[William Shaw]

Hi folks. I'm wondering if anyone has any information about the following error message during Panther (10.3.2) startup:

(... various normal starup messages ...)
Apr 1 08:09:01 mach_init[2]: Started with uid=0
Carbon Lazy Values Total size: 11057 bytes!

...and then the machine (15" iMac G4/800, 256MB/60GB/SuperDrive) hangs.

I've found only one other MacNN forums post containing info about this message, and the poster simply noted that a drive format/reinstall of Panther was necessary. There are a few Google pages containing similar info, but I can't seem to find anything that explains what the error message means or suggests a non-destructive fix for it.

Thanks for any info/help on this one.
Will

[CharlesS]

Well, when working on BootCD for Panther, I've run into that when trying to use hdid early on in the startup process. A bunch of other command-line utilities do it as well - I think the cause is when apps try to use DiskArbitration before it's started up. Basically, I was able to get around the problem by starting the Mach bootstrap server and allowing it to start up DiskArbitration before using anything that needed it.

My money would be on your needing to do a clean reinstall (which does not necessitate reformatting the drive). However, maybe if you post a little more of the startup logs than just that line, it would give some clues.

[William Shaw]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
My money would be on your needing to do a clean reinstall (which does not necessitate reformatting the drive). However, maybe if you post a little more of the startup logs than just that line, it would give some clues.

Here is the complete startup log, up to the point of the error:

standard timeslicing quantum is 10000 us
vm_page_bootstrap: 61871 free pages
mig_table_max_displ = 68
IOKit Component Version 7.2:
Thu Dec 11 16:15:20 PST 2003; root(rcbuilder):RELEASE_PPC/iokit/RELEASE
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
using 655 buffer headers and 655 cluster IO buffer headers
Local FireWire GUID = 0x393ff:0xfea284d0
Security auditing service present
BSM auditing present
From path: "/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/ata-4@1f000/disk@0:5,\mach_kernel", waiting on <dict ID="0"><key>IOPathMatch</key><string ID="1">IODeviceTree:/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/ata-4@1f000/@0:5</string></dict>
Got boot device = IOService:/MacRISC2PE/pci@f2000000/AppleMacRiscPCI/mac-io@17/AppleKeyLargo/ata-4@1f000/KeyLargoATA/ATADeviceNub@0/IOATABlockStorageDriver/IOATABlockStorageDevice/IOBlockStorageDriver/ST360020A Media/IOApplePartitionScheme/MacOS@5
BSD root: disk0s5, major 14, minor 5
Apr 1 11:30:23 mach_init[2]: Started with uid=0
Carbon Lazy Values Total size: 11057 bytes!

Hope I transcribed everything right.

I've done a couple reinstalls using the option that puts the old System folder in /Previous Systems. In the spirit of trying anything, I've also reset PRAM a number of times/done nvram resets from within Open Firmware.

I hope this sheds some further light on the problem. Thanks for your initial diagnosis.

--Will

[CharlesS]

So a clean reinstall didn't fix it?!

Do you have access to any other, working Macs? Perhaps we could use FireWire Target Mode to boot from the hard drive on the other Mac. If the same thing happens, maybe it's a hardware problem...

[William Shaw]

Hm, good suggestion. I tried booting the iMac hard drive as a FW disk attached to my PowerBook G4/400. Same error.

I should note that the machine (the iMac) boots into OS 9 without problems. At this point, things have gotten so screwy that I'm going ahead with a complete format/reinstall of Panther. I'm now copying the contents of the iMac HD (in firewire disk mode) to a LaCie external disk...we'll see what happens after a little more PRAM-zapping and a clean start.

Thanks again,
--Will

[CharlesS]

Good luck. However, I fear that if you get the same problem with a completely different hard drive, that the problem might be something deeper than your hard drive, and I'm not sure that reformatting it will help. If it does, though, then great. Otherwise, I think I'd try things like swapping RAM out, and if that doesn't turn up anything, take it in to an authorized service provider to see if they can find any hardware problems.

[BurpetheadX]

Originally posted by William Shaw:
(... various normal starup messages ...)
Apr 1 08:09:01 mach_init[2]: Started with uid=0
Carbon Lazy Values Total size: 11057 bytes!

This is normal under 10.3. Normally it does not mean anythings wrong. This also happens when trying to use diskutil in single user mode. This is an Apple issue, and does not effect anything.

Kristofer Widholm
The command line utility 'diskutil' is broken in Single User Mode (Darwin). Regardless of the parameters passed, whether you issue the command 'diskutil enableJournal /' or 'diskutil repairPermissions /' or just 'disktutil', the system will spit out the following message "Carbon Lazy Values Total size: 11057 bytes" and then appear to hang. An interrupt (CTRL-C) drops you out of the hang. This bug has rendered the litte Single User Mode troubleshooting utility AppleJack (v 1.2) inoperable under Panther.


Source 1
Source 2

I have experianced this myself as well, but not to the point of hanging the system at startup.

It seems diskutil is trying to do something at startup. Is Journaling on? It might be trying to do a drive repair upon boot. Having Journaling on will hopefully let it bypass the drive repair or whatever its doing.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by BurpetheadX:
This is normal under 10.3. Normally it does not mean anythings wrong. This also happens when trying to use diskutil in single user mode. This is an Apple issue, and does not effect anything.

This is not normal under 10.3. During startup, you are not supposed to get "Carbon Lazy Values" and then a hang.

Kristofer Widholm
The command line utility 'diskutil' is broken in Single User Mode (Darwin). Regardless of the parameters passed, whether you issue the command 'diskutil enableJournal /' or 'diskutil repairPermissions /' or just 'disktutil', the system will spit out the following message "Carbon Lazy Values Total size: 11057 bytes" and then appear to hang. An interrupt (CTRL-C) drops you out of the hang. This bug has rendered the litte Single User Mode troubleshooting utility AppleJack (v 1.2) inoperable under Panther.


Source 1
Source 2

I have experianced this myself as well, but not to the point of hanging the system at startup.

It seems diskutil is trying to do something at startup. Is Journaling on? It might be trying to do a drive repair upon boot. Having Journaling on will hopefully let it bypass the drive repair or whatever its doing.

As I said before, diskutil relies on some stuff that's not there until you start the Mach bootstrap server. If you start it like this:

/usr/libexec/register_mach_bootstrap_servers /etc/mach_init.d

you should then be able to use diskutil. However, this is irrelevant to the problem at hand, since he's getting hangs on startup, not just problems with diskutil.