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Chris Grande · Jun 9, 2004, 01:24 PM

I was looking at the new G5s and this little blurb on the right of one of the pages doesn't make sense. I know you can't do this with Panther, so maybe a feature of Tiger?. What do you guys think?

Developer · Jun 9, 2004, 01:34 PM

The updated G5 are available in July; Tiger some time next year.
I don't see why think Apple can't include an updated setup assistent with the G5s.

absmiths · Jun 9, 2004, 01:55 PM

What would be REALLY great is if Apple could migrate your applications as well. Of course, somebody would set up a machine and create hundreds of clones with Office X, Adobe CS, etc - so Apple would probably never do it.

Art Vandelay · Jun 9, 2004, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
What would be REALLY great is if Apple could migrate your applications as well. Of course, somebody would set up a machine and create hundreds of clones with Office X, Adobe CS, etc - so Apple would probably never do it.

Anyone can do that already with Panther's Disk Utility and they provide imaging tools with OS X Server.

mishap · Jun 9, 2004, 02:17 PM

Cant you do this with any mac?

Make the computer into an external firewire hard drive by holding down the T key at startup while it is connected to another computer with a firewire cable.

I did it when i upgraded to my new 12"

JHromadka · Jun 9, 2004, 03:01 PM

Yes with any Mac.

Busemann · Jun 9, 2004, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
What would be REALLY great is if Apple could migrate your applications as well.

Re-read the text and you will be a happy man

RooneyX · Jun 9, 2004, 04:53 PM

Everytime I buy a new Mac I either copy my stuff across via ethernet or iPod. I think Apple is just saying it's far easier with OSX than it is with Windows because our apps are packages and don't install a bunch of dlls. Back Up Utility and .mac synching also makes the game easier.

Spheric Harlot · Jun 9, 2004, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Everytime I buy a new Mac I either copy my stuff across via ethernet or iPod. I think Apple is just saying it's far easier with OSX than it is with Windows because our apps are packages and don't install a bunch of dlls. Back Up Utility and .mac synching also makes the game easier.

That doesn't quite qualify for "the new Mac OS X setup assistant", does it?

And Tiger "some time next year"?

I don't think so.

Apple said that Tiger would be the last yearly release, and that the pace would slow down afterwards. I take that to mean Tiger this year.

Wouldn't make much sense to preview it at WWDC now, would it? (Unless Apple are pulling a Longhorn...)

-s*

Spheric Harlot · Jun 9, 2004, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Everytime I buy a new Mac I either copy my stuff across via ethernet or iPod. I think Apple is just saying it's far easier with OSX than it is with Windows because our apps are packages and don't install a bunch of dlls. Back Up Utility and .mac synching also makes the game easier.

That doesn't quite qualify for "the new Mac OS X setup assistant", does it?

And Tiger "some time next year"?

I don't think so.

Apple said that Tiger would be the last yearly release, and that the pace would slow down afterwards. I take that to mean Tiger this year.

Wouldn't make much sense to preview it at WWDC now, would it? (Unless Apple are pulling a Longhorn...)

-s*

RooneyX · Jun 9, 2004, 05:43 PM

If it says 'new set up assistant' that could be Tiger but why put it on the website when Tiger is several months away from release? Perhaps it means the new Panther setup discs that come with the new machines?

Brass · Jun 9, 2004, 06:37 PM

It is NOT part of Tiger. It is simply a new version of the Setup assistant (the old version of which is installed on all new Macs already). It is not necessarily an OS-specific tool. It will be introduced first with the next new Mac in the line-up, which is the new G5's announced today.

madmacgames · Jun 10, 2004, 01:41 AM

The blurb is talking about the setup assistant. That little app that runs when you 1st setup your Mac where you put in you name, address, time zone, etc, etc, etc... Looks like they are adding features to it so users can migrate from a previous system using the assistant.

blackbird_1.0 · Jun 10, 2004, 02:43 AM

I filled out an ADc questionaire the other day. Got an email from Apple, saying that I could download and test a preview of its new Spoken Interface.

Any know anything more about this Spoken Interface? Besides the obvious.

Simon · Jun 10, 2004, 02:57 AM

It's not a part of Tiger. It's a new installer. It comes with the new G5s. I started a thread on it here.

Boondoggle · Jun 10, 2004, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by blackbird_1.0:
I filled out an ADc questionaire the other day. Got an email from Apple, saying that I could download and test a preview of its new Spoken Interface.

Any know anything more about this Spoken Interface? Besides the obvious.

the important thing to know is that it cannot be uninstalled. You need to reinstall the OS if you want to get rid of it. So be sure you want to play with it or install it on a non-critical volume

absmiths · Jun 10, 2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Busemann:
Re-read the text and you will be a happy man

Yeah, somehow I missed that. I wonder how thorough it is - does it get stuff in the Application Support folders? What about StartupItems? How about extensions? Contextual Menu Items?

Surely it can't get all that stuff. One of the disadvantages to Apple's non-uniform installation methodology (as opposed to Windows' Windows Installer approach) is that installation of apps which do more than a simple drag-and-drop install can be rather esoteric - not to mention the utter lack of uninstallers (a feature I would very much like to see.)

mitchell_pgh · Jun 10, 2004, 04:08 PM

I think this is an amazing little application, but it really only makes users consider upgrading a little earlier.

Maflynn · Jun 10, 2004, 05:06 PM

I think that's new migration app that will be included in the new G5s at least so says MacFixit

Big Mac · Jun 10, 2004, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
Surely it can't get all that stuff. One of the disadvantages to Apple's non-uniform installation methodology (as opposed to Windows' Windows Installer approach) is that installation of apps which do more than a simple drag-and-drop install can be rather esoteric - not to mention the utter lack of uninstallers (a feature I would very much like to see.)

This is off-topic, but I'm wondering absmiths, are you saying that Windows installation/uninstallation is superior to the Mac OS's? First of all, Windows applications use proprietary installers all the time. Secondly, have you ever heard of DLLs? Furthermore, when you try to use the Windows uninstaller, it often fails to do the job. If you think Windows installers are clean, you haven't been on Windows that long.

Now with OS X, most applications aren't installed via drag and drop, which is what Apple encourages. Now Apple itself uses the Installer way too often, even for trivial things like iDisk Utility. Worse, they removed early on from Installer the Uninstall option that used to be available in the OpenStep version. Fortunately, as long as third parties don't start using Installer, I don't see much of a problem. Apple has to use Installer for system updates, and since they are updates to core system files, an uninstaller wouldn't be feasible anyway. Yes, it would be nice if Apple provided a universal uninstaller that even drag-and-drop apps registered with, but I think that could actually encourage more third parties to use Installers. The current arrangement seems pretty darn close to optimal.

Back on topic, now that the OP's graphic loaded for me, I wish I had a G4 MDD to transfer to a G5.

siflippant · Jun 11, 2004, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
It's not a part of Tiger. It's a new installer. It comes with the new G5s. I started a thread on it here.

But this thread was opened up on 09.06.04...

absmiths · Jun 11, 2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Big Mac:
This is off-topic, but I'm wondering absmiths, are you saying that Windows installation/uninstallation is superior to the Mac OS's? First of all, Windows applications use proprietary installers all the time. Secondly, have you ever heard of DLLs? Furthermore, when you try to use the Windows uninstaller, it often fails to do the job. If you think Windows installers are clean, you haven't been on Windows that long.

I've been using Windows full time at work since '95 so that should be long enough (W3.11/W95/W98/WNT/W2K Pro/Server, etc). I do believe that in most cases the Windows Installer methodology is superior - if for no other reason than they HAVE a methodology. Apple's simplistic DND approach breaks down for even simple things (WireTap, Pro Tools, almost all i-apps and MANY otehrs) and there is nowhere to go for more complex installation options (Other than the Apple Installer which lacks uninstall/reinstall). There is also no central place to manage installed applications, which I think is also a good idea.

By the way, this off topic discussion has nothing to do with DLLs, APIs, or even the implementation of the Windows Installer. The Windows Installer can uninstall an app (in my experience) 99% of the time. Outside of deleting the .app file, there is nothing even equivalent on the Mac.

DND installs are nice, but not appropriate a lot of the time. Developers shouldn't have to write stuff like MS Office does to check if installation is necessary, so there is clearly a gap.

Not everything MS invented is bad . . .

Simon · Jun 11, 2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by absmiths:
DND installs are nice, but not appropriate a lot of the time.

There is no need to make stuff more complicated than necessary. DND installs are more than enough for almost any application. A big majority of Mac users wants nothing else.

Drakino · Jun 11, 2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
(Unless Apple are pulling a Longhorn...)

You mean pulling an OS X, or pulling a Chicago (Windows 95)? Any time a company plans a major OS jump, they have to talk about it way ahead of time to get programmers used to the newer methods of working with the OS. Longhorn changes a lit of the behind the scenes stuff, so MS programmers need to know this now to have programs ready when Longhorn ships. Just as people on the OS X camp needed to at least learn what they needed to do to their existing code to make it run as a true OS X application and not one via Classic.

Tiger, not being a hige jump behind the scenes will be out in a matter of months after WWDC. We just have to wait and see what date they pin it to. If they say January or further out, I won't be all that suprised.