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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac OS X > "The True Cost of Mac OS X"...thoughts?

"The True Cost of Mac OS X"...thoughts?
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:37 AM
 
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:44 AM
 
some valid points - esp. w/r/t quicktime pro (at least the full-screen, and save-from-web features should be available to non-pro users).

However, he seems to assume that nowhere in the whole process is he figuring in getting new hardware, in which case both the system and iLife '04 come free.

Also, .Mac is FAR from necessary (though I do enjoy it), and if he's going to consider it a cost, he ought to throw in all the free software that comes along with a .Mac subscription
cpac
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:46 AM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
However, he seems to assume that nowhere in the whole process is he figuring in getting new hardware, in which case both the system and iLife '04 come free.

Also, .Mac is FAR from necessary (though I do enjoy it), and if he's going to consider it a cost, he ought to throw in all the free software that comes along with a .Mac subscription
I totally agree, good points.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:33 PM
 
His points about Quicktime are valid, I've said them myself before, especially when you compare it feature wise to Media Player on Windows.

.Mac is by no means necessary, I've never had the urge to get it, I can use free services for my needs.

What I'm confused about is his points on iPhoto (and I assume iMovie too, but I've never used that so don't know myself). I have the latest iPhoto, version 4.something. I didn't buy iLife, I don't even know what version of iPhoto came with my 10.3 disk, but whatever it was Apple has let me upgrade iPhoto via Software Update. Is this just me? Could he have got this point so wrong?
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:39 PM
 
it is just you.

iPhoto 4 (from 2, they skipped 3) was a paid upgrade as part of iLife '04.

It's not on the Panther disks, but if you bought your Mac after a certain point, it would have shipped with iLife '04.
cpac
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:41 PM
 
you must purchase Xounds, ShapeShifter, and FontCard.
Nonsense. I never felt the need for any Unsanity products. So there's no additional cost for owning OS X for me.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:47 PM
 
aped and it's children suck.

that's all i know; that's all i care to know.

itunes is free and oft-updated...the rest of ilife doesn't fill my professional needs anyhow....however, i am still always tempted to buy it when i walk by it in the store...plus...it comes with new macs.

the 'noble and fair' thing for unsanity to do is release shapeshifter for free so that they won't have to deal with the constant stability complaints. xounds has never worked properly for me. fontcard? bleh. double-bleh with poop cherries on top.


man, this is so flamey. i'm sorry. it's not like me.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:49 PM
 
Yeah Mac OS X is so expensive, Unsanity should give their software for free to compensate for that ... hmmm or they want the other way? Maybe Apple should give away their software for free so we can buy Unsanity products?

Most Unsanity folks articles are amazing indeed
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 01:34 PM
 
WTF.

Okay, I agree about QuickTime Pro, if only because the "upgrade" pop-ups are annoying. But the rest of it...

First of all, I absolutely hate rants that go way off the deep end such as this:

If you purchase Mac OS X right now, you are given what amounts to a buggy and very slow demo of iMovie and iPhoto.
GMAFB. They may be older versions, but they certainly are not "demos." They are fully functional, and they are actually quite good. I used them, and was perfectly happy with them before iLife '04 came out. I'm sorry, but statements like this, along with people calling OS X (even Panther) a "beta" just reeks of the idiotus whinerus* specimens you often find on VersionTracker.

Okay, since when is .mac necessary in any way, shape, or form? If I already have most of its features through a domain I'm paying for (charlessoft.com), why do I need .mac? If I got these features included with my ISP/university connection/whatever, why do I need .mac? I'm glad that I have a choice not to purchase this if I don't need it!

If Unsanity are so offended by things not being free, why don't they give away their stuff for free?!

*definition: a small land-dwelling mammal known as Idiotus Whinerus. Its natural habitat is on message boards and on VersionTracker. It enjoys attention, and often emits a mating call which happens to sound like the English words "beta quality" but which is actually just a series of grunts intended to attract females.

Idiotus Whinerus is often very aggressive, and in many cases, they compete to see who can scream the loudest. Biologists suspect that this is because females of the species are drawn to the male that is the most annoying.

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Nov 30, 2004, 02:41 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
They may be older versions, but they certainly are not "demos." They are fully functional, and they are actually quite good. I used them, and was perfectly happy with them before iLife '04 came out.
The version of iMovie included with Panther is completely unusable on my iMac 400. Literally. The performance is so bad that it can't import from the camera at a decent framerate. This wasn't the case with the older (Carbon) versions of iMovie, and it sounds like it's no longer the case with the version included in iLife.
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Nov 30, 2004, 04:55 PM
 
Check out the response by Jason Harris (author of ShapeShifter) in the comments section for a dose of well thought-out common sense.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 08:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
The version of iMovie included with Panther is completely unusable on my iMac 400. Literally. The performance is so bad that it can't import from the camera at a decent framerate. This wasn't the case with the older (Carbon) versions of iMovie, and it sounds like it's no longer the case with the version included in iLife.
Hmmm. Seems to work fine on our old iMac DVSE 400. We did get a new hard drive (7200 rpm) and have 1 gig of memory.

Of course, it runs much better on our G5 iMac.

I also don't get the complaining about iPhoto. It is much faster than when it first came out and works great for our needs.

Since Unsanity is so focused on price, I thought this was interesting.

Fruit Menu. Unsanity. $10
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( Last edited by kcmac; Nov 30, 2004 at 09:01 PM. )
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:31 PM
 
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 04:36 AM
 
What a horrible amount of whining. The intro to the article ought to have been more along the lines of "I've been meaning to whine my ass off for a while now...". The "true" cost of OSX is pretty interesting.

1.) MacOS itself is only $129 with no additional (government, educational) discounts. For students and the like it costs far less for an OSX license. A five pack of licenses for a household is a paltry sum as well. Far less than five copies of Windows for a household of five PCs.

2.) The versions of iPhoto and iMovie that ship with Panther are decent but not nearly as good as the iLife '04 versions. However any Mac bought recently will be loaded with iLife '04 and anyone with an older Mac had the chance to get the original iLife suite for free. Only systems bought two and a half to three or more years ago will have no version of the iLife suite bundled with them. Again iLife is eligible for hefty discounts for educational buyers and is currently free after rebates. Complaining about the rebates is just silly consider the rant is about buying Panther with iLife on a system not currently equipped with either.

3.) As the owner of a Quicktime Pro license I'm not sure which way I lean on the QTP issue. I would have loved to have saved $30 on QTP in order to play fullscreen and save from the web. However $30 wasn't too large of a dent in my finances when I bought the license. I think QTP ought to have more features for the price (including an MPEG-2 codec!!) to make it more appealing to more people.

4.) The .Mac argument is entirely inane. While having your own web space through a vhost is much more versatile than having a .Mac account, the .Mac account is far easier for novice users to use effectively. It in no way is required to use OSX effectively either, I went for a long time with no desire for a .Mac account but enjoy it a lot now that I have one. I'm surprised by all of the little extras (VersionTracker Plus account) that aren't heavily advertised but are arguably as useful as .Mac's main selling points.
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 06:34 AM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
"if only because the "upgrade" pop-ups are annoying.
Off topic: Forgot where I read so can't give credit and you may already know... Set the clock forward to the year 2037** >open QT> click update later. Close QT. Set clock back to 2004* > No more update pop up when QT opens for decades to come or until Apple finds a way around this trick.

*Tip only valid for one more month in present form.

Edit: **Set to 2037 max. 2040 is not possible -as Valkraider correctly points out. (I don't knpw why either)
( Last edited by lurkalot; Dec 2, 2004 at 04:21 AM. )
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 11:51 AM
 
While I don't really care one way or another about most of the unsanity author's points, I am also not surprised that so many jump to Apple's defense. Apple zealotry runs deep in these waters.

That said, I think a lot of people on both sides of the fence forget what Apple is: It's a business. It exists to take your fuking money. Full stop. Apple will do as little as they possibly can to take as much of your money as they possibly can, at the same time doing enough to compete with Microsoft so as to stay in business.

In that sense Apple is no different to Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't charge for its home video and photo software or for its media player simply because the competition is big enough in the windows market that Microsoft's products would disappear completely if they did charge for them. If Microsoft didn't face any competition in the home video and photo market, they would probably charge for their products as well. Windows Media Player is only free because Microsoft uses it to further its monopoly. In this sense the unsanity author is absolutely right. Apple is braindead when it comes to QTPro: How many people actually pay for that crap? And how many potential customers on Windows does Apple lose because of that very stiff $30???

As for .Mac, although Apple has recently upped it to 250mb, probably because they were losing customers left, right and center with the crap that .Mac was beforehand, I think it's a nice idea for home users who don't have the expertise to do their own websites, syncing etc, but a power user is probably better off with a flash drive, and the massive popularity of flash drives on windows shows that this is indeed the future in portable storage, not some unreliable website which forces you to pay hefty subscription fees.
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Dec 1, 2004, 03:15 PM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
Apple will do as little as they possibly can to take as much of your money as they possibly can, at the same time doing enough to compete with Microsoft so as to stay in business.
Although I agree with most of what you said in your post, I strongly disagree with the statement above. There are companies that can be described in this manner, but Apple is not one of them. Apple is just oozing with innovation, and the stuff they come out with is way more than "just enough to be better than the other guys". The products they create have an astounding attention to detail that could only come from people who truly love and believe in what they're doing. This is exactly why people (myself included obviously) are so passionate about Apple! For an easy example of what I mean, look at the Powerbooks... absolutely beautiful to look at and packed full of incredible engineering. There's nothing like the Powerbook in the Wintel world.

Sorry for straying so far from the original topic.
     
BZ
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Dec 1, 2004, 04:42 PM
 
Ok... so $300, but what do you get and what would it cost you to replace it?

If I gave a "shareware" price to all of the applications you get with all of these things, let me see what the total is.

.Mac
- $15 Backup
- $15 Virex
- $25 coupons (there are over $100 worth)
- $20 iMap Webmail
- $40 1yr Web services, iDisk 250MB

$115 Subtotal

iLife
- $25 - iPhoto
- $20 - iMovie
- $20 - GarageBand
- $30 - iDVD
- $0 - iTunes

$95 Subtotal

OSX
- $20 - Mail.app
- $10 - iSync
- $10 - iCal
- $10 - Addressbook
- $10 - iChat
- $10 - XCode
- $10 - DVD Player
- $5 - Preview
- $5 - Sherlock 3
- $0 - Safari

$90 Subtotal

$40 - Quicktime Pro

$340 total

So, if you bought all of those apps, at pretty low shareware prices, you would be over $300 and you still have the full OS to talk about.

Could any one developer give you all of that for UNDER $300?

How much is Photoshop?
How much is Office?

BZ
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 07:06 PM
 
Windows XP Pro upgrade costs $189 from Amazon. Mac OS X Panther is only $109 from Amazon for the full version, $179 with both QuckTime Pro and MPEG-2 Playback. So even with QT and MPEG-2 it's $10 cheaper than the upgrade to XP Pro.

If you want to compare to the full version of XP Pro at $279 through Amazon, you'll be saving an entire $100. Then you could buy iLife '04 for $50. You're still good for another $50. I don't know, maybe buy some iPod socks or a couple Jam Packs for GarageBand.

I lost track. What were they whining about again?

OT: I think Windows users are just too used to pirating. $300?! That's an outrage! I'll just borrow my friend's copy.
( Last edited by olePigeon; Dec 1, 2004 at 07:11 PM. )
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Dec 1, 2004, 07:06 PM
 
Originally posted by lurkalot:
Off topic: Forgot where I read so can't give credit and you may already know... Set the clock forward to the year 2040 >open QT> click update later. Close QT. Set clock back to 2004* > No more update pop up when QT opens for decades to come or until Apple finds a way around this trick.

*Tip only valid for one more month in present form.
For what it's worth, the highest year I could use was 2037... I don't know why.
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 07:10 PM
 
Originally posted by BZ:

OSX
- $20 - Mail.app
- $10 - iSync
- $10 - iCal
- $10 - Addressbook
- $10 - iChat
- $10 - XCode
- $10 - DVD Player
- $5 - Preview
- $5 - Sherlock 3
- $0 - Safari


BZ
Xcode and the developer tools are worth at least $50, if not $100. But Apple gives them away because they help people make applications for OSX, which makes OSX more attractive, which makes Apple sell more computers and more copies of OSX. Many of my favorite OSX apps are made with XCode....
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 07:13 PM
 
Originally posted by ValkRaider:
Xcode and the developer tools are worth at least $50, if not $100. But Apple gives them away because they help people make applications for OSX, which makes OSX more attractive, which makes Apple sell more computers and more copies of OSX. Many of my favorite OSX apps are made with XCode....
At least. Borland C++ Personal Edition is $70.
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Dec 1, 2004, 07:32 PM
 
I didn't read the whole thing, but my view was this...

First he made mention of FontCard 1.x being slow but he didn't charge for the FontCard 2.x update...

One point to realize: HE ***DID*** CHARGE FOR FONTCARD 1.X TO BEGIN WITH!!! iPhoto was free prior to iLife '04... AND, if you aren't a registered user of FontCard currently, FontCard 2.x isn't free as of now either...

I also didn't see the fee for iLife '04 as paying for iPhoto & iMovie, but rather paying for GarageBand and getting the other two as a bonus... It can be easily argued GarageBand was worth the entire fee that iLife cost...
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 07:58 PM
 
i have iMovie 4.0.2 and iPhoto 4.0.3 ?
iamwhor3hay
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 08:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Bobby:
One point to realize: HE ***DID*** CHARGE FOR FONTCARD 1.X TO BEGIN WITH!!! iPhoto was free prior to iLife '04... AND, if you aren't a registered user of FontCard currently, FontCard 2.x isn't free as of now either...
Boo hoo. iPhoto costs money to develop. Maybe they had reached the point where they would not be able to continue putting the same amount of development effort into it without charging for the app. iPhoto 2.0 works fine, if a bit slow, and for all you get with the iLife suite, $30 edu (and face it, most people whining in here probably qualify for the edu disconut) isn't that bad.

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Dec 1, 2004, 09:05 PM
 
They should have included the cost of FruitMenu in their analysis to get your OS9-style apple menu back which also has a nice side effect of introducing some software conflicts to destabilize your OS X - for those with OS 9 nostalgia

J-23
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 10:10 PM
 
Look, a lot of his points are really silly (.mac and the like) and his grammar and spelling are utterly atrocious, but the crux of what he says is not a mile off.

I have been hearing for years that MS is so much worse than Apple with it's OS fees, and while XP did cost from $99-$199, bear in mind that it came out (I believe) 2-3 years ago, and will not be replaced for another 2 years. Thus MS users have gotten roughly 5 years of OS and free upgrades (yes, yes, I know that they NEED them lol) for between $99-$199.

In that same time, I will have shelled out more than $500 to stay current with Apple's software offerings. I understand that I do not need to, but let's be honest; nobody wants to feel that they are using an "old hat" OS.

I would feel a lot better if once you 'bought in' to the full price OS from Apple (i.e pay your $129, not for mac preloads), the yearly updates were $69.00. It also strikes me that .mac and ilife (while again, not requiring each other) are certainly complimentary, and by the looks of tiger, that will only increase. I think that $99 is a fair price for both ilife and .mac combined into one package.

Anyway, all I am saying is that $500 in SW to keep my $3000 Powerbook current does seem like rather a lot, and is without doubt much more than it would have cost me to keep a ThinkPad current.


     
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Dec 1, 2004, 10:34 PM
 
Originally posted by maninmac:
his grammar and spelling are utterly atrocious
For flailing out loud, not all people are native English speakers!

Clues can usually be found in their names...

How many languages do you speak?
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Dec 1, 2004, 10:56 PM
 
Um, 4, and yourself?
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 11:00 PM
 
Originally posted by maninmac:
Um, 4, and yourself?
Two.

And I assume your grammar and spelling are perfect in all your foreign tongues?
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Dec 1, 2004, 11:05 PM
 
Well, if not they are pretty darn close.

Look, I am not going to get into some semantic argument with you, suffice it to say that his spelling and grammar were atrocious; whether English is his first language or not is utterly irrelevant...they aren't subjective.

That said, what about the cost of that OS X huh?
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 11:30 PM
 
Atrocious eh?

Apart from two made-up words (ridicularity, irregardless) I find no spelling mistakes (slang excluded) that aren't attributable to confusion between localisations of the English language, which must be confusing for a foreign person to grasp, IE. 'rumor', 'synchronizing'. Either way, I'd say it was 'pretty darn close'.

Hardly grounds for being labelled 'utterly atrocious' - I've seen much worse from so-called native english speakers in these forums. Trust me, I'm usually the first spelling nazi to jump on people's errors, but let's try and cut the foreign guys a little slack, huh?

And please don't lecture me on subjectivity - it was you who opened a post about the cost of OSX with a critique of the author's language abilities.

For what it's worth, I agree with you on the cost of OSX. Some kind of upgrade path would be a nice way of rewarding loyal users who regularly update their systems.


Edit: Welcome to the forums!
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Dec 1, 2004, 11:44 PM
 
I reading this thread I'm just amazed that so many people want things for free. Lets just take iLife on it's own. Is there anything out there that even comes close to comparing to iDVD for ease of use. Just look at the pro level features included in it and the masses of themes in the box. How much would you pay for iDVD if it was it's own product? I think $50 would be a real bargain. It would be very successful at $100 a copy.

Look at iMovie. Not only is it a great program with a terrific feature set but it threw Premiere out of the market (Premiere was not competition for FCP, it just was never in the same league). Before it was free, how much did video enthusiasts spend on editing software? Even for the most basic stuff, >$100. iMovie for $50 would fly off the shelves.

Garageband. Holy cow! If Apple sold it for $100 they wouldn't be able to print DVD's fast enough to keep in stock. It's a truly amazing product considering it's price.

$25 an app. Don't tell me that these aren't shareware prices. Where have you seen a shareware app that is built like iDVD or Garageband? Where have you seen shareware apps that come with such a huge library of art to use out of the box? What has happened to America? Have we past the point of no return or can we still fix this country?

If you don't like what Apple is doing, you have XCode, you have Amazon/Barnes and Noble to get reference books. Learn Objective-C and Cocoa and write your own stinking app. Nobody made a program on the Mac that did what I need so that's exactly what I did and made my own program which I sell for $20 a copy. Considering that it's competition on the PC is well over $200 (no competition on the Mac) but has more features, I think that's reasonable.

If you see so many problems with what Apple is doing with it's software and you think it can be done better, then compete with them. They even give you the tools to do it with (and you even complain about that). Surely you can make products up to the same standard as the iLife suite and sell them for less. Surely you can make at least one and undercut Apple by selling it for $20. You'll make your cost of development at that price, won't you?
     
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Dec 1, 2004, 11:45 PM
 
It seems that I have this irrational need to appropriate the last word; I somehow doubt that you will afford me that.

Look, I never knew the bloody guy was a foreigner alright!

I too have seen significantly worse all be they usually from New Jersey- somehow I just tend to expect better from someone who didnt go to school in the U.S!


Now, can we please be friends again...um, unless you happen to be from Jersey!

( Last edited by maninmac; Dec 1, 2004 at 11:50 PM. )
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 04:08 AM
 
You'd think some nit who can speak 4 languages with flawless grammar wouldn't make such amateurish errors.
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 04:23 AM
 
Seriously, what spelling or grammar mistakes did I make? Take into consideration that there are quite a few made up words.
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 04:46 AM
 
The 'True' cost of OSX to me is the price of the OS itself. I have no need for the iLife apps, .Mac, QT Pro or anything from Unsanity.

Perhaps the author should also take people like myself into account...
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 04:56 AM
 
Originally posted by sheer:
The 'True' cost of OSX to me is the price of the OS itself. I have no need for the iLife apps, .Mac, QT Pro or anything from Unsanity.

Perhaps the author should also take people like myself into account...
And yet again, the only thing I am stating (except for the QT Pro portion) is that Apple is advertising features that come with OS X that do *not* come with OS X or, in the case of iLife, shipping horribly crippled versions of software that Apple knows users are not happy with (one of their kbase articles for iPhoto actually had text complaining about how slow iPhoto was) I'm not saying you have to buy them because you have to want them. I am saying that if you thought you got these things for free with OS X (as Apple repeatedly implies) then you are sorely mistaken.
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 06:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Rosyna:
And yet again, the only thing I am stating (except for the QT Pro portion) is that Apple is advertising features that come with OS X that do *not* come with OS X or, in the case of iLife, shipping horribly crippled versions of software that Apple knows users are not happy with (one of their kbase articles for iPhoto actually had text complaining about how slow iPhoto was) I'm not saying you have to buy them because you have to want them. I am saying that if you thought you got these things for free with OS X (as Apple repeatedly implies) then you are sorely mistaken.
Oh please! Windows ALSO comes loaded with software that is all demoware, some not even that! To operate the computer all anyone needs is the OS. Now if you are saying Apple advertises what can be done with OS X, so does Windows! Deceptive? Confusing? Sure, I will give you that. Can easily be lead to think something might be included for free when it isn't. My big problem is with Windows which does imply you can do lot but only if you buy the right version (i.e. home or pro). This is exactly why the author said you should just buy Pro - because if you think you can buy any version of windows and do what you see on TV, you are grossly mistaken.

I work at a university where I tell at least 4 students a semester their PC can't hook in to the network because it is a home version. Of course, I tell them "can't" is a harsh word, just that the unversity tech people say you can do a home version - they just don't support doing it. They recommend upgrading to pro. Hmmm, wonder what really costs more now?
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 07:47 AM
 
Originally posted by macnews:
Oh please! Windows ALSO comes loaded with software that is all demoware, some not even that! To operate the computer all anyone needs is the OS. Now if you are saying Apple advertises what can be done with OS X, so does Windows! Deceptive? Confusing? Sure, I will give you that. Can easily be lead to think something might be included for free when it isn't. My big problem is with Windows which does imply you can do lot but only if you buy the right version (i.e. home or pro). This is exactly why the author said you should just buy Pro - because if you think you can buy any version of windows and do what you see on TV, you are grossly mistaken.

I work at a university where I tell at least 4 students a semester their PC can't hook in to the network because it is a home version. Of course, I tell them "can't" is a harsh word, just that the unversity tech people say you can do a home version - they just don't support doing it. They recommend upgrading to pro. Hmmm, wonder what really costs more now?
But does MS advertise you can do this with XP Home in any ad? Can you show me one in which it does? Or even an MS created webpage that says (implicitly or explicitly) as such?
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 08:30 AM
 
Originally posted by Rosyna:
But does MS advertise you can do this with XP Home in any ad?
Microsoft advertises that you can fly with Windows XP. Nowhere do they tell you that this requires an additional flight ticket or trampoline not included.
But does MS advertise you can do this with XP Home in any ad?
I don't think Apple even advertises OS X much. When they advertise, they advertise their computers. And they advertise that iLife is bundled with their computers not with their operating system.
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 11:18 AM
 
Originally posted by maninmac:
LIn that same time, I will have shelled out more than $500 to stay current with Apple's software offerings.
Anyway, all I am saying is that $500 in SW to keep my $3000 Powerbook current does seem like rather a lot, and is without doubt much more than it would have cost me to keep a ThinkPad current.


Please break down how yo spent more than $500 to keep your Powerbook current.

10.1 was free (I think)
10.2 was $129 but could be had for $85 (what I paid online)
10.3 was $129 but could be had for $100 (what I paid online)
iLife 04 was $50

So, 85+100+50 = $235.

.mac is not needed to keep your Powerbook current.
MacBook Pro
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Dec 2, 2004, 12:50 PM
 
What he also does not factor in is the Family license.

10.3 Family = $199 on 5 computers
XP Pro = 5 X $150 (or whatever) on 5 computers

BZ
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 01:04 PM
 
Originally posted by maninmac:
I have been hearing for years that MS is so much worse than Apple with it's OS fees, and while XP did cost from $99-$199, bear in mind that it came out (I believe) 2-3 years ago, and will not be replaced for another 2 years. Thus MS users have gotten roughly 5 years of OS and free upgrades (yes, yes, I know that they NEED them lol) for between $99-$199.

In that same time, I will have shelled out more than $500 to stay current with Apple's software offerings. I understand that I do not need to, but let's be honest; nobody wants to feel that they are using an "old hat" OS.
First of all, all of Apple's OS updates are free. You only pay for a new version of the OS. The difference between 10.2 and 10.3 in features alone (especially in speed!) is like the difference between 98 and XP; and the difference between 10.3 and 10.4 will be like moving from XP to Longhorn... well, eventually.

Why do people think it's a bad thing for Apple to release a brand new OS once a year packed with cool stuff? They've practically surpassed Microsoft in every aspect of their OS, and now they'll officially take the crown with 10.4 in regards to being a "modern" OS.

Now Apple is the bad guy because Microsoft can't update their OS in 3 years.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 01:46 PM
 
Originally posted by olePigeon:
Why do people think it's a bad thing for Apple to release a brand new OS once a year packed with cool stuff? They've practically surpassed Microsoft in every aspect of their OS, and now they'll officially take the crown with 10.4 in regards to being a "modern" OS.
And more importantly, Apple has said that this frantic pace of updates is going to slow down considerably post-Tiger.

The once-a-year thing was mostly just due to the young age of OS X, and now that it's relatively mature and complete, Apple won't be coming out with a new release every year.
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Dec 2, 2004, 02:05 PM
 
OS X does everything Apple is claiming on their web pages. Just because you don't like the versions of the software that are included with a stock OS X installation doesn't mean they are lying, misleading, or nickel and diming you.

I used iMovie 3 successfully
I used iPhoto 2 successfully

Jeez, the only people who are whining more than you are the Canadians over the iTunes store (guess what? Every piece of American music isn't there either!).

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Dec 2, 2004, 02:25 PM
 
Originally posted by siMac:
Apart from two made-up words (ridicularity, irregardless)
irregardless is not so much a "made-up word" as it is a highly redundant word. But in reality, *all* words are "made-up words". Thats how we got them. The only difference is that some are newer than others... Here is a good analisys of irregardless, and how it came to be, and why there is a precident that it should be allowed.
     
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Dec 2, 2004, 07:01 PM
 
Originally posted by ValkRaider:
irregardless is not so much a "made-up word" as it is a highly redundant word.
Sure, except that rather than being redundant, it's meaning is almost opposite of how it is usually meant.

regardless = without regard
irregardless = not without regard = with regard, i.e. "regardful" or just "regarding"

That's why most people cringe at its use...
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Dec 2, 2004, 07:40 PM
 
Y use quicktime when there's VLC free and it actualy works
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Dec 2, 2004, 08:20 PM
 
Originally posted by ValkRaider:
Here is a good analisys of irregardless, and how it came to be, and why there is a precident that it should be allowed.
Spelling Nazi Duties:

'Analysis', 'Precedent'

You were warned.
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