS monitor and am wondering if I should check and see if a driver or update is needed. Will post with results. Until then...

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 19, 2004, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Frycster:
Here's the deal. It works! However I'm afraid to reboot it. I ran diskwarrior, then reinstalled the nVidia card and it didn't work. I then reset it and held control, apple, shift, p and r (thinking I was resetting PRAM) and it loaded but said "Soft Boot" when it was booting up. What's this about? I'm not going to shut this thing down until I hear what you think. I'm too scared now. Also, what IS the proper way to reset or zap the PRAM? Thanks!

It sounds to me that you've got it. Do a normal shutdown, wait about a minute and then power up.

Frycster · Feb 19, 2004, 09:16 PM

No drivers available/need for my monitor. When change the resolution it goes blank again. Maybe Apple has some help now that I have the display up.

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 20, 2004, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by Frycster:
No drivers available/need for my monitor. When change the resolution it goes blank again. Maybe Apple has some help now that I have the display up.

What monitor are you using?

Frycster · Feb 20, 2004, 01:15 AM

MAG Innovision 986FS. No drivers are available.

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 20, 2004, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by Frycster:
MAG Innovision 986FS. No drivers are available.

It sounds to me like you have identified your problem. Maybe its time to splurge and buy a new monitor. Good luck.

Xyphoid Process · Feb 20, 2004, 09:55 AM

Almost everything people have mentioned above is wrong.

There is a problem with GeForce2MX cards in Sawtooths running in any version of Panther. Digital Audio G4s etc... are not affected. The cards work just fine in OS9 and Jaguar. Essentially, GeForce2MX cards will not work properly in Panther if there is more than 256MB of RAM installed.

Geforce4 cards had the same problem, but that was fixed in 10.3.2 (some people had success with GeForce2 cards in 10.3.2 but I'm skeptical).

If you have a Sawtooth and GeForce2 (flashed or Mac), you have three options:

1. Downgrade to your Rage128Pro or buy another card.

2. Run with 256MB of RAM installed. This gives you Quartz Extreme, but less memory.

3. Remove the nVidia drivers, so that the system ignores your card's special features. This allows >256MB RAM but disables Quartz Extreme. Instructions are here:
http://eshop.macsales.com/Reviews/Fr...nvidia103.html

For more details, look here:
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/action...36&-search

Finally, keep your fingers crossed that the problem will be fixed in 10.3.3.

Frycster · Feb 20, 2004, 10:49 AM

I did the switch out of the geforce.kext file as stated in the above link. Still have a problem. It works in Safe Boot but when I try using ProTools it tells me it's being used by another application. This, however DOESN'T happen when I do a regular boot and have the problems with the funky looking windows. I guess I'll just safe boot the system until I need to do a session. FYI - I have the latest updates for ProTools for Panther.

Xyphoid Process · Feb 20, 2004, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Frycster:
I did the switch out of the geforce.kext file as stated in the above link. Still have a problem. It works in Safe Boot but when I try using ProTools it tells me it's being used by another application. This, however DOESN'T happen when I do a regular boot and have the problems with the funky looking windows. I guess I'll just safe boot the system until I need to do a session. FYI - I have the latest updates for ProTools for Panther.

SafeBoot works because it avoids loading the problem nVidia drivers... very annoying situation.

Frycster · Feb 20, 2004, 01:22 PM

Well, folks I'm biting the bullet and shopping for a new card. I spent an hour with Apple again and we came to the same conclusion. Thanks for all of your help.

Back up 15 and punt · Feb 20, 2004, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Frycster:
Well, folks I'm biting the bullet and shopping for a new card. I spent an hour with Apple again and we came to the same conclusion. Thanks for all of your help.

Here is my configuration. I run a G4 450/DP box with 2gig of ram and I use the Gforce2 MX card. I have absolutely no problems running Panther (10.3.2) or for that matter any previous OS. Is your card a PCI or AGP?

Frycster · Feb 20, 2004, 07:12 PM

AGP

dtriska · Feb 21, 2004, 01:30 AM

I don't have a miracle solution, but I do want to post a few things:

1) The GeForce and Panther problem was with Sawtooth boards only. Since you have an 800 MHz G4, you don't have a Sawtooth board and thus don't need to fool around with kexts, etc.

2) The key combo for zapping PRAM is cmd-opt-p-r. I haven't tried, but the Soft Boot should be OS X's version of starting up without extensions. Basically, the key combo you used to try and zap the PRAM included the shift key. Holding the shift key during booting bypasses various extensions and services, such as the nVidia kext. So, your card was recognized as a generic video card and you got very basic video support (no Quartz Extreme, etc.).

3) I assume you've done all this, but just in case: zap the PRAM; reset the board by pressing the CUDA button; and, finally, try reinstalling Panther by using Archive and Install. This will install a fresh system but keep your user prefs, etc.

Frycster · Feb 21, 2004, 08:12 PM

I actually have a 400 MHz G4 that I upgraded to a 800MHz. I'm not sure if it's sawtooth or not. How would I tell? I'll try to reset the PRAM. I'm not sure what the CUDA button switch. Can you tell me? In the mean time I have my new video card coming in on Monday or Tuesday. I'm not going to open it until I exhaust all the possibilities with the GeForce2. I'll wait for your post before I do the CUDA thing. Thanks.

dtriska · Feb 21, 2004, 09:12 PM

Ah, that makes a big difference. The first Power Mac G4s with AGP graphics had Sawtooth boards. You can find computer code names at Apple History.

As posted above, the workaround for GeForce4MX cards seemed to work for many people with GeForce2MX cards. If playing with the kexts doesn't help, then you're probably out of luck and will need to use the video card you ordered.

The CUDA button is used when you've made some sort of hardware change that requires the system to take another look at the board. It's mostly used for processor upgrades, but is also used by some after RAM or video card upgrades, as well as simple troubleshooting. The button looks like this, and is located somewhere on the board. The location varies, so I'm afraid I can't give you a more exact location.

Frycster · Feb 22, 2004, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by dtriska:
Ah, that makes a big difference. The first Power Mac G4s with AGP graphics had Sawtooth boards. You can find computer code names at Apple History.

As posted above, the workaround for GeForce4MX cards seemed to work for many people with GeForce2MX cards. If playing with the kexts doesn't help, then you're probably out of luck and will need to use the video card you ordered.

The CUDA button is used when you've made some sort of hardware change that requires the system to take another look at the board. It's mostly used for processor upgrades, but is also used by some after RAM or video card upgrades, as well as simple troubleshooting. The button looks like this, and is located somewhere on the board. The location varies, so I'm afraid I can't give you a more exact location.

Gave it a shot. Nothing. Thanks, though.

Xyphoid Process · Mar 1, 2004, 03:31 PM

Looks like someone might have found a solution for getting a GeForce2 to work properly in a Sawtooth under Panther w/>256mb ram.

Apparently if you flash the card with the rom for a TwinView GeForce2MX, it will work with 10.3.2. Your card will show in the profiler as a TwinView, even though it only supports a single display.

Go to the Apple discussion board and look for the following thread:
Home > Mac OS X > Mac OS X v10.3 Panther > Installation and Setup > after installing panther screen goes black

This link might work:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/Ma...DvXaC4Kdao.16@

Instructions are contained in the thread. I'm going to try this myself when I get home tonight - here's hoping!

Xyphoid Process · Mar 1, 2004, 07:35 PM

Just flashed my Asus v7100 GeForce2MX with the Twinview rom (1075), and it works great. Now running with QE enabled and 512mb of ram! This is much better...

legacyb4 · Jun 11, 2004, 05:49 PM

Worked for me!

Went from ROM version 1045F to 1075 and now I'm back up to 1GB of RAM under 10.3.4.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Xyphoid Process:
Looks like someone might have found a solution for getting a GeForce2 to work properly in a Sawtooth under Panther w/>256mb ram.

Apparently if you flash the card with the rom for a TwinView GeForce2MX, it will work with 10.3.2. Your card will show in the profiler as a TwinView, even though it only supports a single display.

Go to the Apple discussion board and look for the following thread:
Home > Mac OS X > Mac OS X v10.3 Panther > Installation and Setup > after installing panther screen goes black

This link might work:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/Ma...DvXaC4Kdao.16@

Instructions are contained in the thread. I'm going to try this myself when I get home tonight - here's hoping!