[pete]

I want to install panther (the DVD version) on my mother's lombard but it doesn't have a dvd drive. Is there a way to copy the dvd to multiple cds or can I install it through another dvd equiped mac that is connected to the Lombard?

Any tips would be greatly appreciate. I'm on my way to Europe (where my mother lives) and want to make sure I bring along whatever I need to do thi.

Thanks thanks thanks!

P

[Person Man]

Originally posted by pete:
I want to install panther (the DVD version) on my mother's lombard but it doesn't have a dvd drive. Is there a way to copy the dvd to multiple cds or can I install it through another dvd equiped mac that is connected to the Lombard?

Any tips would be greatly appreciate. I'm on my way to Europe (where my mother lives) and want to make sure I bring along whatever I need to do thi.

Thanks thanks thanks!

P

Technical answer. You could only do it if the Lombard was put in SCSI disk mode, which requires a special adapter for the Lombard side, and then you'd need some way to adapt the SCSI to a newer computer. And the installer DEFINITELY wouldn't know how to talk to that adapter.

Legal answer: You're violating the license agreement. The DVD versions ship with their respective computers and are only meant to run on that computer, even though you can install the OS on any computer.

EDIT: To remove the wrong information.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by Person Man:
Technical answer. No, you can't install Panther from DVD on a Lombard with no DVD drive. Not even if you connect another computer to it. (The installation process requires you to run the installer on the machine you're installing on). Besides, you could only do it if the Lombard was put in SCSI disk mode, which requires a special adapter for the Lombard side, and then you'd need some way to adapt the SCSI to a newer computer. And the installer DEFINITELY wouldn't know how to talk to that adapter.

Legal answer: You're violating the license agreement. The DVD versions ship with their respective computers and are only meant to run on that computer, even though you can install the OS on any computer.

Technical answer: yes you can. Putting the lombard in SCSI disk mode will make it show up as a SCSI hard drive on whatever machine it is connected to. You don't have to boot from the installer disk to run the installer. You don't have to have the installer running on the machine it is installing onto. All installs of 10.3 are the same. This isn't windows. OS X doesn't reconfigure itself for your machine in the install process. You could even do an install on some other hard drive, use carbon copy cloner to copy it to a bootable disk image, and then carbon copy clone it back to the lombard.

But of course, there is no shipping purchaseable DVD version of panther, so this would likely be against the licensing agreement.

[pete]

Yes, I know it violates the user agreement. Honestly though, I don't feel bad after having supported Apple with tens of thousands of dollars in hardware and software purchases over the the past 12 years. Not to mention the weeks of hassle I've endured in the process of repair and service issues that could have been avoided if Apple's quality control were better. In any case, I continue to purchase machines and software from them on a yearly basis and don't plan on buying multi-user agreements for software installed among my family members.

As for the process....what about making a carbon copy of the cd and then using that to install over a network? There must be some way to do this, no?

Thanks again
P

[Mr. Blur]

Originally posted by pete:
Yes, I know it violates the user agreement.

asking for help in pirating software is against the rules here too.....

[theolein]

Although it is against the rules and against Apple's licence, you wouldn't be the first one to install OSX on two computers (I bought the original Panther and installed it on my TiPB and my old Lombard). How you'll do it though, is above me, as the DVD install script will only look for stuff on one disk. At the very least you'll have to buy a USB-SCSI adapter and and a SCSI HD-30 (Lombard SCSI plug) to Centronics adapter, all of which together will cost you around $40 to $50. It would probably be far easier just either buying the Panther boxed CD version new or on ebay.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Detrius:
Technical answer: yes you can. Putting the lombard in SCSI disk mode will make it show up as a SCSI hard drive on whatever machine it is connected to. You don't have to boot from the installer disk to run the installer. You don't have to have the installer running on the machine it is installing onto. All installs of 10.3 are the same. This isn't windows. OS X doesn't reconfigure itself for your machine in the install process. You could even do an install on some other hard drive, use carbon copy cloner to copy it to a bootable disk image, and then carbon copy clone it back to the lombard.

Sorry. I was partially thinking of the CD version of Panther where the machine reboots part way through the install process and asks you to insert the other CD to complete the installation. Using the DVD makes that step unnecessary. You still need the Apple SCSI disk mode adapter and a way to hook up a SCSI device to the host computer (the one you're running the installer on).

[Person Man]

Originally posted by theolein:
At the very least you'll have to buy a USB-SCSI adapter and and a SCSI HD-30 (Lombard SCSI plug) to Centronics adapter, all of which together will cost you around $40 to $50. It would probably be far easier just either buying the Panther boxed CD version new or on ebay.

Are you sure the installer will recognize a SCSI disk connected through a USB-SCSI adapter? It might be a lot easier if the host machine had a SCSI card in it that was supported natively by OS X.

[Telusman]

I think legality and moral opinions should be kept to ones self. Some people who've laid down nearly 10 grand on Apple hardware in the last few years feel a bit jipped that Apple makes us pay for an OS every year, no we aren't forced to upgrade but lets face it, a fair few programs that i use now require 10.3 for new versions otherwise they don't work or work correctly.

All of my Macs run off the same copy of 10.3, i'd feel guilty ... well no, i can't say i ever would, I have issues paying for 1's and 0's. (soon to be patented by microsoft i've heard!)

I support Apple as much as i financially can but lets face it, sometimes software pricing can be a tad outrageous, moreso for the Windows side of things, but even some software on the Mac side. Remember the $129 u Americans pay is $199 here in Canada, two copies of Mac OS X = 1 Copy of WindowsXP.

Some people have issues with pirated software but thats their opinion, and thats really all it is, their opinion and if you don't share it you should ignore it. If they reply to posts like this one they should be providing help for fellow Mac users not providing a legal basis for not.

-Telusman

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Telusman:
I think legality and moral opinions should be kept to ones self. Some people who've laid down nearly 10 grand on Apple hardware in the last few years feel a bit jipped that Apple makes us pay for an OS every year, no we aren't forced to upgrade but lets face it, a fair few programs that i use now require 10.3 for new versions otherwise they don't work or work correctly.

All of my Macs run off the same copy of 10.3, i'd feel guilty ... well no, i can't say i ever would, I have issues paying for 1's and 0's. (soon to be patented by microsoft i've heard!)

That's what the "Family Pack" license (for US$199) is for. One copy, up to five computers. (i.e. 2 computers, $99.50 per machine, 3 computers, $66.33, 4 computers, $49.75, and 5 computers, $39.80)

I support Apple as much as i financially can but lets face it, sometimes software pricing can be a tad outrageous, moreso for the Windows side of things, but even some software on the Mac side. Remember the $129 u Americans pay is $199 here in Canada, two copies of Mac OS X = 1 Copy of WindowsXP.

See above re: the Family Pack.

Some people have issues with pirated software but thats their opinion, and thats really all it is, their opinion and if you don't share it you should ignore it. If they reply to posts like this one they should be providing help for fellow Mac users not providing a legal basis for not.

The justification for piracy is opinion. The impact that piracy has on the industry is FACT. And the FACT is, all piracy hurts the industry, no matter how it is justified. The FACT is also that the MacNN Forum guidelines prohibit talking about how to pirate something.

This thread would be excluded because there are still legal reasons to install the operating system from the DVD when there's no DVD drive available (like when the computer it came with now has a broken DVD drive and you need to reinstall).

[Mr. Blur]

Originally posted by Person Man:
That's what the "Family Pack" license (for US$199) is for. One copy, up to five computers. (i.e. 2 computers, $99.50 per machine, 3 computers, $66.33, 4 computers, $49.75, and 5 computers, $39.80)

if you want to go strictly "by the book" this specific case does not quality for the family pack - they do not live in the same household (his mother lives in europe....).

[chris_h]

Oh for christ's sakes...

either (in order of best idea to worst)
a) buy another copy of panther
b) borrow a friend's cd copy.
c) download it and burn it on to cds


don't be a douche and try to get a scsi adapter to the port and hook up the thing but you'll need this cable and it might not work unless you change this script in the dvd installers pkg thing but also remember unless you get the rev4 scsi adapter you'll need to stand on your head during the optimization part, and oh yeah you might also have to...

if you're going to "pirate" don't be gay about it.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
if you want to go strictly "by the book" this specific case does not quality for the family pack - they do not live in the same household (his mother lives in europe....).

Yes. I know, but I was responding to the guy who said that spending tens of thousands of dollars on computer equipment was enough to justify paying for a single license and installing it on more than one machine.

[pete]

Ok, while I understand your points about legality, all I wanted was some advice on a practical detail. I was on my way to Europe and wanted to make sure I had the right stuff with me. I don't have time to track down a copy of panther here and just wanted to upgrade my mother's old Lombard so that it works properly. Since jaguar didn't work very well on it (graphics problems, crashes etc), I was hoping panther would be better. Apple says macos x is compatible with these machines but it really hasn't been for a lot of users. So Apple doesn't keep their end of the the agreement, and I install my copy of macosx on my the computers within the family (yes yes,..I know, my mother is in Europe - but this is a global era, right?). We're even, Apple and I.


Thanks anyway for those who made suggestions without getting into legal and moral arguments.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by pete:
Since jaguar didn't work very well on it (graphics problems, crashes etc), I was hoping panther would be better.

FWIW, Panther runs great on the Lombard (if you can get it on there).

[pete]

Person Man,

I've tried over and over again to install Jaguar on my mother's lombard. It took me a long time to get it on there and once I did it still doesn't work perfectly. Day to day operations are usually ok, but after sleep it flickers when the screen comes back on. Sometimes the LCD doesn't light up at all after waking and I have to restart. Sometimes when I restart it take 2-3 times to get the LCD on. I've tried rebooting in OS 9 and there are no problems then so it's definitely not a straight hardware problem. It seems there is some kind of incompatibility between the OS and the graphics card or something. I don't know. All I know is that if an average computer user tried to install it, it would not install properly and that's Apple's failure.

Maybe panther will have the same problem - we'll see. The way I'm doing it is to take out the lombard hard drive and put it in my father's pismo that has DVD. I'll install it on to that hard drive and then just put it back in my mother's computer.

P

[typoon]

Originally posted by pete:
Person Man,

I've tried over and over again to install Jaguar on my mother's lombard. It took me a long time to get it on there and once I did it still doesn't work perfectly. Day to day operations are usually ok, but after sleep it flickers when the screen comes back on. Sometimes the LCD doesn't light up at all after waking and I have to restart. Sometimes when I restart it take 2-3 times to get the LCD on. I've tried rebooting in OS 9 and there are no problems then so it's definitely not a straight hardware problem. It seems there is some kind of incompatibility between the OS and the graphics card or something. I don't know. All I know is that if an average computer user tried to install it, it would not install properly and that's Apple's failure.

Maybe panther will have the same problem - we'll see. The way I'm doing it is to take out the lombard hard drive and put it in my father's pismo that has DVD. I'll install it on to that hard drive and then just put it back in my mother's computer.

P

Why do that. Just remove the DVD drive from your Dad's Pismo. It SHOULD fit in the Lombard. install Panther then return drive to you dad.

[pete]

that's waaaaay too easy! I was thinking that the lombard needed a dvd hardware decoder to be able to use dvd - but that was the wallstreet. Too easy for me to even think of! You saved me a lot of time and irritation. Thanks!

[typoon]

Originally posted by pete:
that's waaaaay too easy! I was thinking that the lombard needed a dvd hardware decoder to be able to use dvd - but that was the wallstreet. Too easy for me to even think of! You saved me a lot of time and irritation. Thanks!

I don't think the Lombard needed that. Even if it did I think the decoder would only be for viewing DVD's. Too bad the Wallstreets didn't include the secret decoder ring.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by pete:
Person Man,

I've tried over and over again to install Jaguar on my mother's lombard. It took me a long time to get it on there and once I did it still doesn't work perfectly. Day to day operations are usually ok, but after sleep it flickers when the screen comes back on. Sometimes the LCD doesn't light up at all after waking and I have to restart. Sometimes when I restart it take 2-3 times to get the LCD on. I've tried rebooting in OS 9 and there are no problems then so it's definitely not a straight hardware problem. It seems there is some kind of incompatibility between the OS and the graphics card or something. I don't know. All I know is that if an average computer user tried to install it, it would not install properly and that's Apple's failure.

Maybe panther will have the same problem - we'll see. The way I'm doing it is to take out the lombard hard drive and put it in my father's pismo that has DVD. I'll install it on to that hard drive and then just put it back in my mother's computer.

P

That's very odd. I never had any of those problems with Jaguar on my Lombard (which was the 400 MHz model, with DVD drive), other than the fact that Jaguar couldn't take full advantage of the on-board graphics like OS 9 could.

There may still be a problem with the hardware. OS X tends to stress hardware more than OS 9 did. Memory sticks that fail spec may work fine under OS 9, but can fail under OS X. Perhaps the LCD is failing, or the backlight is starting to go out?

I bought a Titanium PBG4 before Panther came out, but I sold my Lombard to my brother and he installed Panther on it, and has had no problems with it, either. It is definitely faster on the Lombard than Jaguar was.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by pete:
that's waaaaay too easy! I was thinking that the lombard needed a dvd hardware decoder to be able to use dvd - but that was the wallstreet. Too easy for me to even think of! You saved me a lot of time and irritation. Thanks!

The DVD decoder board was a separate item that was not contained in the DVD drive itself. You can try using a DVD drive from a Pismo in the Lombard, but I may not work. I remember when the Pismo came out Apple said that the DVD drive from a Lombard wouldn't work in a Pismo, but I don't know if the reverse is true (i.e. use Pismo DVD drive in a Lombard). It's worth a shot.

[pete]

In OS 9 it works perfectly with no graphics problems so I don't know what it could be. I removed the 256 ram chip I put in but still have the same problem. I was able to install panther on the machine though without a hitch using the Pimso DVD drive in the lombard so that was good. But still the same problems....aaaah. Besides the graphics problems mentioned above, the machine seems reliable though.

[-Q-]

Another option would be to crack open the Lombard and put the drive in an external FireWire case and plug that into the Pismo. Install and then put the drive back in the Lombard.

But if you can use your dad's DVD drive, that would be the easiest thing to do.

[cal6n]

Point 1.

A Pismo DVD will work fine in a lombard for data use. However they've a habit of losing their "bootability" when they get old.

Point 2.

When installing panther (and probably Jag too) remove any RAM from the top slot. You can replace it after the installation but if it's in during the installation then graphical horrors lurk!



Cal6n

[typoon]

Originally posted by Person Man:
The DVD decoder board was a separate item that was not contained in the DVD drive itself. You can try using a DVD drive from a Pismo in the Lombard, but I may not work. I remember when the Pismo came out Apple said that the DVD drive from a Lombard wouldn't work in a Pismo, but I don't know if the reverse is true (i.e. use Pismo DVD drive in a Lombard). It's worth a shot.

Yeah the Drive from a lombard didn't work in a Pismo but it worked in reverse Go figure.

[pete]

panther is installed on my mother's lombard and works ok except for a few problems:

1. When waking from sleep large white vertical stripes flash before I get the desktop

2. Sometimes it doesn't wake from sleep and has to be rebooted

3. It doesn't wake from sleep automatically whent he clamshell is opened

4. Sometimes when rebooting the display doesn't come on and I have to force reboot


This machine works flawlessly under Macos 9 so I do believe this is a software issue. Any thoughts?

Thanks