[kevs]

That's the thing. You could buy a really low end stereo and it could test out fine -- and stay that way for a long time. But what headaches will it bring you later as opposed to buying a high quality one to begin with? I'm wondering if there is someone out there who has really been through the trenches with both Apple Ram (which Apple --of course)-- says is much bette quality, or tested) and 3rd party Ram.

And again, now I have 1GB of Ram and everything works great. For G5 will that be different. How much Ram will you all order when you get your G5?

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by kevs:
How much Ram will you all order when you get your G5?

2GB. I'm running 1GB right now and it's sweet, but I still have pageouts after a while of usage. 4GB would be great but total overkill. (for me)

[kevs]

purple:
How was one GB for you when you were on G4?

Your opinion on 3rd party ram?

[aehaas]

Being in electronics I pay attention to things as power and heat. Apple RAM has consistently required less power to run. This is important in both use and in sleep in a power book setting. Apple RAM traditionally has less problems. I am in business and cannot afford the hassle of bad RAM.

Talking about stereo equipment - I will pick on Radio Shack. Their specs are very good but check them a year later and they are very bad in my experience. High end equipment has specs that at first appear poor but hold up over time and the equipment sounds better from the start. There are reasons for this.

Just because it has a lifetime warrantee does not mean it is better. I bought some tools once in high school that immediately broke. I could send them back for a free replacement but instead I bought a replacement that did not break, a SnapOn tool. I still have the same tools 20 years later.

aehaas

ps "You cannot ever have enough memory" is a saying from the beginning of computers. It is still true. There is no such thing as too much memory.

pps My new G5 has 4 gig of RAM. My oldest desktop dp800 will be replaced next when the 3GHz G5 comes out. I will get 8 gig RAM. It currently has 1.5 gig and is not enough.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by kevs:
purple:
How was one GB for you when you were on G4?

Your opinion on 3rd party ram?

I have 1GB on both my MDD867 and 450 cube, all of it is 3rd party from datamem.com. If I ever had any questions or problems, they replaced it no questions asked. As a sys admin, I have purchased a lot of RAM over the years and working with a known reputable firm is critical. All 10 OS X Macs are running an additional 512mb or more of RAM, and all of them are stable. YMMV with other vendors.

Get ALL the RAM you can afford in your G4.

[RevEvs]

Get Crucial RAM. Good quality, will be fine.
Do not get RAM from Apple, they charge a HUGE premium (as do other pc makers).
I have 2.5Gig in my G5, and id recommend at least 1Gig.

revs

[kevs]

aehaas
You see you are in minority here, but that why I put up thread, so hear all sides. Now, being that Apple ram is so much more, I want to hear whole debate. If it was just a little more it would be no brainer.

Now I think I remember Apple saying they don't make the Ram themselves, but just test it out. So maybe I'm thinking if you could find out exact vendor who makes their Ram.....

[sniffer]

Kingston, or Crucial. Buy quality! Less problems!

.. I had cheap ram failing after over a year of usage, but now that I am on Kingston, my machine has never been as stable as now.

[Spliffdaddy]

There honestly *is* such a thing as too much RAM.

Once you have enough, adding more yields no benefit whatsoever.

It's like having 8 seats in a car with 3 passengers. There isn't much point in having 5 additional seats.

[ginoledesma]

I've had a bunch of experience with different kinds of RAM. Among those I've tried are: Mushkin, Micron/Crucial, Samsung, Hyundai, Kingston, Kingmax, Apacer, and other "no-brands." In Asia, several of these "Taiwan-made" RAM can be had dirt cheap, and I've used many of them in PCs.

I've noticed that certain Macs, in particular PowerBooks and iBooks, are very picky about RAM. If you'll notice, Crucial and Kingston both have different model numbers for memory that's being sold for Macs. For example, Kingston sells a 512MB DIMM for Apple PowerBook G4s with a part number of KTA-PBG4266/512. But they also sell the regular ValueRAMs under a different part number of KVR266X64SC25/512. Unfortunately, the datasheet for the KTA-PBG4266/512 isn't posted, so I can't make a technical comparison between the two.

Apple requires RAM that conforms to the JEDEC standard. Apple details the specifications of the RAM expansion slots (e.g. PowerBook G4 RAM Expansion Slot). If you recall a while back, Apple released some firmware that disabled certain, non-conforming 3rd party RAM. People downloaded DIMM First Aid to check whether their RAM was compatible or not.

I learned from experience when I got burned for using no-brand RAM. I left TechTool Pro 3 running before to test 2 sticks (as I always do with new RAM) to perform intensive RAM tests. One day later, I had to return both DIMMs for having developed "burnt marks" on some of the chips. This could have been a case of "bad luck," but I don't have time for "bad luck," not when I have systems that need to be running 24/7 for a long time. From that day onwards, I never settled for anything less than Kingston or Crucial. Both companies, among others, pride themselves in testing each and every memory chip that gets soldered onto the memory module.

I barely recall Viking's memory advertisement before in the pages of Macworld and MacUser. It was something in the lines of, "if your Mac crashes because of bad memory, who cares what's on your Mac?"

[Don Pickett]

There is no such thing as too much RAM. I have a gig in my Pismo, and I use it all. Buy as much as you can.

My first Mac came with a meg of RAM, which was enough to run the system, Word and a few other things and still have ~250K left over. I soon bumped it to the max (8 megs - woohoo!) which was an enormous amount in 1989. However, I was soon using all of that. As the years progressed and I kept using the computer and after a while 8 megs wasn't that much. When I got this machine it came with 256 megs, which wasn't an enormous amount, but more than enough to run 9.0.4. When I installed X, I immediately got more RAM, as 512 megs is the minimum I would recommend anyone run with X.

Point is, no matter how much RAM you have, and no matter how much you think is enough, as time marches on and you presumably keep using your machine, it will end up not being that much memory. So, grab all you can.

[ginoledesma]

The notion of diminishing returns indeed applies, but I consider the extra capacity as a benefit. Sure, I don't often consume all of the 1GB, but I'd rather have all that extra room rather than not.

Mac OS X loves RAM. It eats as much as it can. It doesn't expunge the contents of pages immediately in anticipation of it being reused (which explains why certain apps start much faster the second time around). 1GB was generous for me, 1.5GB was what I considered gluttony. But 8GB? I don't think I could justify it with the work I do on my Mac.

[-Q-]

Third party RAM is great so long as you go with a quality vendor. As mentioned, Kingston and Crucial are two of the top names so I don't think you'll go wrong in using their products. I added 1 GB of RAM to my G5 from Crucial and it really helps in rendering the big video files and all the multi-tasking I do. Get as much as you can afford, within reason.

[kevs]

Gino
great anylsis:
Ok, so If I get a G5, you would say that Kingston and or Crucial would in the long run be just as good as Apple certified?

Are there different grades with these companies or it's just one type.

If you had to choose kingston or crucial?

And for new G5, for for photographer... how much Ram. 1, 2, 3 GB???

thanks

[sniffer]

The amount depends on your needs, not which computer you are going for.

What applications and tasks are you planning to do etc?

[RayX]

Something to note, Apple RAM usually uses Micron (Crucial is a division of Micron), or Samsung chips.

[kevs]

Ray, then Crucial is way to go -- unless Samsung makes memory do they?

I'll be doing work with Raw files in Photoshop. So I don't know, 1gb, 2...?

Apple did say yes, you get to a point of sufficient ram and then the rest is just like dust sitting on a shelf. Hence, it's best not to buy a lot more than you need. In the old days, this was easy to achieve, but with 8GB .....

[ginoledesma]

If you subscribe to magazines like Macworld or PC World, you'll occasionally see Micron/Crucial's advertising that says, "The biggest computer manufacturers buy memory from us. Shouldn't you?" My PowerMac G4/400 I bought a few years back had memory that was made by Samsung, but a friend's QuickSilver had one from Crucial. However, the product numbes are different (retail vs OEM, I guess).

Apple doesn't make its own RAM, but I guess its safe to assume that they "ceritfy" their RAM to work with their products. You definitely won't go wrong with Crucial and Kingston (I know I haven't). One place you might want to consider is RAMSeeker, which compares the prices of various RAM products sold specifically for the Mac.

Also, you might want to check out the corresponding PowerMac/iMac/PowerBook/iBook forums here to find out users' actual experience with ordering/installing 3rd party RAM. Like I said, Kingston sells the same "type" of RAM under different product numbers. I recall a thread in the PowerBook forums where someone had to ship back the RAM to Crucial because it didn't work well with the Mac (it turned out that the wrong oen was shipped).

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by kevs:
Ray, then Crucial is way to go -- unless Samsung makes memory do they?

I'll be doing work with Raw files in Photoshop. So I don't know, 1gb, 2...?

Hynix (Hyundai) and Samsung make the memory chips that go on the memory module. They don't sell to end-users like us, but they usually sell to the memory module suppliers (like PQI and Apacer). Crucial, as far as I can remember, is the only one that does the whole thing: making the chips (Micron), assembling them into memory moedules, to selling them to the consumer (Crucial).

[kevs]

Went to ramseeker, very unimpressed. Just seemed to show a handful of vendors who pay to be on site. I imagine when time comes I would just contact Crucial and ask any questions to them.

[The Placid Casual]

I have 1 Gig in my dual 450 G4, and it is fine.

I have the same amount in my Dual 1.8 G5, and in all honesty I could do with little bit more to make sure things are 100% smooth.

I mostly buy from Crucial and have done for years. They have never supplied me a dodgy stick, and their prices are also always pretty good.

[kevs]

Let me get this right. Apple charges about $200 per 512 of memory, while Crucial is about $125 to $130. And other companies go lower to $90 or so.

So pehaps 2GB would do it for you. but 3-8GB? is that for Nasa scientist?

[ginoledesma]

Apple = all about profit. Their mark-up on accessories and peripherals is quite large, especially if its internal add-ons. There are times when the price difference is "negligible," but often times it isn't. The only impact of getting more RAM from Apple when buying a machine as BTO means a slightly longer delay (I a friend who complained his BTO machine, with only additional 512MB RAM, had to wait 2 weeks longer than his officemate who ordered a stock machine -- both at the same time).

[emark]

I hope someone can enlightlen me, I see above posts that seem to imply that some folks believe that the processor is related to the amount of memory you NEED. My understanding was that the operating system would apportion memory as it sees fit, the chip really shouldn't have anything to do with this.

Trust I am aware that the G5 has the ability with the appropriate software to address a larger memory space, and I further understand that it's not truely a 64-bit OS we're working with...that said...why would it make a difference.

The other point I have to question is one made early on that Apple memory consistently uses less power to run...less than what?? Either you buy memory in spec, or it's not. Apple doesn't make RAM, they buy it too as was said before...

Don't spend the extra $$ and get highjacked...concentrate on the guarantee and service record, it you buy memory elsewhere just be able to return it...It is something you will likely know in short order whether or not it is a problem...don't buy w/o a lifetime guarantee, save your receipt...some folks did have memory issues with machines with the transition form 9 to X, so theoretically you could have a problem evolve, but it isn't likely at all.


From experience with transintl.com, I've never had a problem using their memory and I beleive they pull from different vendors. I've also heard nothing but good things about owc service (macsales.com)...so I'd save the $$ over apple ram, and go with the service.

good luck


ahhh....one last thought...I have to side with the group that says there is such a thing as too much memory...especially when you are on a budget.

I read so many stories/posts of people who load up their machines w/ crazy amounts of RAM to surf the web and word process....

Let YOUR needs be your guide. Get what you think might be good with an eye for remaining slots and possible future additions path, then see what your use is, use activity monitor or the other free little apps to track usage and pageouts, don't blow a bunch of cash just to compete with the joneses.... for X nothing less than 512 would do for me, but over a gig would have absolutely miniscule returns...unless I met a chick at a bar who was impressed with big RAM...since that's not going to happen....

[emark]

EDIT: I found the source, it was reported by Rob M. at barefeats.com

memory required for efficient typical operation of your Power Mac or PowerBook? I suggest one gigabyte. Why? Check out the physical memory used (wired + active + inactive) for the following scenarios:

Boot OS X only on G5/2.0MP = 450MB
OS X + Word, Excel, Mail, and Safari = 588MB
OS X + iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, and AppleWorks = 640MB
OS X + Final Cut Pro 4, Compressor, LiveType, SoundTrack and iDVD = 678MB
OS X + Excel + ImageReady + GoLive + Transfer + Safari = 807MB
OS X + Photoshop (500MB cache) + open 83MB doc = 1033MB


I have been running w/ 640...and been happy w/ the speed of my machine, but certain apps fill up the memory until there is like 60 - 100 MB free.... Now this has me thinking of trying some more memory...

[SmileyDude]

Well, first off, I always recommend Crucial to anyone that is buying RAM. I buy it for myself at home, and I always use them when buying at work. Never had a problem. Contrast that to a pair of 512meg PC100 sticks that I got from some no-name vendor. Both used Samsung chips, both refused to work in my iMac. The stuff was out of spec, and I wasn't about to pay the 30% restocking fee for bad RAM. Ended up trading it to a friend with a PC, and buying another 2 sticks from Crucial. Funny part is that the Crucial RAM ended up being $20 bucks more at the time.

Seems kinda short sighted to waste $200 (at the time) in an attempt to save $20. I ended up losing $200 instead...

Anyway, as for RAM usage, I currently have a dual 1.8 G5 at work and I have 2gigs installed. Just glancing over at the RAM stats right now, I have 200M free, although 1G shows up as inactive. I still have 54179 pageouts, so obviously at some point, I was out of free memory.

As far as apps go, I typically have iTunes, iChat AV, Safari, Mail, Terminal, Xcode, Interface Builder, iCal, Yahoo IM, Activity Monitor, AquaMon and a few other apps running all the time. I also have an in-house Java app running at different times of the day. Having the extra RAM isn't necessary, but it does keep things running smoothly

I would love to bring this machine up to 3-4gigs eventually. My feeling is that it's always better to have too much than not enough. And I'm pretty sure that Apple (and others for that matter) will continue to make use of bigger RAM sizes in the future. (just checking right now, it appears that Safari is the biggest user of memory right now -- 155meg real, 594meg virtual )

[cdhostage]

I too would recommend only name-brand RAM. Here's a weird thing - in my Pismo, I tried two different styles of RAM, one Crucial and the other a brand I don't remember. The system actually ran about 3 degrees Fahrenheight cooler using the Crucial RAM.

I returned the no-name RAM for a larger SO-DIMM later.

Part efficiency is a small difference, I suppose. I've never had RAM go and fail outright on me, although I'm going to be building a couple PCs this summer and expect to hit a couple component snags.

One thing that you don't have to (aren't allowed to) worry about in Macs is memory latency. The Mac will complain if your memory isn't up to snuff, but other than that, you can't fiddle iwth the system to get more out of it. Oh well.

Mac OS X loves RAM. IIt's great; I set everything I'm likely to use to open when I log on, get a drink of water, and everything is immediately available. All this because I have a gigabyte of memory, programs that don't take CPU time when idle, and true multitasking to work with. I'll get w gigs in my next Power Mac G5. Well, first, anyway.

[kevs]

thanks e mark, very insightful. Only wonder then about need for 8GB, is that just good PR or maybe someone really needs it.

[ginoledesma]

Originally posted by emark:
ahhh....one last thought...I have to side with the group that says there is such a thing as too much memory...especially when you are on a budget.

I read so many stories/posts of people who load up their machines w/ crazy amounts of RAM to surf the web and word process....

Let YOUR needs be your guide. Get what you think might be good with an eye for remaining slots and possible future additions path, then see what your use is, use activity monitor or the other free little apps to track usage and pageouts, don't blow a bunch of cash just to compete with the joneses.... for X nothing less than 512 would do for me, but over a gig would have absolutely miniscule returns...unless I met a chick at a bar who was impressed with big RAM...since that's not going to happen.... [/B]

I loaded my PowerMac G4/400 (AGP) with 2GB of RAM when SDRAM prices were at an all time low. $65+ for PC133 512MB? Not bad at all. I literally souped up my PowerMac G4/400 to everything it could take -- Radeon 8500 (I had a GeForce3 lying around), 2GB of RAM, 3xHDDs (I once was contemplating on 3x120GB), etc. RAM is one of the best upgrade you can give your machine. Even if its just for surfing, word processing, the occasional iTunes and the like, if its a bargain, why not? I fall guilty of that, though I do have of multitasking a lot (I do a number of programming and systems admin on my Mac)

[reneb]

I've had very good luck with TechWorks I have found that there RAM is A-1 quality, they guarentee compatibility and they have very liberal return policiies. You have 30 days to see if their product is something you want to keep.

Re. OWC. I have purchased chips from RamJet that are the same exact chips (with the same labels and all) as what OtherWorld Computing offers, but OWC does so for less $$.

Overall, I would agree with the recomendations for Crucial, but not Knigston (they seem to have some quality control issues occassionally), and I've also had problems w/Viking chips, though they have excellent service for replacement.[