[bma_mat99]

how do you log into root?

[gorickey]

Answer.

By the way, if you are asking...chances are you don't want to mess around with root unless you know what you are doing. Why do you need root enabled?

[bma_mat99]

no reason, from what i hear, root is just like logging into an account with full privilages, but hey, thats just what impression i have of it.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
no reason, from what i hear, root is just like logging into an account with full privilages, but hey, thats just what impression i have of it.

Logging in as root is not like logging in as an administrator. Root has the ability to hose the system very easily, as well as being a security risk.

You will rarely need root privileges. If you do need root privileges, sudo. Spending any time logged in as root is just reckless.

[wadesworld]

Not only that, but there really is no reason to log in as root.

sudo and sudo -s will do everything one needs to do.

Wade

[bma_mat99]

what is sudo lol?

[Brass]

If you want to do anything as root, the best way is to log in as a normal user, the open the Terminal application.

In the Terminal, precede any command with "sudo" to do that command as the root user (you'll be asked for your password the first time). Eg, "sudo ls" instead of "ls" for a directory listing.

To do a whole lot of stuff as root, in the Terminal enter the command "sudo -s". This will give you a shell running as root, so whatever you do from that point on will be done as root.

However, if you don't know this already, you are at great risk of screwing things up, which is quite easy to do when root.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
what is sudo lol?

sudo lol =

some users don't operate like other loyalists

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
no reason, from what i hear, root is just like logging into an account with full privilages, but hey, thats just what impression i have of it.

I'm sorry, you just proved that you are not qualified to use root. The general advice is "don't enable it unless you know what you're doing". You don't know what you're doing, so don't enable it.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
what is sudo lol?

man sudo

Code:
sudo(8)                      MAINTENANCE COMMANDS                      sudo(8)

NAME
       sudo - execute a command as another user

SYNOPSIS
       sudo -V | -h | -l | -L | -v | -k | -K | -s | [ -H ] [-P ] [-S ] [ -b ]
       | [ -p prompt ] [ -c class|- ] [ -a auth_type ] [ -u username|#uid ]
       command

DESCRIPTION
       sudo allows a permitted user to execute a command as the superuser or
       another user, as specified in the sudoers file.  The real and effective
       uid and gid are set to match those of the target user as specified in
       the passwd file (the group vector is also initialized when the target
       user is not root).  By default, sudo requires that users authenticate
       themselves with a password (NOTE: by default this is the user's pass-
       word, not the root password).  Once a user has been authenticated, a
       timestamp is updated and the user may then use sudo without a password
       for a short period of time (5 minutes unless overridden in sudoers).

[Amorya]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I'm sorry, you just proved that you are not qualified to use root. The general advice is "don't enable it unless you know what you're doing". You don't know what you're doing, so don't enable it.

And most people who know what they're doing don't enable root! I've never used root login. I haven't yet come to any situation where an ordinary administrator login was not enough to accomplish what I wanted to do.

Unless you have a specific reason for enabling root, leave well alone. I would doubt you would ever need a graphical root login, unless you were a coder working on something lying low in the operating system. And if so, such a coder would definitely have a backup machine with root enabled, and not do so on his/her main box.


Amorya

[Powaqqatsi]

You heard them bma_mat99 don't do it. There is no use in it (except for the high nerd-factor).

[Millennium]

Don't do it. Any good sysadmin can warn you of the dangers, ranging from security to stability. Given the number of preferences files OSX uses, you also have to deal with the fact that you'll be creating a bunch of them when you log in as root, and each one may as well be considered a little piece of filesystem damage.

You do not need root. You do not want root. Use sudo and the proper GUI authentication frameworks instead.

[Hal Itosis]

FWIW,

Mac users have been "logging in as root" for decades now.

OTOH,

that's why forums like these have been proven so necessary.

[Amorya]

Originally posted by Hal Itosis:
FWIW,

Mac users have been "logging in as root" for decades now.

OTOH,

that's why forums like these have been proven so necessary.

No.

A common misconception. The user on MacOS 9 is roughly akin to logging in as Administrator. 9 didn't have anything even remotely similar to root.

Administrator: click - "Are you sure you want to delete ten zillion files and hose your system?" - "no" - "have a nice day".

Root: click - boom - oops!


What people don't understand is, everything they need or want to do can be done as administrator! It might ask you for your password, or ask you are you sure, but that's just to make sure that someone else hasn't wandered up to your machine when you got up.


Amorya

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Hal Itosis:
Mac users have been "logging in as root" for decades now.

No, they haven't. I take your point though, and I would counter it with the fact that OS X is somewhat more fragile - there's lots more there that you can step on if you don't know what you're doing. The permissions model will insulate you from screwing things up too badly, hopefully.

On OS 9 as long as you didn't trash your System File or Finder you could probably boot. On OS X, if you lose the executable bit on some seemingly random text file you'll be hosed.

OS X is far more complex. It's far more powerful as a result, but it's still more complex. If you don't understand the added complexity, you can screw things up.

Don't do it.

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I'm sorry, you just proved that you are not qualified to use root. The general advice is "don't enable it unless you know what you're doing". You don't know what you're doing, so don't enable it.

You know its really not your place to say that he proved he isn't qualified.
How does he learn if he doesn't use it?
Its his machine he can do what he wants with it.
If h mucks up his system then he has nobody to blame but himself.
Finally answers like this border on the arrogant. So far there's been little explantation as to why its dangerous. Just that he's not qualified.

For example, logging in as root, you don't have a home directory.
You can modify system files.
You can change permissions on system files thus making them unusable.
You can change how OSX reacts and interacts by changing the netinfo databasee
You can basically screw OSX so it doesn't boot.


Mike

[Brass]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
For example, logging in as root, you don't have a home directory.

Yes it does. Just go into the Terminal and type "cd ~root". It will change directory to root's home (/private/var/root).

In fact, in unix, you cannot get a login shell (using most normal shells) at all if you do not have a home directory. Most shells will just exit immediately with an error such as "No home directory" or "Could not chdir to <non-existant home directory>".

[awaspaas]

I fully support his desire to login as root, and think he should go through his /System folder and delete some files while he's at it.

[Earth Mk. II]

Using root, especially logging in as root, and most especially logging in as root without experience, and most eminently especially when logging in as root with or without experience through a GUI, is the computing equivalent of loading an automatic rifle, turning the safety off, handing it to your best friend (with no firearm experience), and then asking him to shoot your feet while you dance the Macarena.

Not a "good thing™."


Logging in as root from a GUI will look no different to you as a user, and will not warn you about actions and events that could damage your system. Basically, you'll be increasing the potential risk of using the system with little, if any, benefit. It's not unheard of that some software X will simply stop working for normal users after being installed/modified by root.

If you want to try root, use sudo -s. Which will give you a root shell, without requiring the root user to be enabled. root is safer from the command line anyway - since you need to think about what you're typing. And, if you're trying to learn, using the CLI is the best way.

To quote from the KB article (emphasis added):

Enabling and using the "root" user in Mac OS X - Section 4: About the root user
The user named "root" is a special user in UNIX-style operating systems that has read and write privileges to all areas of the file system.

The root user should only be used for specific administration or monitoring tasks. After completing a task as the root user, you should log out of Mac OS X and log back in using a normal or administrator account. You should disable root access if you do not use it often.

Warning[list=1][*]Only the owner of a computer or its designated administrator(s) should have an administrator account or the root password. [*]Any user with an administrator account can become the root user or reset the root password. [*]A root password should be difficult to guess, containing both numbers and letters within the first eight characters. [*]A root user has the ability to read other users' files. [*]The root user has the ability to relocate or remove required system files and to introduce new files in locations that are protected from other users.[/list=1]

[philzilla]

Originally posted by awaspaas:
I fully support his desire to login as root, and think he should go through his /System folder and delete some files while he's at it.

assuming he's not just a pc troll (which is how most of his posts come across), then i'm with you on that one.

[Richard Edgar]

A common misconception. The user on MacOS 9 is roughly akin to logging in as Administrator. 9 didn't have anything even remotely similar to root

Yes and no. In the Classic MacOS, the OS was fairly good at stopping users from hosing things. However, in the strictest sense (i.e. what was absolutely prevented), I would say that the user on MacOS 9 is more powerful than root on a Unix system. Want some fun? Fire up ResEdit, and start deleting resources from the active System suitcase or the Finder. It'll warn you, but it won't stop you. Furthermore, any application on the Classic MacOS can scribble all over the memory of any other application, or even the OS itself. I don't believe that even root can violate the memory protection of Unix.

[Spheric Harlot]

I suggest searching this forum for threads which have "root" in the title for long, detailed, tedious and/or marvellous arguments on why regularly logging in as root is a stupid idea.

There was also a pretty good - and funny - discussion on slashdot, back when OS X was new and all the newbies wanted bigger penises.

-s*

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
How does he learn if he doesn't use it?

You can learn a lot about root and permissions and the gubbins in OS X without enabling root and logging in to the GUI as it. You know, from like, books, and teh intarweb.

Its his machine he can do what he wants with it.

Of course. I merely forcefully made the point that he shouldn't, as he doesn't know what he's doing.

If h mucks up his system then he has nobody to blame but himself.
Finally answers like this border on the arrogant. So far there's been little explantation as to why its dangerous. Just that he's not qualified.

I really do apologise for not wanting to hold someone's hand and give them a detailed explanation as to why it's a bad idea when it has been covered multiple times here and when there are such wonderful services as Google in this world.

For example, logging in as root, you don't have a home directory.

Bzzt. Wrong.

You can modify system files.

You can modify system files without "logging into root", using sudo. The problem is you can modify them more easily, meaning you can do it accidentally, WITH NO WARNINGS.

You can change permissions on system files thus making them unusable.

What's a "permission"?!?!?!???

You can change how OSX reacts and interacts by changing the netinfo databasee

Sure, and you can do that without being root, too.

<SARCASM> If you want to learn how to use your computer and be a UNIX expert, enable root in NetInfo Manager, log in as root in the GUI, open the Terminal and type "sudo srm -rfmz /" without the quotes. Then hit the return key. </SARCASM>

(Disclaimer: I am not responsible for the actions of any idiots that follow the directions in the paragraph immediately preceding this one. If you type execute arbitrary terminal commands from people in a forum without knowing what they do, you deserve to be castrated.)

[Maflynn]

For example, logging in as root, you don't have a home directory.
Bzzt. Wrong.

Your right, I was trying to convey that root does not have folders in the users folder but in the /var folder.

quote:
You can change permissions on system files thus making them unusable.
What's a "permission"?!?!?!???

From Webster:
1 : the act of permitting
2 : formal consent : AUTHORIZATION

For OSX it is the mechanism that allows/ disallows read/write access to files. Going in as root allows you access update any file's permissions list. You could conceivably change an OSX system file to no access or change its ownership which may prevent OSX from operating.

To see permissions in action do a get info on a file and view the ownership & Permissions area. OSX has three sets, one for the owner, the group and other.

Since you asking what permission is I think that disqualifies you from telling others they cannot go in as root

[NeilCharter]

Messing with the base system in UNIX can have unforeseen consequences. For example I worked in a lab that had SGI Unix machines for structure modeling. For some reason, the administrators set the root to have no password (probably for convenience). Finally the machine was hacked in and used to gain access to DOE / Government machines.

Once the university found once, all hell broke loss. We almost lost access to the internet as a result.

Now the guys (including a professor) who ran the machines were experienced UNIX users who just got lazy with their superuser privilages. It is very easy to do and the consequences could have been very severe.

Activating root seems unneccessary to me. By default, Apple have root access switched off. That's a smart move on their part and to activate it (or at least change the password) you need physical access to the machine.

As said by many here, sudo will give you the ability to do everything you should need to do.

It is also not insulting to tell someone that they do not have the experience and understand the consequences of their action, it is actually good for the community.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
Since you asking what permission is I think that disqualifies you from telling others they cannot go in as root

go and look up "sarcasm" on Webster.

[Maflynn]

Actually I did, hence my post

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Hal Itosis:
[B]FWIW,

Mac users have been "logging in as root" for decades now./B]

No, they haven't. As others have pointed out, this is a common misconception. Root isn't just about the filesystem, however; with root, it is possible to do things which just plain could not be done on the old Mac OS, and most of these are things you Do Not Want To Do. But root being what it is, there is nothing to protect you from doing these accidentally.

Anyone who logs in as root is an idiot. This has been proven over the 35-odd years of Unix's existence. The only time one ever needs to log in as root in any Unix, including OSX, is to install the OS and create the first non-root user, and OSX handles both of these tasks automatically anyway, so the need to log in as root is totally eliminated.

Desiring to enable the root account is inherently proof that one is not qualified to do it, because if you were qualified then you would know how to do what you wanted without logging in as root.

[Hal Itosis]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Anyone who logs in as root is an idiot.

Academicians proliferate dogma.

[mike one]

i'd go with 'sudo'.
there have been a few occasions where i have logged in as root in the beta, and 10.1, but knowing what i do now, there is no need to do that.

i didn't know about 'sudo -s' until now... thanks for that y'all.
that will come in real handy...

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
Your right, I was trying to convey that root does not have folders in the users folder but in the /var folder.

OK, but how is that relevant?

Since you asking what permission is I think that disqualifies you from telling others they cannot go in as root

I was pointing out that joe user won't know what a permission is, and that trying to explain it in terms of permissions is probably not going to be much use. If you want to know why logging in as root is bad, as I have said, it is well documented. Otherwise just accept it. Giving people half-truths is worse than no truths at all, in a lot of cases.

[Richard Edgar]

Root isn't just about the filesystem, however; with root, it is possible to do things which just plain could not be done on the old Mac OS, and most of these are things you Do Not Want To Do. But root being what it is, there is nothing to protect you from doing these accidentally

Errrmmmm what are those things that cannot be done on the Classic MacOS that root can do under OSX? Like I said, any user program under the Classic MacOS can stomp on any memory it likes. From that point on, all bets are off.

[Africa]

Thought I'd throw my thoughts into the Lion Pit.

My suggestions are:

1. Create an Administrator account. (This is a safety measure)
2. Create another account for yourself and make it an administrator too. (This will be the account you normally use for everything)

Then:

1. Enable "root", give it a password you'll remember. (Remember it!!)
2. Don't use the root account. (It is there for safety reasons)

Reasons:
1. If your main account gets hosed, log in as the other administrator level account, "Administrator", and use it to repair the damage.
2. Anything you need to do as root you should be able to do through "sudo", so you shouldn't need to use the "Root" account anyway.
3. If you ever really need to log in as "Root" for some random, freak accident type of reason, which is a long shot, it might help to have it enabled first.
4. If you don't know what you are doing and "Root" is now your last resort, you can get a Mac person that knows what they are doing to use the account and save you.

Feel free to tear this apart.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Glancing at the apple article referenced at the top, I noticed that it states that on OSX SERVER root is enabled BY DEFAULT - and that it should be KEPT enabled.

Not that I'm near to needing to run an OS X server, but I'm curious why servers need to keep root enabled?

[Turnpike]

Enabling root is a very, very stupid thing to do unless you know EXACTLY what and why you need to do it. Using root when you don't have to (which is 99.99999% of the time you'll be using your computer, at LEAST, unless you are running a server perhaps) is just as stupid. Root is not "cooler" in any way.

root is just like logging into an account with full privilages, but hey, thats just what impression i have of it.

Admin accounts have full privileges, plus added safety measures and less capability to blow stuff up accidentally. If you WANT to hose your system, it as possible to do with an Admin account as it is with a root account... you're just way less likely to do it by accident.

Judging by your posts and their attitude, you mostly needed somebody to tell you that you really shouldn't be looking at using root all the time. Most of the aggressive posts here are directed at the people who are telling you to go ahead and use root or that we should be telling you everything about root.

Look at it this way. You didn't know what it was, but were tempted by the sound of it. Like a child, tempted by a stranger's candy. Most of us said, "man, don't eat that candy, that's a bad idea... it might be fine, but you might as well get some from your mom, 'cause she gives it to you for free and you know it'll be not-deadly". Unfortunately, a few people said "hey, let the dude take the candy if he wants... how is he going to learn to distinguish deadly candy and date-rape candy from regular candy if you don't let him try it all out?"

As an additional point, many people here are taking the stance that if you don't know exactly what you are doing in root that you shouldn't be in root because they know this is correct. If you have to ask how to enable root, and ask what sudo is, chances are after enabling root you'd come back in here in a month and ask if you were going to have to reinstall your computer, and we'd say yes.

Again, I don't think most of the hostility/aggression in this thread is aimed at the OP... the OP didn't know what it was, and didn't know the dangers. That's fine, now you know. Some people, however, seemed to either not know the dangers and be advocating root's use or, worse yet, know the dangers of it and still be advocating its use. Perhaps to these people the computer is no more than a toy to them and if it crashes and the disk is hosed and they need to reinstall, no big deal. Most people either aren't that spoiled with money and time or just have greater powers of logic and reasoning.

[drive-thru]

Some advice for the kids (this should clear up a few things)...

root is like crack

don't smoke it. i did once and got hooked. i ran mac os updates as root. fu©k, i even had sex with my girlfriend as root. man, that caused some permissions problems. when i started the road to recovery (logging in as zacks) my girlfriend was all like: "fu©k no! you can't get any cause you don't own me an i don't go groups. you don't have the power to read, write or execute so get out of my face" so i was all hell no bitch. and she wuz like you do not have root (superuser) privlages so get out of my trublueenvironment! so then i went chown and chmodded her ass to me. dat be-otch be up in my hizzouse. what what. holla!

[Millennium]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
how do you log into root?

You don't, if you're smart. There is no need to do it unless you're installing WebObjects (and then only to install that specific program), and it tends to leave small bits of damage behind in your system that can be a real pain to hunt down and fix.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Millennium:
There is no need to do it unless you're installing WebObjects (and then only to install that specific program)

Is that even still the case? I thought that was fixed in ~5.2, which is about 3 years old as it is...

[Amorya]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
Is that even still the case? I thought that was fixed in ~5.2, which is about 3 years old as it is...

It's not still the case. 5.2 installed fine here.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Millennium:
You don't, if you're smart. There is no need to do it unless you're installing WebObjects (and then only to install that specific program), and it tends to leave small bits of damage behind in your system that can be a real pain to hunt down and fix.

While it is true that these days you never need to use the root account (you can use sudo or one of the many graphical utility applications to achieve the same functionality safely), I still think that categorically telling someone "don't do it" makes it more attractive to the individual, because most people are "just curious." These people may enable it once, log in, poke around a bit, log out and disable it (or not) and probably will never log in as root again, once their curiosity has been satisfied.

So for those curious people, I offer the following advice:

1. Listen to what everyone else here is telling you: Don't enable or log in as root.

2. You can, however ignore point #1 above AT YOUR OWN RISK. After all, it *is* your computer, and you can do whatever you wish. If you wish to do so, you can easily find information elsewhere on how to enable the root account and log in as root. If you do this, PLEASE BACK UP YOUR COMPUTER FIRST! Then you can play in root until your curiosity is satisfied, and if you mess things up, you can restore your computer from the backup.

3. If you don't have a backup, and you messed around in root and screwed up your computer, don't come crying about it here... you've been on your own the minute you ignored point #1 above.

Thoughts from the others on this are welcome.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by drive-thru:
Some advice for the kids (this should clear up a few things)...

That was one of the more disturbing things I've read...

[theolein]

Just to be a dick (which is probably ok, since I really ask myself why everyone is replying to a thread by bma_matt99 a.k.a bettafish, if I'm not mistaken?) I'll go ahead and say that I always enable root on my machines. The reason I do this is because I sometimes need to work with a root shell (yes, yes, I know about sudo -s, but I prefer to su, so su me ) to edit some of those dinky files in /etc (httpd.conf, crontab, you name it), but also because having a root account saved my bacon once or twice back when OSX was new and I was able to save some stuff via the console. I look upon it as a last resort.

Obviously, logging in as root to the GUI is not my idea of a good thing to do, and I don't even think OSX was really designed for this, thankfully, as it is a major problem on the windows side of things.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Yes and no. In the Classic MacOS, the OS was fairly good at stopping users from hosing things. However, in the strictest sense (i.e. what was absolutely prevented), I would say that the user on MacOS 9 is more powerful than root on a Unix system. Want some fun? Fire up ResEdit, and start deleting resources from the active System suitcase or the Finder. It'll warn you, but it won't stop you.

Huh? In OS X, you can just as easily delete anything out of the /System directory, and the .rsrc files can be mucked with just as they could in OS 9. But that's not even the point - as root, you can drag the whole /System directory into the Trash and empty it without a warning! Try that in OS 9, it wouldn't let you. Root is vastly more powerful than OS 9 was.

Basically, it boils down to:

1. Logging in as root is extremely dangerous

2. You can do anything root can do from an admin account - you're just warned first, and sometimes prompted for a password. There is never any reason to need to log in as root to do anything (I haven't needed to in 3 years of using OS X).

Given these two facts, why would you want to log in as root?

[Brass]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Huh? In OS X, you can just as easily delete anything out of the /System directory, and the .rsrc files can be mucked with just as they could in OS 9. But that's not even the point - as root, you can drag the whole /System directory into the Trash and empty it without a warning! Try that in OS 9, it wouldn't let you. Root is vastly more powerful than OS 9 was.

I don't think that's an entirely fair comparison. That is a comparison of the Finder (an integrated application) in OS 9 and OS X, not a comparison of the account privileges in the Operating System.

I don't know if you could delete the System Folder in OS 9 in other ways (eg, ported CLI shells).

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Brass:
I don't think that's an entirely fair comparison. That is a comparison of the Finder (an integrated application) in OS 9 and OS X, not a comparison of the account privileges in the Operating System.

I don't know if you could delete the System Folder in OS 9 in other ways (eg, ported CLI shells).

He was claiming that OS 9 was more powerful than root because you could mess with the System file using ResEdit, a developer application. I'm saying that you can't get much more powerful than being able to delete the whole System folder without being warned.

[goMac]

Root should only be used by people who know what they're doing...

People who know what they're doing don't need to enable root because they know how to use su..

Thus root should never be enabled.

(The only good use of root is on Mac OS X Server where it is possible to hose your user's ldap entry/ the database the entry is in. In since root is a BSD user it is not affected. This is why root is enabled by default on OS X Server)

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
He was claiming that OS 9 was more powerful than root because you could mess with the System file using ResEdit, a developer application. I'm saying that you can't get much more powerful than being able to delete the whole System folder without being warned.

The entire comparison is arbitrary and flawed, really. Just accept that it's a bad thing

[Lew]

Maybe people want to justify buying this T-shirt

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Mimizuku no Lew:
Maybe people want to justify buying this T-shirt

$ sudo whoami
root
$