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Maflynn · Mar 30, 2004, 10:21 AM

I want to start using X11 but I'm unsure where to begin and what I need. when I installed panther I included x11. I just downladed Fink and Fink Comander. Is there any other application I need to get this ball rolling.

Any websites or books that will guide me in configuring/using this stuff.

Thanks
Mike

utidjian · Mar 30, 2004, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Maflynn:
I want to start using X11 but I'm unsure where to begin and what I need. when I installed panther I included x11. I just downladed Fink and Fink Comander. Is there any other application I need to get this ball rolling.

Any websites or books that will guide me in configuring/using this stuff.

Mike,

If you installed the X11 that came with Panther then you already have it. That is to say it should run just fine... the configuration is already done.

Go to: Macintosh HD --> Applications --> Utilities

There should be an "X11" icon in there. Double click on it. It will start the X11 server "rootless" and should also start an xterm terminal window. You now have X11 running and one of the apps.

To start a useless but cute X11 toy type "xeyes" (without the quotes) in the xterm window. Press return. The "eyes" will follow your mouse pointer movements.

Have fun.

Maflynn · Mar 30, 2004, 05:50 PM

Cool, so I don't need to download/install any other app.

thanks
Mike

utidjian · Mar 31, 2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Maflynn:
Cool, so I don't need to download/install any other app.

Well that depends... X11 is like Quartz. The default setup for the Apple supplied X11 is to run "rootless". X11 is a server. It serves up X11 applications. xterm is an X11 app as is xeyes. There are zillions of other apps that use the X11 server in order to be displayed on your screen. If you want to use other X11 based apps beyond what you have already you will have to download and install them.

When you download and install new X11 based applications they will go in either /usr/X11R6/bin/ or /sw/bin/ depending on whether you use a package or whether you install via fink, respectively. All fink installed apps go in /sw/bin/.

Maflynn · Mar 31, 2004, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by utidjian:
Well that depends... X11 is like Quartz.
When you download and install new X11 based applications they will go in either /usr/X11R6/bin/ or /sw/bin/ depending on whether you use a package or whether you install via fink, respectively. All fink installed apps go in /sw/bin/.

I understand that I thought I needed to download and install other servers so I can run a Xwindows program. I was unaware that this was a complete solution, I thought I needed FINK or Xfree86 or whatever else.

Mike

utidjian · Mar 31, 2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Maflynn:
I understand that I thought I needed to download and install other servers so I can run a Xwindows program. I was unaware that this was a complete solution, I thought I needed FINK or Xfree86 or whatever else.

You _may_ need fink for the "...whatever else." The X11 that comes with Panther is just that, X11. It has very few X11 based apps. If you want to run more than an xterm, xeyes, xman, and a couple of others you will need to download the apps. The usual way to install X11 apps for Mac OS X is via fink. It is not the only way, just the usual way. There are some X11 bsaed apps that don't require fink to install and run. These would be things like LyX, OpenOffice.org and so on. But the majority are still available via fink.

Maflynn · Apr 1, 2004, 06:24 AM

Ah thank you that's the sort of information I need to know.

Thanks again
Mike

aribus · Apr 1, 2004, 08:05 PM

Good info in this thread. I've been interesting in playing with the various window managers out there such as Gnome and KDE. I'm still doing some research in order to find a nice, self explanatory walkthrough though. Any helpful links would be appreciated! Thanks guys.

drmbb2 · Apr 4, 2004, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by aribus:
Good info in this thread. I've been interesting in playing with the various window managers out there such as Gnome and KDE. I'm still doing some research in order to find a nice, self explanatory walkthrough though. Any helpful links would be appreciated! Thanks guys.

Keep in mind, that Gnome and KDE are NOT window managers - they are desktpp environments. They in turn can, and do, use window mangers, such as BlackBox, FluxBox, WindowMaker, and many, many others. I only say this as many Linux users, and now OS X users, install either Gnome or KDE thinking they are window managers, and end up with a ton of extraneous stuff they didn't want (and which can be dog slow on some systems).

suthercd · Apr 4, 2004, 03:15 PM

Here are some links:
Unoffical FAQ
Sao's page

List of Window Managers
Freshmeat Window Managers

AS you experiment with different configs by altering the ~/.xinitrc file, you will want to change the quartz-wm line to quartz-wm --only-proxy. This keeps the Apple X11 cut and paste capabilities only and allows you to launch other wondow managers. Save the original .xinitrc to .xinitrc.old or some name you like. I have several .xinitrc files with suffixes like .kde or .gnm so I can quickly switch. It is easy to write a quick shell script that would allow you to choose at X11 startup which of several configs you want to run.

Try Blackbox, Window Maker, IceWM. Each has it's own site with instructions and descriptions. gkrellm is an interesting window display showing various system and disk activities.

kde and gnome have bundles in fink for an all in one install. Look for bundle-kde and bundle-gnome. You will probably find that with desktop managers like these, you will want your X11 preferences set to Full Screen mode. Cmd-opt-A toggles X11 and Aqua. Remember Aqua is among other things a desktop manager.

Subscribe to the fink-beginners list. Great help and many of us have the same questions, so you may find what has you puzzled already answered in the archives or being asked currently by someone else.

Sao's place is great. He contributes to XWindow discussions in macosxhints.com

HTH
Craig

utidjian · Apr 4, 2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by drmbb2:
Keep in mind, that Gnome and KDE are NOT window managers - they are desktpp environments. They in turn can, and do, use window mangers, such as BlackBox, FluxBox, WindowMaker, and many, many others. I only say this as many Linux users, and now OS X users, install either Gnome or KDE thinking they are window managers, and end up with a ton of extraneous stuff they didn't want (and which can be dog slow on some systems).

KDE does have a window manager called "kwin". It can run without kwin and use a different wm. You are correct in that Gnome does not include a wm.

suthercd · Apr 5, 2004, 10:19 AM

For a KDE .xinitrc setup, the following lines in the file have worked well with the latest KDE release and 10.3.

Code:
export KDEWM=/sw/bin/kwin
quartz-wm --only proxy
exec /sw/bin/startkde

This sets up the path for the KDE window Manager and configures the quartz window manager as discussed above.

HTH
Craig