[tooki]

This is a reminder to everyone about what the Mac OS X forum is for: It is for threads that discuss the Mac OS X operating system itself.

The following (non-exhaustive) list describes sample topics that do NOT belong here:
-any threads about third-party applications
-any threads about Apple applications (including all the iApps!)
-any application requests ("I need an app that does X")
-any threads about peripherals and their drivers
-any threads about Mac OS 9 (OTHER than discussing the Classic mechanism)
-any threads about networking problems
-any threads about games

In summary:
-it is NOT a forum for discussion among Mac OS X users
-it is NOT a forum for discussion of apps that run on Mac OS X
-it is NOT a forum for discussion of apps that extend Mac OS X

Please post threads in the correct location; most of the above belong the Software and Peripherals forums. Any threads that do not belong here will be unceremoniously closed.

tooki

[philm]

I think you should rename the forum 'Operating system'. 'OSX' is just too generic and causes inappropriate postings.

[Krypton]

Originally posted by philm:
I think you should rename the forum 'Operating system'. 'OSX' is just too generic and causes inappropriate postings.

Or call it 'Mac OS' - now that Apple has disbanded all the OS X specific advertising/box logos.

[tooki]

Originally posted by philm:
I think you should rename the forum 'Operating system'. 'OSX' is just too generic and causes inappropriate postings.

There already is a detailed description of the forum that leaves no ambiguity:

Mac OS X
Discussion, support and speculation relating to the Mac OS X operating system. Topics about applications (including all Apple apps, such as iLife, Final Cut, DVD Studio Pro, AppleWorks, Safari, etc.) belong in the Software forum!

Taken right from http://forums.macnn.com. What part of that is "too generic"?

Originally posted by Krypton:
Or call it 'Mac OS' - now that Apple has disbanded all the OS X specific advertising/box logos.

This is not an all-inclusive forum for all versions of Mac OS -- it's for Mac OS X only. The Classic forum is for Mac OS 9 and earlier. Besides, I have no idea where you get this "disbanded all the...box logos." All the references to past and future versions of Mac OS X are spelled out just like that. That includes boxes and DVDs.

The point of this thread is not to invite discussion or attempt to rename the forum, but rather to remind people of the purpose of this forum, which has been exhaustively explained in multiple locations but seemingly falling on deaf (or lazy) ears.

tooki

[wataru]

Originally posted by tooki:
There already is a detailed description of the forum that leaves no ambiguity:
Taken right from http://forums.macnn.com. What part of that is "too generic"?

I just thought I'd point out that you don't see that description at all unless you happen to go to http://forums.macnn.com. At home I use bookmarks, and while on the road I use the popup menu from the MacNN top page.

[tooki]

This is true -- I use bookmarks, too. But at minimum the first time one comes to the forums, you read the descriptions, right?

I have been meaning to suggest to the forum customizer to have the descriptions show up at the top of the thread listing of each forum, I'll do that.

That said, in the forums where people frequently post wrong, we have the stickies, but people routinely ignore them.

tooki

[philm]

Originally posted by tooki:
There already is a detailed description of the forum that leaves no ambiguity:
Taken right from http://forums.macnn.com. What part of that is "too generic"?

This is not an all-inclusive forum for all versions of Mac OS -- it's for Mac OS X only. The Classic forum is for Mac OS 9 and earlier. Besides, I have no idea where you get this "disbanded all the...box logos." All the references to past and future versions of Mac OS X are spelled out just like that. That includes boxes and DVDs.

The point of this thread is not to invite discussion or attempt to rename the forum, but rather to remind people of the purpose of this forum, which has been exhaustively explained in multiple locations but seemingly falling on deaf (or lazy) ears.

tooki

By 'too generic' I was trying to sugges that people see 'Mac OS X' and see this to mean 'anything which runs on my computer which is running Mac OS X'. I know this is not logical, given the existance of the software forum, but we have to allow for understandale human failings! My evidence is simply that lots of people post into this forum incorrectly. If the forum were renamed as 'Operating system (OS X)' it would perhaps solve this. Anyway, I've said my bit. I will leave this thread alone.

[tooki]

Yes, I realize that a lot of people see it that way, which is why I posted this clarification thread!

tooki

[Diggory Laycock]

Is the Finder an application?

Just curious.

[diamondsw]

Originally posted by tooki:
This is true -- I use bookmarks, too. But at minimum the first time one comes to the forums, you read the descriptions, right?

I have been meaning to suggest to the forum customizer to have the descriptions show up at the top of the thread listing of each forum, I'll do that.

That said, in the forums where people frequently post wrong, we have the stickies, but people routinely ignore them.

tooki

It's fairly common to say in software development that if you really design an interface right, people won't need to read the manual. Similarly, if this forum were named properly to begin with, then you wouldn't need descriptions and threads like this one.

[theolein]

Originally posted by tooki:
This is true -- I use bookmarks, too. But at minimum the first time one comes to the forums, you read the descriptions, right?

I have been meaning to suggest to the forum customizer to have the descriptions show up at the top of the thread listing of each forum, I'll do that.

That said, in the forums where people frequently post wrong, we have the stickies, but people routinely ignore them.

tooki

Sali, tooki. Bisch wider im BAFH modus, gell?

I've noticed that many posters don't read (or possibly even notice) the forum topic guidelines, and this is due to the fact that there is a high level of ambiguity among forum members, by default, as to what constitutes the OS itself and what constitutes third party software. I think, possibly, that you are neither making it easier for yourself nor for the forum members by being stubborn about what constitutes the OS and refusing to make it clearer in the forum topic title.

I've noticed that the majority of members see certain software applications and subjects as part of the OS, even though they aren't strictly that. Apple itself doesn't make the subject any clearer in that Apple refers in its install documentation to the iApps as part of the OS. On newer Macs, with two DVD's containing the install software, a number of iApps are installed by default (iPhoto, iChat, Imovie etc) and others are not (iDVD, Garageband etc).

Also, refering to two threads, one just closed on Citrix metaframe clients and one open on X11 use, I beg to ask how an average or new user is supposed to know the difference. For example, although X11 is installed as an application on OSX, it would be hard to argue with new users coming from Linux or Unix, that X11 is not part of the OS functionality, but that many standard Mac members or Windows switchers would see it as as an application or utility, since that is where it is installed by default on OSX.

Similarly, I find it personally a bit ambiguous to call the Citrix client software (or Netware client for example), even if it is that, by default, rather than seeing it as something that belongs to and extends OSX functionality. By your strict definitions, such discussions should go where? in Software or in Networking? By rights, such software (networking clients) add both to OSX newtorking, OSX itself and can also be classified as software. I hope you see what I mean. There definitely is a high level of ambiguity in the forum guidelines.

I think the average user sees, from what I gather, that applications that have little to do with the OS itself (such as the iApps and most third party applications that do not add to the OS) go in the software forum, but that they are confused as to what constutes so called Unix functionality (command line only or X11 or what?), Networking (OSX built in networking only or third party extenders such as Citrix, Netware or Samba GUI clients?) and the OS itself (Is a third party preference panel part of software or is it part of the OS?)

To summarise, I don't mean to insult you, but I think you are making extra work for yourself and for the forum members by applying what many see as irrational and arbitrary guidleines to post topics. Perhaps it would be simply easier to "go with a flow" a little more?

[macaddict0001]

maybe if someone posts in the wrong forum say 8 times or more we ban them.

[diamondsw]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
maybe if someone posts in the wrong forum say 8 times or more we ban them.

Say the moderators get the stick out of their...

[:XI:]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
maybe if someone posts in the wrong forum say 8 times or more we ban them.

Maybe we should all submit posts 20 days in advance so that moderators can review them to verify that the content is both suitable and informative?

Jesus. This place is getting more and more uptight about the lamest ****.

Come on! RED WARNING NOTICES? What next? a filter for posts based on word count? "I'm sorry you have not exceeded the required minimum word count. Your post of "+1" has not been submitted, please edit your post and elaborate where necessary."

Yeah, I'm just poking you with a stick.

[pliny]

I like the forum name because that way tooki can keep on posting these "reminders" about what bothers him.

[Skypat]

Originally posted by tooki:
This is a reminder to everyone about what the Mac OS X forum is for: It is for threads that discuss the Mac OS X operating system itself.

The following (non-exhaustive) list describes sample topics that do NOT belong here:
-any threads about third-party applications
-any threads about Apple applications (including all the iApps!)
-any application requests ("I need an app that does X")
-any threads about peripherals and their drivers
-any threads about Mac OS 9 (OTHER than discussing the Classic mechanism)
-any threads about networking problems
-any threads about games

In summary:
-it is NOT a forum for discussion among Mac OS X users
-it is NOT a forum for discussion of apps that run on Mac OS X
-it is NOT a forum for discussion of apps that extend Mac OS X

Please post threads in the correct location; most of the above belong the Software and Peripherals forums. Any threads that do not belong here will be unceremoniously closed.

tooki

[theolein]

It's interesting to note that networking, in tooki's eyes, is not part of the OS itself.

This board is really becoming lame.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by theolein:
It's interesting to note that networking, in tooki's eyes, is not part of the OS itself.

This board is really becoming lame.

Most networking isn't OS specific. Why should we have to filter through all the people that can't get their Airport Express working? It has nothing to do with OS X.

Note, though, that virtually all OS X Server stuff is networking related and it IS in this forum.

[benb]

Originally posted by Detrius:
Most networking isn't OS specific. Why should we have to filter through all the people that can't get their Airport Express working? It has nothing to do with OS X.

Note, though, that virtually all OS X Server stuff is networking related and it IS in this forum.

I think the point was that while we appreciate all the effort the moderation staff puts into this place to make it nice for us, sometimes we would like you to just back off. Are there many people here (besides the staff) who are really that pissed off because a thread asking for help is in the 'wrong' forum, when the one who posted it really thought it was in the right spot?

In the grand scheme of things, who really cares about the 5 or so misposts a day when there are hundreds in the right spots? Just move on.

And another thing. To the vast majority of users, Airport Express is a part of OS X. They got it when the bought their Mac, set it up in OS X, and use it in OS X. So when it breaks, a part of the operating system broke. That may not make sense to me, or you, or many people here, but to most everyone else that is the way it works.

But you tell me. Are these announcements and revised forum descriptions actually working? To someone on the outside it doesn't seem like it, or there wouldn't be the constant need for these announcement threads.

I know that personally, I would rather "filter through" the few the few threads that really do not belong (but seem like they do) if a person can get help quicker and not be confused as to why their question was locked without explanation. I thought this place was to help users primarily, and I think that people would be better served if the staff collectively lightened up a bit.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by benb:
...if a person can get help quicker and not be confused as to why their question was locked without explanation...

This varies from situation to situation. I try not to lock threads unless they need to be locked. I try to move threads so that people can see where their topic should have been posted--without having to create a new topic.

The point isn't that one or two threads causes a problem--which is why they aren't just deleted. The point is that if EVERYONE posted their Airport Express problems in the Mac OS forum, then what's the point of the networking forum? There needs to be some sort of regulation to help people learn.