[yticolev]

Airport network at my sister's house. We both connected to the network with separate laptops. Entourage will not start on second computer. Dialog:

"An Office program is being used by <me>. Your installation exceeds the number of installations permitted by the license agreement. Click More Information to learn about Microsoft Office licensing."

More Information takes me to http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product...infraction.xml which reads:

"Why did I get this alert?
The alert is generated when Network Product ID checking detects another computer on your network running a copy of Office that has the same Product ID as your copy of Office. In general, running duplicate copies of Office on more than one computer is not permitted by the Office_v._X end-user license agreement."

Both laptops were installed from the same disk and they show being registered to <me>. And not that it is the point here but I own the education Office disk and it specifically allows three installations. The part that worries me is that Microsoft must have access to this information as well. If both installations are sending out network signals to talk to each other, then Microsoft must be seeing these messages on the Internet as well (assuming no firewall). This seems a huge violation of privacy. I did not authorize Entourage to be sending secret messages and to be making decisions for me.

I tried a dialup and Airport connection simultaneously without this dialog. So maybe it is local network only. I also notice that the Web page has this: "Last Updated: July 15, 2003". I purchased in October 2003, not even sure that it was available in an edu version in July.

Anyone have thoughts?

[SMacTech]

Office on OS X will check the local sub-net to see if the same serial number is in use. There is no spying by M$. I am pretty sure it is broadcast using AFP, and you can turn off AppleTalk and run them on both Macs.

[Terri]

Use Mail.app, IMO it is a much better e-mail program anyway.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Terri:
Use Mail.app, IMO it is a much better e-mail program anyway.

Possibly they need Exchange capabilities?

[Busemann]

Originally posted by Terri:
Use Mail.app, IMO it is a much better e-mail program anyway.

Why do you say that? Entourage is far more powerful. I'm switching back when 2004 arrives at least..

[yticolev]

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Office on OS X will check the local sub-net to see if the same serial number is in use. There is no spying by M$. I am pretty sure it is broadcast using AFP, and you can turn off AppleTalk and run them on both Macs.

Appletalk is turned off on both computers. What limits this check to the local sub-net?

As it happens, I am planning on migrating to Mail.app. Because I don't particularly like Entourage. Because security wise it is better. Particularly with this recent discovery that I haven't seen documented before.

And it is not just Entourage affected. Any Office app!

[juanvaldes]

google around to find what port it uses and block that with the firewall.

[Busemann]

Originally posted by yticolev:
Particularly with this recent discovery that I haven't seen documented before.

And it is not just Entourage affected. Any Office app!

Its not just Office, Adobe and just about every other major software developer has done this for ages.

[Macola]

Originally posted by yticolev:
Appletalk is turned off on both computers. What limits this check to the local sub-net?

As it happens, I am planning on migrating to Mail.app. Because I don't particularly like Entourage. Because security wise it is better. Particularly with this recent discovery that I haven't seen documented before.

And it is not just Entourage affected. Any Office app!

Office apps have been doing this since 2001. They use port 2222 on the local subnet. See this article:
http://www.ciac.org/ciac/techbull/CIACTech02-003.shtml

Are you sure that you have a multiple license version? The standard (not edu) version of Office v.X allows installation on a desktop and a laptop, but not two laptops.

[yticolev]

Great website! Looks like this is a definite security problem to be plugged. Thanks!

My edu box clearly said three installations. Did not read the license when I installed it.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Using MS products *can* be habit-forming.

*Breaking* the habit... truly liberating!

[KP*]

Originally posted by Macola:
The standard (not edu) version of Office v.X allows installation on a desktop and a laptop, but not two laptops.

Don't know if this is considered "Office" but I can't run VPC on my desktop and laptop simultaneously if both are connected to the network. I bought it in the same box as part of Office, so I would think it should count .

[Ω]

Does anybody know if LittleSnitch would take care of this problem??

[ebsidohw]

"An Office program is being used by <me>. Your installation exceeds the number of installations permitted by the license agreement. Click More Information to learn about Microsoft Office licensing."

More Information takes me to http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product...infraction.xml which reads:

"Why did I get this alert?

all it means is u have a single license for office, but are using it on multiple computers on your lan. it will do it for any office app. its not spying, its an attempt to circumvent pirating. And like someone else suggested, all u have to do is block the port that it broadcasts on and it'll stop the message.

If apple did this with one of their products, no one would raise a fuss, everyone would say that apple engineers work hard, and apple deserves the cost we pay for their products. what's so bad about microsoft doing the same with one of their best products?

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by ebsidohw:
all it means is u have a single license for office, but are using it on multiple computers on your lan. it will do it for any office app. its not spying, its an attempt to circumvent pirating. And like someone else suggested, all u have to do is block the port that it broadcasts on and it'll stop the message.

If apple did this with one of their products, no one would raise a fuss, everyone would say that apple engineers work hard, and apple deserves the cost we pay for their products. what's so bad about microsoft doing the same with one of their best products?

I just fear it is the tip of a bigger iceberg. A Windows XP product activation iceberg...

[Agent69]

From the MS page that you linked to:

Doesn't the license agreement allow me to install Office on a laptop as well as a desktop computer?

The license agreement for Office v. X allows you to install your licensed copy of Office on a single computer, such as a desktop computer or workstation, and allows you, as the primary user of such computer, to install a second copy on your portable computer, such as a laptop, for your own personal use. The license agreement does not allow you to share your copy of Office with another person

The copy of OfficeXP that I bought for my wife has the same limitations, which means that MS is consistant about this. I sincerely doubt that the licensing agreement said three.

You are also breaking the license by installing it on multiple laptops, as the license only allows for the dual installation of Office on a desktop and laptop, of which you need to be the owner of both.

[typoon]

Originally posted by _?_:
Does anybody know if LittleSnitch would take care of this problem??

It might. I know it reports the moment something tries to access the net at anytime then you can block it.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by yticolev:
Airport network at my sister's house. We both connected to the network with separate laptops. Entourage will not start on second computer. Dialog:

"An Office program is being used by <me>. Your installation exceeds the number of installations permitted by the license agreement. Click More Information to learn about Microsoft Office licensing."

More Information takes me to http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product...infraction.xml which reads:

"Why did I get this alert?
The alert is generated when Network Product ID checking detects another computer on your network running a copy of Office that has the same Product ID as your copy of Office. In general, running duplicate copies of Office on more than one computer is not permitted by the Office_v._X end-user license agreement."

Both laptops were installed from the same disk and they show being registered to <me>. And not that it is the point here but I own the education Office disk and it specifically allows three installations. The part that worries me is that Microsoft must have access to this information as well. If both installations are sending out network signals to talk to each other, then Microsoft must be seeing these messages on the Internet as well (assuming no firewall). This seems a huge violation of privacy. I did not authorize Entourage to be sending secret messages and to be making decisions for me.

I tried a dialup and Airport connection simultaneously without this dialog. So maybe it is local network only. I also notice that the Web page has this: "Last Updated: July 15, 2003". I purchased in October 2003, not even sure that it was available in an edu version in July.

Anyone have thoughts?

This isn't anything new

But I believe this may have been changed with the Office 10.1.2 update... the latest version is 10.1.5 have you tried it? I think they may have stopped checking this.

[-Q-]

And a quick search reveals:

The terminal command to turn off the network check.

The possibility that the network check is removed as of SP 1.

Search is your friend.

[yticolev]

Originally posted by Agent69:
From the MS page that you linked to:

The copy of OfficeXP that I bought for my wife has the same limitations, which means that MS is consistant about this. I sincerely doubt that the licensing agreement said three.

You are also breaking the license by installing it on multiple laptops, as the license only allows for the dual installation of Office on a desktop and laptop, of which you need to be the owner of both.

From Apple's edu page (you may have to navigate to get here):

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-500...5.10.3.24.13.0

"Office 2004 for Mac Student and Teacher Edition gives you the leading presentation, spreadsheet, word processing and e-mail software from Microsoft in one convenient, specially priced package.
Full versions of the leading productivity applications from Microsoft.
Rights to install on three computers in your household."

Just for those of you who think I am pirating.

Absolutely I think that software companies have the right to avoid piracy. And Microsoft and commercial software companies are notorious for difficult keys that must be installed to run. What I object to is invasion of privacy and, as I have now been made aware, opening of ports without permission or knowledge that may allow hacking into my computer.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by Agent69:
You are also breaking the license by installing it on multiple laptops, as the license only allows for the dual installation of Office on a desktop and laptop, of which you need to be the owner of both.

As stated, the student/teacher edition allows for installation on up to three computers in a home. I think you need to return your 'Microsoft Licensing Expert' certificate.

[jasonbw]

i believe you get to install office 3 times, but you only get to run one instance of it at a time.

[brapper]

I heard it was not only legal to pirate Office, but that Microsoft encourages it.
So, just go get yourself some extra serials from your favourite source and make Microsoft happy.

[Bobby]

This is pretty standard routine, and was occuring way back in the System 7 days of Mac OS (I'm sure it started much earlier than this)...

M$ is not the only company to do this either, it's a common practice for software such as this...

[bbales]

Just read something about this in MacWorld. It's from the early days of Office X. Installing the update will eliminate the nagging.

[Vader’s Pinch of Death]

Ya I also heard the later updates kills that problem.

[poocat]

Little Snitch (www.obdev.com) stops both this and adobe and... yadda yadda yadda.

Years ago, running office at college, this message was the worst thing... you'd get it everywhere!

pc.

[todrain]

Originally posted by jasonbw:
i believe you get to install office 3 times, but you only get to run one instance of it at a time.

This is correct! Since the licence is for one person, they feel that you should not need to run it on more than one machine at the same time. (I believe that is the verbage in the EUA)

[TimmyDee51]

I agree. This whole thing kind of pissed me off, so I just did the simple terminal command (sudo ipfw add deny from any to any 2222) and that killed it. The one linked article had you adding rules for TCP ranges, etc., but UDP is all that's needed. It turns out that these are my computers I'm using and my Office I'm using. I'll be damned if I'll let a company tell me how to use my own stuff.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by ebsidohw:
If apple did this with one of their products, no one would raise a fuss, everyone would say that apple engineers work hard, and apple deserves the cost we pay for their products. what's so bad about microsoft doing the same with one of their best products?

That isn't true. I don't like piracy, but I hate anti-piracy schemes even more. History has shown that techniques such as these do NOT stop (or even deter) piracy - just witness the many simple ways to circumvent it - but they DO quite often and daily annoy legitimate users. Even MS's new Activation scheme is fairly easy to bypass and yet normal users are constantly annnoyed with it.

I appreciate Apple's current model of trusting the end user to do the right thing. I think a legitimate user (the ones who actually pay for stuff) is more likely to pay for software when their conscience is their guide rather than feeling like they are being bullied.

[TimmyDee51]

Agreed. Apple doesn't make me jump through long a$$ serial numbers, product activation, nor do they have their software call home. As a result, I wouldn't even considered pirating any Apple software. They fairly price their stuff for students and make things extremely accessible. Kudos.

[Agent69]

I find it amazing that Microsoft allows for more installations on the student edition than they do for the regular version. I see where the Apple store page (which yticolev did not quote on his original post) it says three computers but can anyone confirm this on an actual copy of the software?

[Link]

Originally posted by Macola:
Are you sure that you have a multiple license version? The standard (not edu) version of Office v.X allows installation on a desktop and a laptop, but not two laptops.

The program has no way to differentiate. The office EDU version allows 3 simultaneous uses and the standard one only ONE. The PC version used to allow 2

MS is definately not the only company, but that doesn't make it right. I hate (with my guts), buying from companies that CANNOT TRUST THEIR OWN FREAKING CUSTOMERS

I don't mind a serial number.. that's fine. Having a program that CHECKS that you're legit, an installer that makes sure you're not lying to the company.. etc.. is totally wrong. It's like walking into a store, buying stuff, and then the sales people patting you down and checking you + your clothing to make sure you didn't steal anything from them.

[Cipher13]

I just use my firewall to disallow all MS apps from making any network contact whatsoever. I also have the edu version, and the same **** applies.

I figure, if I've paid for a 3-license (or whatever) version, and they won't even let me do THAT without incurring additional expense, that justifies me installing it on as many damn systems here as I want.

[msuper69]

Originally posted by Link:

...
It's like walking into a store, buying stuff, and then the sales people patting you down and checking you + your clothing to make sure you didn't steal anything from them.

Most stores that use those electronic anti-theft tags already do that only it's done by scanning you as you walk out. Test it by sticking a CD in your pants and try to get out of the store w/o the alarm going off. The electronic equivalent of patting you down.

[Love Calm Quiet]

If the software agreement reads:
"Office 2004 for Mac Student and Teacher Edition gives you the leading presentation, spreadsheet, word processing and e-mail software from Microsoft in one convenient, specially priced package.
Full versions of the leading productivity applications from Microsoft.
Rights to install on three computers in your household."

It is easy to read quickly over "rights to INSTALL on three computers" and think that means "we will not block you from using is simultaneously on more than one" -- which obviously MS attempts to do.

I don't know how they ADVERTIZE/PROMOTE the product or describe it on the box, but it does seem that fair advertising would require them to state clearly if ONLY ONE copy is allowed to be running on your network at once.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Busemann:
Why do you say that? Entourage is far more powerful. I'm switching back when 2004 arrives at least..

I'm not knocking Mail.app or Entourage, but I think they both serve a purpose.

I use Mail.app because:
1) I like using standards (Mail.app uses the OPEN STANDARD of mbox)
2) It does everything I need it to do
3) It's free
4) It's integrated in to the OS very well

Entourage has some capabilities that Mail.app is still having issues with IMAP and Exchange services etc.

[Macola]

Originally posted by Link:
The program has no way to differentiate. The office EDU version allows 3 simultaneous uses and the standard one only ONE. The PC version used to allow 2

That's what I thought, too, but apparently it does. I've had this happen with two of my clients now. They wanted to install copies of the standard version of Office v.X on 2 PowerBooks--no go. With the same copy, when it was installed on a PowerBook and a desktop Mac (iMac or a G4), both copies ran fine simultaneously.

Here's a quote from the EULA:
You may install and use one copy of the Software Product on a single computer, device, workstation, terminal, or other digital electronic or analog device ("Device"). You may make a second copy of the Software Product and install it on a portable Device for the exclusive use of the person who is the primary user of the first copy of the Software Product.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Macola:
That's what I thought, too, but apparently it does. I've had this happen with two of my clients now. They wanted to install copies of the standard version of Office v.X on 2 PowerBooks--no go. With the same copy, when it was installed on a PowerBook and a desktop Mac (iMac or a G4), both copies ran fine simultaneously.

Here's a quote from the EULA:
You may install and use one copy of the Software Product on a single computer, device, workstation, terminal, or other digital electronic or analog device ("Device"). You may make a second copy of the Software Product and install it on a portable Device for the exclusive use of the person who is the primary user of the first copy of the Software Product.

While the marketing aspect does stink, we need to remember that this is better then the old way. The old way made you a criminal if you had a laptop and a desktop and only purchased one copy. At least now they accept that one copy per person, not per system (up to a limit of three [technically Office/Home/Work] if all owed by the main user)

I agree that it's misleading.

[vcutag]

Originally posted by Agent69:
I find it amazing that Microsoft allows for more installations on the student edition than they do for the regular version. I see where the Apple store page (which yticolev did not quote on his original post) it says three computers but can anyone confirm this on an actual copy of the software?

Yeah, that's the version my fiance and I have at home, running on a Powerbook and an iBook. We can both run copies at the same time. The package comes with three different serial numbers.

[Link]

Originally posted by msuper69:
Most stores that use those electronic anti-theft tags already do that only it's done by scanning you as you walk out. Test it by sticking a CD in your pants and try to get out of the store w/o the alarm going off. The electronic equivalent of patting you down.

That's a bit different. If you're honest the tags are 'broken' when you purchase your stuff. They don't "phone home" from your bathroom to make sure of this as well.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by _?_:
Does anybody know if LittleSnitch would take care of this problem??

YES, it will if you set it up right.

-t

[discotronic]

Here is a link with a script that will help by-pass the network check.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...20406142423494

[typoon]

Originally posted by jasonbw:
i believe you get to install office 3 times, but you only get to run one instance of it at a time.

Not for the student teacher edition. It provides 3 different serial numbers.

[typoon]

This Problem is why I kept posting for people to buy the Student/teacher Edition. They don't ask for ID plus it allows for 3 legal installs. You don't need to buy this version with the EDU discount so they won't ask you for ID. Not only that it will save you some money so you can buy another app with the money you save.