[bkb]

Hi,
I'm trying to log in by typing >console in the log in screen, but unfortunately, it doens't work. It asks me for a username/password. when i type them in, it says, "login failed" and it takes me back to the login in screen. If i type in >console again, my computer just locks up.

Any ideas what's going on?

[chabig]

My experience with Panther says you can only use <console once, then you have to reboot to do it again. Once your'e there, though, your normal username and password should log you in. Make sure the caps lock key is turned off, though. And be sure not to make any typing mistakes because you can't backspace and you apparently only get one try.

Chris

[JNI]

Originally posted by bkb:
Hi,
I'm trying to log in by typing >console in the log in screen, but unfortunately, it doens't work. It asks me for a username/password. when i type them in, it says, "login failed" and it takes me back to the login in screen. If i type in >console again, my computer just locks up.

Any ideas what's going on?

I don't think there is any truth to the post that says you can only log in as >console once. I was able to log in, out and in multiple times with no problems.

When you do log in using >console in the login screen, (no spaces, no tabs, no password) it should change to a text mode screen and give you a login: prompt. Enter the user name, and then return. Then it will ask you for a password.

Are you sure you are typing the correct name/password? The same one that works in the GUI? What about a different account? Have you ever been successful doing it with that machine before? (i.e. has it changed behavior over time?) Can you open a terminal and type 'login' there? Are there any error messages reported to the console or system log?

Maybe repair permissions or something like that. Maybe the root account needs to be enabled for it to work (though it doesn't seem like it should) If none of that works, then something's wrong with your install. Since it works for me, it's not an inherent issue with all Panther installs.

[bkb]

Originally posted by JNI:
I don't think there is any truth to the post that says you can only log in as >console once. I was able to log in, out and in multiple times with no problems.

When you do log in using >console in the login screen, (no spaces, no tabs, no password) it should change to a text mode screen and give you a login: prompt. Enter the user name, and then return. Then it will ask you for a password.

Are you sure you are typing the correct name/password? The same one that works in the GUI? What about a different account? Have you ever been successful doing it with that machine before? (i.e. has it changed behavior over time?) Can you open a terminal and type 'login' there? Are there any error messages reported to the console or system log?

Maybe repair permissions or something like that. Maybe the root account needs to be enabled for it to work (though it doesn't seem like it should) If none of that works, then something's wrong with your install. Since it works for me, it's not an inherent issue with all Panther installs.

Hello JNI,
Thank you for your post. I opened terminal and tried logging in. Again - same problem. However, what I didn't realize is that in UNIX the username is case sensitive, whereas in the GUI login, it isn't. Problem solved.

The second issue I am having is this. Please could you try it on your machine and let me know if you expeirence it. Try going into the >console from the GUI login window. Now type the wrong username and password. It should take you back to the GUI login window. No problem so far. No, please type >console again. Does your machine freeze up here? Mine does. Any ideas? Reparied permissions and so far my clean install of Panther has been flawless.

Thanks,
BKB.

[bkb]

Hello again,
Another strange thing happens, not sure if this is a known bug. After I read your message I logged out of my account and typed >console at the GUI login window. Again - blue screen and computer sort of locked up, although my mouse was working. I had to hold down the power button for five seconds (cold reboot?) and then - from the GUI login window - was able to get into >console & login to my account (on the first try). I was also able to logout and get into my account.

Two things seem to be happening:
1) Once I log into the GUI I am unable to go back to >console
2) If my first login attempt at the >console fails, I can't go back in for another

In both cases I get that blue screen.

Is this normal?

Thanks,
BKB.

[chabig]

On my machine, I can only log into >console after boot, before using the GUI. Once I've logged into the GUI, the machine will no longer go to >console. I don't know if this is a bug or a security feature.

Chris

[bkb]

Originally posted by chabig:
On my machine, I can only log into >console after boot, before using the GUI. Once I've logged into the GUI, the machine will no longer go to >console. I don't know if this is a bug or a security feature.

Chris

What happens if you TRY to log into console, after logging out of the GUI?

[chabig]

Well it's been a while since I tried, so on your urging I just tried again. I take back everything I said. I can log into and out the GUI and the >console over and over, indefinitely.

Chris

[JNI]

OK, maybe there is some weirdness here.

On my TiBook running 10.3.2 GM (7D24), if I do fresh boot and login to >console, then exit, then try again (with an intentional bad login name) and exit, I get a Blue Screen. The only way out is a reset/reboot.

If I log into the GUI first, then do the same, it works fine no matter how many times I log in and out of >console.

So it seems there is something different about doing it before going into the GUI.

BUT...

On my DP 500 running 7F32 it all works fine under all cases. Even with a fresh boot I can log in/out of >console multiple times. So it sounds like that may be a bug that was squashed in the latest builds.

It is possible that there is something different about the TiBook vs. the DP500. I'm not willing to install 7F32 on my TiBook yet to test that case (I like to keep one machine on the GM builds exactly for this kind of testing.)

[Sorry Apple if you are watching and I have violated my NDA. It was a 'side effect' of troubleshooting this. I'd file a bug report, but it looks like you've already got it covered. At least I'm saying that 7F32 is *better* than 7D24...]

[bkb]

Originally posted by JNI:
OK, maybe there is some weirdness here.

On my TiBook running 10.3.2 GM (7D24), if I do fresh boot and login to >console, then exit, then try again (with an intentional bad login name) and exit, I get a Blue Screen. The only way out is a reset/reboot.

If I log into the GUI first, then do the same, it works fine no matter how many times I log in and out of >console.

So it seems there is something different about doing it before going into the GUI.

BUT...

On my DP 500 running 7F32 it all works fine under all cases. Even with a fresh boot I can log in/out of >console multiple times. So it sounds like that may be a bug that was squashed in the latest builds.

It is possible that there is something different about the TiBook vs. the DP500. I'm not willing to install 7F32 on my TiBook yet to test that case (I like to keep one machine on the GM builds exactly for this kind of testing.)

[Sorry Apple if you are watching and I have violated my NDA. It was a 'side effect' of troubleshooting this. I'd file a bug report, but it looks like you've already got it covered. At least I'm saying that 7F32 is *better* than 7D24...]

Hi JNI,
So what you're saying is 10.3.3 will solve my problem? If so, good & thanks for taking a look. Look forward to testing this out in the next Panther update.

Chabig, I assume you're using 10.3.3 also, correct?

[JNI]

Originally posted by bkb:

So what you're saying is 10.3.3 will solve my problem? If so, good & thanks for taking a look. Look forward to testing this out in the next Panther update.

Chabig, I assume you're using 10.3.3 also, correct?

That seems to be the case. Of course, after about 8 reboots on two machines, I could have mixed up my data. But I did get a stuck blue screen on my TiBook, and never on my DP500.

It's possible that chabig didn't note the difference between a fresh boot scenario and a post GUI login one. Or maybe he doesn't want to admit to using a beta build ;-)

So bkb, why are you so interested in using >console mode? Are you running different window managers or something like that?

[bkb]

Originally posted by JNI:
That seems to be the case. Of course, after about 8 reboots on two machines, I could have mixed up my data. But I did get a stuck blue screen on my TiBook, and never on my DP500.

It's possible that chabig didn't note the difference between a fresh boot scenario and a post GUI login one. Or maybe he doesn't want to admit to using a beta build ;-)

So bkb, why are you so interested in using >console mode? Are you running different window managers or something like that?

Nope. Nothing like that. Just exploring my Mac . Really a UNIX novice, if that, but the learning is fairly easy, especially from my DOS days. I've been through this tutorial:

http://osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/index.ws

which was pretty good. Finding tutorials on UNIX isn't difficult, but it isn't that easy to find Mac specific primers. Any suggestions?

Thanks again.

[chabig]

Chabig, I assume you're using 10.3.3 also, correct?

Actually, no. I don't have access to prerelease Apple stuff. I'm running 10.3.2.

I used to think there was a difference between post-boot <console and post GUI >console. Now I'm not so sure I see a difference.

Chris

[JNI]

Originally posted by bkb:

Finding tutorials on UNIX isn't difficult, but it isn't that easy to find Mac specific primers. Any suggestions?

There are plenty of sites that focus on OS X specifics. Besides this forum (which has always been great) I have gotten a lot of good OS X specific tips from http://www.macosxhints.com.

One of the great things about OS X is that you can leverage all the *nix info out there with often none or very minor translation to apply it to OS X. Unix has been around for decades, so it is not surprising that there is so much info out there. OS X has only been around for a couple of years, and it is still changing with each release, so it will just take time for all the nitty gritty info to mature and propagate.

There is an infinite amount of potential questions regarding any system, I don't think there is any one site or book that will tell you everything there is to know. Just take one question at a time, do some googling and some posting, and you will get more and more comfortable over time. I have used *nix systems for over 20 years, and Macs since the beginning, and have read a number of books and done tons of web searching over the years. So my knowledge has just been a result of patience and perseverance. Anything worth using is worth spending the time to learn. And there are plenty of people more than willing to lend a hand.

Good luck, share what you learn with others, and have fun.

[bkb]

Originally posted by JNI:
There is an infinite amount of potential questions regarding any system

How true. But what I'm discovering is that the more I delve into UNIX, the easier it is to use the GUI. Is this a known fact?

Is learning UNIX the way to wisdom, so to speak

Thanks,
BKB.

[JNI]

Originally posted by bkb:
But what I'm discovering is that the more I delve into UNIX, the easier it is to use the GUI. Is this a known fact?

Is learning UNIX the way to wisdom, so to speak

Thanks,
BKB.

I think it depends on the individual. Some people, like myself, like to know why and how things work. That gives me a solid foundation to build on. Other's are more interested in just things like "tell me how to do this or that" without wanting to know the underlying mechanisms. You seem to be interested in the digging into the details. I personally think when one understands more of the internals, it makes the rest seem so simple, as you can understand how it all fits together as a puzzle. I think that is a keystone to OS X - all the computer science is under the hood, but then there is a level where it 'just works'. Knowing a bit of why and how it is accomplished gives you more appreciation of it all. It also allows you to improvise and be more creative, because you can put the bits and pieces together the way you want and need, instead of just using the system the way someone imagined the 'average person' might want to use it.

Sounds like you're getting 'hooked' on the magic that is *nix. Welcome to the club!

[Keiretsu]

Originally posted by bkb:
Hi,
I'm trying to log in by typing >console in the log in screen, but unfortunately, it doens't work. It asks me for a username/password. when i type them in, it says, "login failed" and it takes me back to the login in screen. If i type in >console again, my computer just locks up.

Any ideas what's going on?

Your login problem may be keybord related. OS X does not honor the language/keyboard settings when at the console prompt. Therefore if you have something else than an standard US keyboard most probably your special characters are somewhere else. I have to type my password blind at the prompt imagining the US layout.

For once (if nobody looks over your shoulder) type the password at the username prompt in order to see whether it is really what it needs to be!

[bkb]

Originally posted by Keiretsu:
Your login problem may be keybord related. OS X does not honor the language/keyboard settings when at the console prompt. Therefore if you have something else than an standard US keyboard most probably your special characters are somewhere else. I have to type my password blind at the prompt imagining the US layout.

For once (if nobody looks over your shoulder) type the password at the username prompt in order to see whether it is really what it needs to be!

Keiretsu,
My problem has been solved, and is slighly different to the one you outline. In the GUI I was used to logging in with my shortname & password. When i tried this is UNIX, it didn't work. The reason is that the username you have to input in >console is case sensitive, whereas the username I was entering in the GUI doesn't have to be case sensitive. When I checked my shortname in System Preferences --> Accounts, it was in caps.

Thanks for your input though.

JNI - I agree, I am getting hooked. Thanks for your welcome. Look forward to the adventure (& the frustration).

All the best for now,
BKB.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by bkb:
Hello again,
Another strange thing happens, not sure if this is a known bug. After I read your message I logged out of my account and typed >console at the GUI login window. Again - blue screen and computer sort of locked up, although my mouse was working. I had to hold down the power button for five seconds (cold reboot?)

...

Thanks,
BKB.

Off topic, that is a warm boot. A cold boot is boot up from power-off (presumably some time after power down). That is why it is called cold-boot - the chips are supposedly cold whereas with a reboot the chips are still warm.

[bkb]

Originally posted by absmiths:
Off topic, that is a warm boot. A cold boot is boot up from power-off (presumably some time after power down). That is why it is called cold-boot - the chips are supposedly cold whereas with a reboot the chips are still warm.

Interesting - thanks for that.

On the topic this time, I repaired permissions, forced maintenance and now I go back and forth from the GUI to the console as many times as I want, and the computer doesn't lock up any more. Also, if i get the username/password wrong at the first attempt, I can now re-enter the console without it locking up on me. Works like a beauty.

Running X-Windows from the console howerver, makes it go to the bluescreen and locks it up. This is probably normal, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
BKB.

[sbjordal]

Originally posted by bkb:
Hi,
I'm trying to log in by typing >console in the log in screen, but unfortunately, it doens't work. It asks me for a username/password. when i type them in, it says, "login failed" and it takes me back to the login in screen. If i type in >console again, my computer just locks up.

Any ideas what's going on?

Do you have fast user switching turned on? I am not able to do ">console" with fast user switching turned on. No problems when it;s turned off however.

[bkb]

Originally posted by sbjordal:
Do you have fast user switching turned on? I am not able to do ">console" with fast user switching turned on. No problems when it;s turned off however.

Nope, I've never had it turned on. You can read my last post if you want to know how it was solved.

Thanks.