[KidRed]

Never tried a pre-release build before so here goes.

One thing I thought was cool that I haven't read on the boards yet is if you create an alias and drop it on the tool bar in a finder window then drag that to the trash, the trash icon changes to a pair of scissors cutting an alias arrow.

Copy and paste like windows os pretty easy, keyboard short cuts, contexual menus and regualr menus all do it. However, the actual contents don't get moved, so you'd have to copy/paste then go back to delete. Kinda silly I think.

You can change font smoothing down to size 8.

Updating 10.0.4 my desktop pictures folder was overwritten with the new folder with a few new pics and sub folders. So back up your favorite desktop pics before updating when 10.1 comes out.

New cool screensaver that fades your computer name against an apple logo, pretty neat looking.

Scrolling works in finder, in the column view which is also cool.

DVD works nicely although jerky if you start messing with the dock. The new player is sweet, hide controller if inactive for x amount of minutes, web link access, little floating messages (not permitted, chapter when you click forward, etc) full screen looks good, gets jerky on my iceBook at times tho.

Don't know if this is old, but you can't resize a finder window past the dock, it stops.

Menus are faster, launching is a little faster, IE took 4 bounces, Photoshop takes 1 bounce, QT took 7, etc.

Just clicked on a link inside QT and it opened a video from Dido that is a new skin with a new mask on a quicktime player, never seen this before, kinda of cool. K, dragging this new skinned QT window is about the slow speed of window resizing (slowwer than regualr window dragging). Wow, still have the video palying and tried to open Grab, the menus are slow now, wonder if QT drags this biuld down.

iTunes is faster on my iceBook running this 5g48 build then my G4 450 running 10.0.4. I get 15 FPS in 5g48 but only 7 FPS on my G4.

Sorry is some or all of this has been mentioned before, this is my first time posting on a now-old build, but I posted what I thought had not been mentioned. Any questions and I'll try to answer.

But to think that my iceBook could make my G4 look slow is saying something about the direction X is taking

[juanvaldes]

Thnaks, I didn't even know aobut the alias part.

one question now cause I'm drunk: I have left my comp on ever since I got 5G48 instaled so I have a week of uptime now. And the farther along I go it feels slower, I have been getting more and more "spinning pin wheels of death" Have you noticed this too?

[KidRed]

Funny you should ask, I have my iceBook next to my G4 and I just went back to it to see if I would notice any slow down, and now instead of the colored ball now I'm getting the old B&W cursor when IE is loading pages and I haven't seen the color ball yet. That's weird huh, that'd I'd see the old one more the the new colored ball? Also, after waking from sleep, my black mouse cursor didn't have it's white outline around t until I moved it around a bit.

[KidRed]

K, jus surfing the net, playing around the finder and some in classic the battery life was at 37% left after almost two hours of usage.

[SteveJobs]

Originally posted by KidRed:
<STRONG>K, jus surfing the net, playing around the finder and some in classic the battery life was at 37% left after almost two hours of usage.</STRONG>

is that good or not?

[KidRed]

Well, I think it's a little better than what 10.0.4 was. I saw some people saying they only got 2 hours or so when the battery is supposed to last for 4-5 hours. In 9 playing a DVD I got a little over 2 hours, I didn't play the DVD much but I would speculate close to 3 hours of battery life, seems better to me.

[mosespatrader]

I wish you could move files with a cut operations ala windows.

[edddeduck]

you can or may be only copy..... (In 10.1)

Edd

[ccrider]

yea, I wish you cut files as well. I think the copy function is one of the best new features of 10.1. Why couldn't they add the cut function? Apple could set a default preference that warns the user when they paste the file/folder. (Are you sure you want to move the folder "clients"?)

Newbies wouldn't freak out and pros could turn off the dialog box. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

[kernel_panic]

Originally posted by ccrider:
<STRONG>yea, I wish you cut files as well. I think the copy function is one of the best new features of 10.1. Why couldn't they add the cut function? Apple could set a default preference that warns the user when they paste the file/folder. (Are you sure you want to move the folder "clients"?)

Newbies wouldn't freak out and pros could turn off the dialog box. It seems like a no-brainer to me.</STRONG>

I think "cut" would be a real time-saver, BUT...

If the user "cuts" and forgets to paste, what happens? Will the files/folders disappear into oblivion? Would there be a timed message warning the user that they still have files/folders in the Clipboard?

If Apple could work this out, I would love to see cut in Finder.

[foamy]

If the user "cuts" and forgets to paste, what happens?

I think the best solution to the cut problem is as follows. If a user 'cuts' a file or folder, the originial remains in place until the paste operation is completed. This would be trivial to program and would not only protect against loss of data by 'forgetting' to paste, but also in case you are cutting and pasting a 500MB folder with thousands of items and you say, kick the power cord under your desk.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by KidRed:
<STRONG>Funny you should ask, I have my iceBook next to my G4 and I just went back to it to see if I would notice any slow down, and now instead of the colored ball now I'm getting the old B&W cursor when IE is loading pages and I haven't seen the color ball yet. That's weird huh, that'd I'd see the old one more the the new colored ball? Also, after waking from sleep, my black mouse cursor didn't have it's white outline around t until I moved it around a bit.</STRONG>

I have gotten it before. I believe that the color one is just an image over the old B&W one. So when the CPU is SOOO taxed that it can't even do the new shinny color one we get the old one instead. But this is not new, it has happened ever since PB. Probably even before that...

[conny]

Originally posted by foamy:
<STRONG>

I think the best solution to the cut problem is as follows. If a user 'cuts' a file or folder, the originial remains in place until the paste operation is completed. This would be trivial to program and would not only protect against loss of data by 'forgetting' to paste, but also in case you are cutting and pasting a 500MB folder with thousands of items and you say, kick the power cord under your desk.</STRONG>

That's how it works in Window and that works great. When you have choose the cut command the file "greys" out but not deleted. If the paste is done the file is deleted if you don't paste the file return to normal (non greyed).

[JLL]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>

I have gotten it before. I believe that the color one is just an image over the old B&W one. So when the CPU is SOOO taxed that it can't even do the new shinny color one we get the old one instead. But this is not new, it has happened ever since PB. Probably even before that...</STRONG>

The colored disc appears when am app doesn't respond for over 2 seconds - the b&w one is internal to the specific app.

[mosespatrader]

The way windows works if you do a cut and the don't do a paste, windows does nothing.

If you were to "cut" a file, then "cut" another file, it would ignore the first request.

[KidRed]

To the posts above, "Paste" does keep the contents until you paste in 5g48. I played with it a little (which is how I found out about no cutting) but everytime you get a contextual menu Paste is still there. So you will have to paste it somewhere unless you reboot without pasting-that would be the only way to 'lose' your copies. I still want Spring Loaded folders back. It seems as though Apple is searching for an alternative measure and I'm not sure why as I thought Spring Loaded folders was one of the best features of the OS recently.

[Workers Comp Wampa]

QuickTime also has a new icon in 5G48. It is white opposed to black.

[Cowdog]

Originally posted by KidRed:
<STRONG>...the trash icon changes to a pair of scissors cutting an alias arrow...</STRONG>

Didn't notice the scissors one before, also kinda cool is it changes to that radioactive symbol when you drag a cd to it for burning. I was able to burn a toast img from the new disk copy not just dmg

Also on dock status indicators when the print center comes up it when you print it shows a little number for how many pages you sent, can't rember if that was in 10.0.4

Something that would fit better than cutting and pasting files would be allowing the user to 'Pick Up' and 'Drop'/'Drop Copy of' files. It would basically do the same thing and would go along with the 'Put Away' item in the File menu as well as silence critics of file cut/copy/paste, like me. You want me to shut up, don't you?

[gorgonzola]

Sounding good...

I find it annoying that there's still no quick way to move a file though. You still have to go through the whole rigmarole of moving it to the desktop as a temporary place or making a new Finder window. If they're going with Cut/Copy/Paste then why leave out Cut? I know that I move files way more often than I copy them. They should have all the functionality if they're going to replace spring loaded folders...

Given that Copy/Paste showed up in the early Puma builds and there's still no word on Cut, and given that it's fairly trivial to implement since they've already done Copy and Paste, I think it's likely that we'll be stuck without a fast way of moving files, even in 10.1.

But frankly, I move so few files anyway, and there are so many other good improvements in 10.1, that I forgive them for now. ;-)

[parsec]

Are SCSI burners supported yet?

[KidRed]

If Apple does not bring back spring loaded folders then we at least need Move & Place or a better way than Copy & Paste but no Cut.

[Kristoff]

Image capture quit detecting my Kodak DC-290 which has worked since PB

[jadolfsson]

who knows what they did in 5G48? im sure it'll work just fine when final.

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
<STRONG>I find it annoying that there's still no quick way to move a file though. You still have to go through the whole rigmarole of moving it to the desktop as a temporary place or making a new Finder window. If they're going with Cut/Copy/Paste then why leave out Cut? I know that I move files way more often than I copy them. They should have all the functionality if they're going to replace spring loaded folders...
</STRONG>

I think it's foolish for Apple to give up on innovations in the UI just because it didn't originate from Windows or NeXT, but there you go. Welcome to ApPLE.

The main problem with copy/cut/paste is they offer no visual cue to what you are doing. If they insist on doing this then they should implement a way to show the user that there are file(s) which are waiting to be pasted. A shelf, an icon in the dock, a talking paperclip, whatever.

<STRONG>

But frankly, I move so few files anyway, and there are so many other good improvements in 10.1, that I forgive them for now. ;-)</STRONG>

I agree that 10.1 is nice, I haven't used 10.0.4 since I first glommed onto 5G24, but that's no excuse for lame UI or behavior. It's almost like they abandon good pre-NeXT solutions out of spite, rather than for any good reason. Maybe if all of the major developers had taken up the Cocoa banner rather than almost universally shunning it they wouldn't be so bitter.

And though thankfully the awful spinning colorwheel of doom is much less active in the new version, it still sticks out like a sore thumb. Why is this the only aspect of the UI which hasn't been subjected to aquafication?

[Judge_Fire]

I like the idea of 'Picking Up' things, then 'Dropping' them.

It'd be fun to have the icon, or it's translucent ghost following your cursor as a reminder of the picked up item. Pick up more items, create a train of icons

Challenges created by this approach are many, for example 'how do I discard the current thing and pick up a new one?' or 'how can I choose whether to copy or move?' (Dialog boxes could appear, but it feels clunky)

Still, this approach would have visual feedback, it'd be fun for newbies (and me) and a semi- justified way to get back some of the funkyness of the OS 9 extension Gravité.

J

[memento]

parsec, SCSI burner support would be a blessing. I have one and really hate booting into 9.2 JUST to burn. I don't have high hopes, though.

[Workers Comp Wampa]

Originally posted by memento:
<STRONG>parsec, SCSI burner support would be a blessing. I have one and really hate booting into 9.2 JUST to burn. I don't have high hopes, though.</STRONG>

You better start saving for that FireWire burner then.

Challenges created by this approach are many, for example 'how do I discard the current thing and pick up a new one?' or 'how can I choose whether to copy or move?' (Dialog boxes could appear, but it feels clunky)

Let's see now...

In any solution, picking up would work similar to the Windows file Cut command:

- Greying the icon when something is picked up.
- Moving the file(s) when dropped.
- Either: a) 'Forgetting' something that hasn't been dropped when something new is picked up.
b)Disabling Pick Up when there is already something picked up
c)Letting the user pick things up from multiple locations before dropping them.

I like a) and c); b) is neither familiar nor empowering.


There would be three major menu/toolbar items in the solutions:

Pick Up
Put Back
Drop


To pick up copies/aliases, the user could either:

- Create an alias or a copy, pick it up, and drop it.
- Add modifier keys to menu/toolbar items and get:

Pick Up Copy (or Pick Up Alias)
Put Back
Drop

Pick Up
Put Back
Drop Copy (or Drop Alias)


Very stupid mouse shortcuts would be:

Pick Up: triple click-hold on a selection
Drop: triple click on/in a folder/drive


Solution 1:

Following the principles above, files would trail the cursor as you suggest.


Solution 2:

Items would 'fly' into a drawer/column/box that appears when something is picked up (or whenever the user chooses to show it). Individual items could be dragged in and out of the drawer or column, making it more intuitive to create copies/aliases if the user already knows the regular modifiers to do so. If something is selected in the drawer/column/box, items can be dropped individually. When the user chooses Drop with the drawer/column/box out of focus, all items within move to wherever they are dropped and the drawer/column/box disappears. Put Away could be used on files in the drawer/column/box instead of adding a Put Back menu item. This solution is the most flexible, but also has great potential to become a mess if it's not done well.


Solution 3:

Upon Pick Up, items would 'fly' into the Pick Up icon in the toolbar, and the icon group would reflect that it contained items (by showing hands with files and folders in their grip, for instance). When the items are dropped or put back, the icon group would reflect that it no longer contains items (empty hands).


I think #3 could be thrown into 10.1 more easily than the other ones; that is, if any of them could be.

[max4ever]

This talk about 10.1 has me (as everyone else) extremely excited, but I'm wondering if any Cinema or TiBook users can answer this question. Does this version of iTunes (they bumped it to 1.2, right?) support a wide-screen visualizer? I hate the black bars! Thanks.

the Fork has the right idea about moving files -

Instead of using the finder toolbar, I'd suggest a sheet from the menubar. Grab file, move to top, sheet slides out holds it (along with however many others) until you drop it wherever. you can use the pick up/putaway commands and it'll move to the sheet automatically - a visual represenation of what's being moved. It's a shelf that fits in with the rest of Aqua.

Originally posted by &lt;me&gt;:
<STRONG>the Fork has the right idea about moving files -

Instead of using the finder toolbar, I'd suggest a sheet from the menubar. Grab file, move to top, sheet slides out holds it (along with however many others) until you drop it wherever. you can use the pick up/putaway commands and it'll move to the sheet automatically - a visual represenation of what's being moved. It's a shelf that fits in with the rest of Aqua.</STRONG>

The problem with dropping a group of files somewhere other than their final destination is that it ends up being messy. You could get around this with that "piles" idea that someone (Tog?) came up with (which was basically you represent the group of files with a different icon, sort of like a pile of papers or something). It'd be relatively easy to represent a "pile" with a folder, Apple does the same thing with folders (er, *bundles*, yeah, that's it).

This is one of the few instances where a window drawer would be useful, as much as I hate to admit it (the finder toolbar would be the most convenient, but I can see where that could be problematic).

If they did do something like this, it would be easy enough to let people manipulate the files individually - it's really just a folder after all - and you should be able to add to it by dropping a file onto that icon, or open it up and remove stuff (maybe "put away" so it'd return to it's old location?).

I understand the benifits of being able to cut files in the finder, but there is a useful alternative that already exists in 10.0.4.
take the folder you want "cut" your file to, and drag it into the toolbar in the finder, then go to the file and drag it into the folder in the toolbar. Your file has now been moved into the appropriate folder, and if you do not fell that you will cut files to that folder that often, then simply drag it out of the toolbar. This method also elimiantes the possibility of losing files.

Just a thought

cheers

[Tarabella]

Wouldn't all of these file management improvements for the Finder be solved with the addition of spring loaded folders?

Yes, but spring-loaded folders as they were ended up being a bit of a pain, since sometimes an incorrect positioning of the mouse would cause the entire folder hierarchy to collapse and you'd have to do things all over again. It's obvious that Mac users have asked for file copy/paste, perhaps due to that above-mentioned annoyance.

Acting upon their users' wishes, but understanding that file copy/paste is a flawed concept, Apple's allegedly qualified interface designers should have modified the idea (I - a lazy and aimless second year university student with a half-credit in Psychology - came up with my idea in a matter of seconds); or at least revisited what they had done before. Instead they seem to be in favour of directly yet incompletely ripping a broken and silly feature from Microsoft.

The ultimate reason for exploring alternatives is that Apple has had the code and a method for spring-loaded folders but refuses to do anything with them. If they really must have a copy/paste-type facility, the least I can do for myself and other concerned Mac users is suggest concepts with less potential for ill effects.

Originally posted by &lt;Mac The Fork&gt;:
<STRONG>Yes, but spring-loaded folders as they were ended up being a bit of a pain, since sometimes an incorrect positioning of the mouse would cause the entire folder hierarchy to collapse and you'd have to do things all over again.</STRONG>

I agree, but the action worked pretty well for say just going down one level of folder heirarchy.

It'd be nice to have both copy/paste and the "Greatest-new-feature-of-System-7"

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

I like the idea of Next's dock. As an improvement, anytime you begin to move files a sheet could drop from the toolbar and you put your files in it. Then navigate to destination, and drag the files. Multiple folders/files could be represented by a different icon.

I don't understand why Apple doesn't do this...the coding from Next is laying around doing nothing useful. And of course Apple could make it an option that could be disabled, or is off by default. That way dumb newbies wouldn't get scared by it.