[TETENAL]

Should Apple change the Finder icon to something meaningful for Tiger? Like a magnifying glass icon for example which generally is interpreted as a symbol for search (and the Finder is a tool to find stuff in a search).

[poocat]

To a magnifying glass? Which is supposed to be more relevant? When was the last time you used a magnifying glass to find something? If you're serious, which i can't help but be afraid that you are, i wonder why our ideas of "what is appropriate" are tied to horrible '90s conventions. Why don't we actually consider that as a base state for the entire os, a happy face is pretty good. Or it could be a... wait. Virtual metaphor territory is dangerous to mess with...

Besides, we already have the tiger spotlight icon... and that's not the finder, and we have sherlock... and that's not the finder...

poocat.

[TETENAL]

I never used a magnifying glass for searching. But Holmes did in the books I read. They are everywhere as a symbol for searching. Google search field, Address Book, iTunes etc.

I didn't necessarily mean a magnifying glass though. That was just an example for an icon that conveys meaning opposed to an abstract one like the current Finder smiley face. It could be anything that conveys something like "file browser" or "operating system" or so. That of course would be up to an intelligent designer to find.

And if something something is horribly 90's it's the Finder smiley face. I liked it at the time, but I think I think its time is over.

[monkeybrain]

I'm sure there would be uproar if Apple changed that smiley-faced guy. It's also used on packaging as well to identify Mac, and has for as long as I can remember.

It surely doesn't confuse new users, once they've been told that clicking on the smiley-faced guy opens the Finder it's pretty easy to remember that.

More importantly it gives the Mac character. It's certainly more appealing than a 'My Computer icon'. Actually I changed mine to a magnifying glass once, that lasted about 2 days, it just wasn't right.


BTW Tetenal, the apostrophe goes before the 9 in '90s, not after the s, sorry to be pedantic.

[KP*]

I've never liked the smiley face. I'm sure Apple has more clever people than me to come up with a replacement, so I won't suggest anything specific. But in addition to the "search" type things like magnifying glasses, I think of the Finder as a place where the folders can be accessed. Sort of like a filing cabinet, but I don't know if that should be taken literally as an icon.

If nothing else I think they need to make the current icon look better. I use a replacement icon for it that I like, but whenever I see the original icon it looks really old and unattractive compared to the other aqua icons.

[Millennium]

To be honest, I was less than pleased when they changed the boot-up screen from the Happy Mac to the grey Apple logo. I'd be similarly unhappy here.

[poocat]

Seriously, compared to the way they ruined the System Preferences icon in Panther, I think the Finder icon is way lower on the list of things that needs "fixing". And truthfully, I would like of like to see all of aqua redone, just slightly, to make it feel... new? That, I bet, they will do. Whether we'll like it or not, that's the question. I just had a friend upgrade from os9 and tell me "Everything's wrong!" so I know it's hard to please everyone.

Especially mac everyone.

poocat.

[xi_hyperon]

Don't care, as long as it works better.

[JMII]

Originally posted by Millennium:
To be honest, I was less than pleased when they changed the boot-up screen from the Happy Mac to the grey Apple logo. I'd be similarly unhappy here.

Me too! However since there is far less rebooting to do in OSX I'm slowly getting over it. While we are on the subject... I'm not a big fan of the spinning gear thing-y either... I like the good old progress bar.

[MindFad]

The smiley face should stay. The ugly lighting on the icon should go. I wish they would've left it like it was in Jaguar.

[monkeybrain]

Yeah the Jaguar Finder icon was much better. In fact that's the one I use in Panther. I've never seen a Finder icon that looks better than the Jaguar one.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

It should stay. Its part of Mac OS history!

I really like the new Apple-logo when you boot your computer, but I do kinda miss the old macintosh symbol.... *Sigh* They should have it SOMEWHERE...

[cenutrio]

Originally posted by Millennium:
To be honest, I was less than pleased when they changed the boot-up screen from the Happy Mac to the grey Apple logo. I'd be similarly unhappy here.

I love the finder icon. Other OSs would kill to own such a graphical, pleasant, classic and classy way to start up. It used to relax me a lot when starting up the computer in my early days.... like, Ok here we go and the computer would tell...don't worry, It will be fine (when the finder icon showed up).


Besides the magnifying glass seems to be used for spotlight, I think.


You should not give up on your roots.

[megasad]

Originally posted by KP*:
...I think of the Finder as a place where the folders can be accessed. Sort of like a filing cabinet, but I don't know if that should be taken literally as an icon...

I did some fooling around in Photoshop, made a couple of icons, I hope you all like what I've come up with...



Moo hoo ha ha.

[cpac]

Don't care.

Like the history of the smiley face, but it doesn't really convey anything about the icon's purpose (and since your hard drives are no longer necessarily on the desktop, it matters somewhat). Hell, even the Finder's name is wrong now in light of Spotlight...

Any replacement icon would need to be like the ugly windows file box above, but properly updated into a photo-realistic file drawer as the finder remains the means of accessing the File System.

---Tangent---
if they re-name the Finder (I know it wont happen), what would be an appropriate name, given Spotlight's new role?

"File System"?

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by cpac:
if they re-name the Finder (I know it wont happen), what would be an appropriate name, given Spotlight's new role?

I think Spotlight should be part of Finder. That seems only logical to me.

[cpac]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
I think Spotlight should be part of Finder. That seems only logical to me.

Well the thing is, it's more than just the finder - you can't look up individual emails or individual appointments in the Finder, but you can find them using Spotlight.

My own thought is that for a lot of people, Spotlight will completely replace the finder (these are the people that just dump everything into the Documents folder, (or worse, their desktop), and rely on searching, or a "recent items" menu in an app,to really find what they're looking for.

I think this major a paradigm shift might warrant a change in Finder name (hell, "Finder" *would* be a better name for Spotlight - leaving "File System" "File Cabinet" or "File Drawer" or something similar for what we currently call the Finder.)

[poocat]

Ok. Want to take a break for a second and ask you all this:

Why does it have to have a name indicative of function? Start menu?
Finder? File system? Ug.

Safari. Ah, a product that was named.
Firefox. Likewise (though it took some trying...)

Why do you want a file icon on your desktop? I thought the point of icons was to make pretty, as is the point of naming things... we could just call it computer. But we don't, we call it "my mac" or "the powerbook" or "julie" or whatever. Why are we looking at this from such a windows/unix functional-and-blank-or-death side? Why not just have it be neat to look at and work well?

Do you have a SUV named "gas guzzler"?

I want an electric car named "bug".

poocat.

[cpac]

The name doesn't have to be indicative of function, but it shouldn't indicate a function that is (essentially) not what it does.

The "Finder" was appropriately named originally, because it was how you found your files. After spotlight, it likely will not be how you find your files, and thus it's name as the "Finder" is misleading.

Even your example of "Safari" evokes the application's function - exploring the web (and in a much more exciting way than just "Explorer"

Firefox, you are right, is non-sensical, but "Netscape" and "Navigator" were - iCal, Address Book, Stickies, iChat, TextEdit, Preview, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, iSync - all these things not only have names that evoke what they do, but generally have icons that do as well.

Anyway, yes, icons are great when they are beautiful - but that is far from their only function: Most importantly, an icon is a means of tersely and elegantly conveying information. (imagine the confusion if all icons were simply miniatures of works of art - regardless of whether they were an application, a document, etc.)

The Finder, as of Tiger, will no longer be the primary way to "Find" anything, and it's happy face conveys nothing of its purpose or use --- I just don't think that's an ideal state of affairs.

[poocat]

Yeah, and we all saw the huge outcry when Adobe changed their icons from essentially horribly ugly, square, over-named icons to pretty, but not exactly relevant, icons. I hear you.

But if this works, and you put a file cabinet in place of a happy face in my mac, I'll be deeply disappointed, because a filing cabinet is one of the ugliest things in the history of offices, and I don't need one on my desktop. It is a VERY windows thing to do, the half-open file cabinet with files fluttering out...

Luckily I (mostly) trust apple.

Although the Panther icon was much worse than the Jaguar one...

[Superchicken]

The finder is still how I find my data. And the face had better stay for a LONG time. The Finder is a basic part of what it means to have a Mac. We have the little Mac face... nobody is sure what it means but dang if we wouldn't miss it.

That said if they made a way for the OS to know what kind of Mac you had, it wouldn't be bad to have a dynamic photo realistic icon of what your computer should look like. IE have a photo of a PowerMac, or an iBook, iMac etc. Now that would be innovative.

[monkeybrain]

Well some are saying that Spotlight is going to replace the Finder, or in-other-words that the Finder won't be used for finding things anymore, only organising.

I find this a bit hard to believe really. True, many people will use Spotlight to find stuff and the method of doing this by typing a partial file name or file type etc will increase. But I think many people will still use the Finder in the 'old fashioned' way.

Also, Spotlight and the Finder are complimentary, i.e. Smart Folders will take advantage of spotlight functionality - in this way the Finder is actually more than ever going to be used to find things better. In fact, I might argue that the name Finder is now more relevant than ever. Previously the Finder would be better termed 'Organiser', but with Smart Folders it is searching. Thus Spotlight and Finder are complitmentary names.

[- - e r i k - -]

Isn't Finder a much more appropriate name for Spotlight anyway?

Finder = Organiser
Spotlight = Finder

Just kidding of course, the Finder name should stay as well as the icon. Just change the apperance of it, I don't understand why they changed it in Panther.

[MPMoriarty]

What's the big deal with how the Finder icon changed in Panther. It doesn't look that different.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by MPMoriarty:
What's the big deal with how the Finder icon changed in Panther. It doesn't look that different.

Yes it does.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by MPMoriarty:
What's the big deal with how the Finder icon changed in Panther. It doesn't look that different.

its totally different.

[himself]

The Jaguar icon was (is) much more attractive. Bring it back.

There is no reason for the Finder icon to go anywhere, as far as I am concerned. However, if it were to be 'modified,' i would suggest a compromise - replace it with the Happy Mac.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Should Apple change the Finder icon to something meaningful for Tiger? Like a magnifying glass icon for example which generally is interpreted as a symbol for search (and the Finder is a tool to find stuff in a search).

Magnifying glass = Zoom tool.

[joltguy]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
its totally different.

Indeed:


I also hope they keep the smiley face around. In addition to its historical value, I think it adds a bit of friendliness and whimsy to the Mac. A welcome change from the drudgery of other OSes.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by joltguy:
I also hope they keep the smiley face around. In addition to its historical value, I think it adds a bit of friendliness and whimsy to the Mac. A welcome change from the drudgery of other OSes.

I can't believe you said "whimsy".

Are you an English teacher?

[poocat]

Wow.
Thanks for the two images. I knew how i felt about them, but hadn't looked at them side by side in a long time. The Panther one is worse in every single respect. Who did that?!

[Samanoske]

as long one can change it to what one wants ... everythin is cool ...

[joltguy]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
I can't believe you said "whimsy".

Are you an English teacher?

Heheh, no , but I've always loved that word. It isn't used nearly often enough. Maybe we can make it the new "snappy"!

[cpac]

Originally posted by joltguy:
Maybe we can make it the new "snappy"!

like:

"ooo, iPhoto 5, I've found it to be much more whimisical than previous versions."

"not me - iPhoto 4 had lots of whimsy on my flower-power iMac"

"oh well sure, but if you run it on more modern hardware you'll notice the difference - definitely more whimsy in this version."

[milhous]

i wouldn't mind seeing just an upper-cased italicized blue 'F' for the finder icon. haha!

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Eh, I never looked at the icon enough to even notice a difference. Keep the face.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
Keep the face.

Well, the poll shows that more than 40% of the users wouldn't mind a change. The graphics is old and outdated. It needs a complete change.

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Well, the poll shows that more than 40% of the users wouldn't mind a change. The graphics is old and outdated. It needs a complete change.

You must be reading a different poll than I

[monkeybrain]

Does anyone have a copy of that Jaguar Finder icon I could have? I'm changing it on a new Mac here and I can't get to my old copy.

Thanks

[Zadian]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Well, the poll shows that more than 40% of the users wouldn't mind a change. The graphics is old and outdated. It needs a complete change.

I think the Finder icon should stay the way it is. Just because it is old doesn't mean it should change. The main use for an icon is to be easily identified and recognised. An icon is best recognised if it stays (almost) the same over the time.

There are many icons out there, that use metaphors that are outdated - like the floppy disc icon for saving - but the users got used to that icons and would be (at first) irritated by a new icon.

[ajprice]

I wouldn't have minded if they just made the icon more glossy for the Panther Finder icon, but they changed the face slightly, and it doesn't look right. The left had side is supposed to be blue lines to make the face, and the eyes are taller on thew Panther one. These are little things, but they wreck it.

Oh and a magnifying glass as an icon is confusing, does it mean Search or Magnify?

Just get the Jaguar face on the glossy Panther icon, and that would be sweet!

[megasad]

Originally posted by monkeybrain:
Does anyone have a copy of that Jaguar Finder icon I could have? I'm changing it on a new Mac here and I can't get to my old copy.

Thanks

Here you go.

[monkeybrain]

Originally posted by megasad:
Here you go.

Cheers megasad, much better

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Should Apple change the Finder icon to something meaningful for Tiger?

I think that if OS X fails (again) to deliver a true Mac Finder in Tiger, what it should change it's not only the icon but also the name. Calling �Finder� to this thing is silly.

[mAxximo]

(Won't let me delete this one...)

[BuonRotto]

Actually, if I were to be objective about it, ignoring the nostalgia and/or dogma in here, the icon and the name, "Finder" don't seem to describe the app appropriately. It's more of a file library or, I suppose, a browser (though in a broader sense than what most people would probably imagine, i.e., a web browser) while Spotlight is more of a card catalog or librarian. They do interact, obviously, but they're complementary approaches.

I probably prefer keeping the system-wide Spotlight tool separate from the Finder, and could see making the spatial Finder Maxximo's referring to as another app too. I think as long as they are all connected behind the scenes and reflect one another in real time, the idea that people can pick their preferred means of managing their files -- without dealing with the potential burden or confusion of some swiss-army knife uber-app for this purpose -- would be a welcome idea.

I think we've sort of settled on the assumption that one app should do all this. Might be a good idea to question this assumption a bit. The one-stop shop approach to the Finder (and Spotlight) is like using a chef's knife to prepare food, open boxes and cut the lawn. After all, aren't computers supposed to conform to our needs and not the other way around? Why limit the system to one approach or burden the user with many approaches at the same time when they only want to deal with one most of the time? A more contextual approach is maybe what is needed.

[mAxximo]

Apple, just give me the spatial Mac Finder and keep the rest.
If after getting that right you still have time to develop a thousand different approaches for the people who like browsing or typing their file names instead, FINE.

But get the Finder right first. It's about freaking time.

[tavilach]

I really hate the current icon...it doesn't seem to fit.

I wouldn't want to get rid of Apple's history, though. The face should simply be beautified...it's as simple as that.

[spauldingg]

Originally posted by joltguy:
Indeed:


I also hope they keep the smiley face around. In addition to its historical value, I think it adds a bit of friendliness and whimsy to the Mac. A welcome change from the drudgery of other OSes.

The icon is a computer screen (left side) and a human (right side) happily coexisting, the perfect image of the machine/man interface. I hope it never changes. Bad enough about the happy Mac at startup, not to mention poor Clarus the Dogcow. (R.I.P.)