[malique]

Hey folks,

as I've heard Win 2k was better to run on VPC on a G4 because there was sum 32bit emulation or 16 or ican'tremember that was easier to handle for the Mac so the whole thing was snappier™.

M$ brings the new VPC with XP, of course, »this is how we do it« they say.

But — anyone tried both and can tell me any difference (speedwise) on the G5?

Which one should I buy?

[yukon]

Win2k is faster as an OS. VPC is most certainly optimized for XP, as running a server under emulation is a last ditch kind of thing, people would be running the desktop version. In my experiance, when VPC was first ported to OS X, 2k ran a lot faster, where XP thought it's applications had stalled because they didn't respond in a timely manner since it was so slow. I can't speak for the MS branded updated VPC on a G5.

I'd hazard a guess that 16bit emulation wouldn't be a big issue anymore, I hardly ever see 16bit apps in the Wintel world anymore (wowexec is rarely seen here).

[WizOSX]

The other side of speed, however, is functionality and ease of use. Overall, XP is a much better OS than 2000. More stable, easier to use, more compatible. Especially if you use XP Pro. The worst of all is 98!! Very unstable. To anyone using 98 with VPC, one piece of advice--get XP, you'll be amazed at how much better it is.

[yukon]

WizOSX is incorrect I'm afraid, XP is NT5.1, Win2k is NT5. The only major differences are the added wireless card capability in XP (2k requires the manufacturer's program for WEP), added speed when booting (the bootfiles, updated in NT5.1, can be copied to 2k for that speedup during hardware detection), a boot defragmenter (just defragment once in a while), a crazy broken permissions change I don't know much about, and the added "playschool" Luna eyecandy (larger icons, very colorful) that everyone turns off. I've found XP to be somewhat slower than 2k, especially on other people's machines. However, I have found Win2k3 to be faster than 2k. I'm told that the server applications have been updated significantly, but otherwise it looks like an optimized XP with extra features defaulting to disabled (themes/luna, directx, etc). It's been said that MS finally broke compatibility with the previous programs to increase speed and security, though I have seen almost no incompatibility.

XP is NOT more stable than 2k, it may be easier to use for a new computer user because of all the "____ Wizard"s and such, but 2k acts more like the Win9x line in how you interact with the GUI (if you've used Win98 you'll feel at home). Not sure what he means by "Functionality", they're practically the same OS, they run the same programs and do the same things. With "compatibility", same deal, the only thing I've seen that was incompatible with Win2k was parts of Microsoft Plus for XP, most of which could be tricked into running by adding the "themes" entry into the registry...both 2k and XP have the Application Compatibility Environment which allows NT to run programs that check to see if they're running under DOS/95/95. There is hardly any difference at all between XP and XP Pro other than a few administrative utilities. The Wiz is right in that if you are on the Win 9.x codebase (Win3.11, 95, 98, ME), then get off of it as fast as possible - upgrade your machine so you can run the NT line, or learn how to use Linux. In the case of VPC, I'd actually recommend running Win98 as it's faster, but 2k or 2k3 when you use it enough for the emulated OS to get bogged down and unstable....better yet, avoid using VPC for anything other than converting .doc files and running .exe compressed files. Again, I can't speak for WinXP under the new versions of VPC on newer machines, MS may have optimized for XP at the cost of performance under 2k, though there wouldn't be much to change.

In all, I prefer Win2k3, then 2k, then XP. But they're all very similar, you might as well go with whatever is cheaper, and then go nuts disabling services in start>settings->control>admin>Services.

[WizOSX]

Thanks, Yukon, for a very enlightening explanation. Maybe its just the particular contexts in which I have used 98, 2k and XP--I had 98 on different machines I own, and it was very poor on crashing. Moving to XP was an incredible relief. I use 2k occasionally on a network at work and find it very poor relative to XP Pro on my machines (including in VPC 6). But maybe its just the network setup which is at fault.

[yukon]

Not a problem

Win 9.x is a quaint, speedy operating system line. It's main fault, is that it gradually...well, rots, it gradually falls apart. The NT line, if you let it run without installing anything (and not connecting it), it'll be fine....it only starts to degrade when you start installing programs, it seems, the more you install the faster it seems to fail, in my experience. 98 is old now, and insecure, the only reason to run it is on a Pentium 1 or low P2, in order to keep compatibility and speed. 95 is very old now, and every program you install seems to need a dozen new DLL files (like System 7). 3.11 is simply unsupported and ignored, long left behind (like System 6). ME (like a bad MacOS9), I have very little experience with, mainly because my experiances with it have been bad, I recommend avoiding it....if you liked it, XP is very similar, but based on NT, so it's modern....people who like ME and by extension XP usually like things such as Encrudamail, smiley happy animated dancing spyware programs. If you don't care about that kind of crap ("ooh, it's purple!" etc), then 2k should be fine as well. XP is like WinME in that it has System Restore, little animations, a more colorful UI, but it's all put on top of Win2k instead of 98SE, disable all that stuff and you've got a Win2k installation that's a bit bigger, so you can't be faulted for liking XP at all. 2k is sorta like what Rhapsody was to OS 9, if you've ever run Rhapsody or OS X DP2, you'll remember the way it tried to look like the Classic MacOS, despite the entirely different core OS.

I find that my installations of Windows are only brought down by overclocking, games, hardware failure (or win9.x drivers), and a windows networking problem where it suddenly can't talk to DNS (I HATE that, all NT machines have done it to me....clearing winsock additions, reinstalling TCPIP, WFP runs, reinstalling the NIC, NOTHING fixes it), where libraries' and schools' installations seem to be insanely slow, programs crashing everywhere. Anyway, Your company may have disabled 2k quite a bit, check out mmc.exe for the group policy snapin (gpedit.mmc or something, type either in the run dialog), you'll see exactly how a company can turn Windows into a really fat and expensive "thin client".

If anyone needs to use PCs, I'd heartily suggest Linux, it makes Windows look like a child's toy. Usually PCs need to have Windows, for MSOffice, games, or an obscure business program they can't move away from (peachtree, lotusnotes, all that stuff), so Windows is somewhat unique in some abilities due to it's monopoly. Move to Linux if you can, use Windows if you must for now. If you have a newish Mac, there's not much, if anything, that Linux functionally has over OS X.

And thats all about Windows, and....wait, what forum am I on? ;-)

[WizOSX]

Originally posted by yukon
98 is old now, and insecure, the only reason to run it is on a Pentium 1 or low P2, in order to keep compatibility and speed.

One of my machines is a 233 MMX Pentium with 128mb RAM running XP Pro. It is somewhat slow, but even here, XP is preferable to 98 due to 98’s crashing problems.

Originally posted by yukon
I find that my installations of Windows are only brought down by overclocking, games, hardware failure (or win9.x drivers), and a windows networking problem where it suddenly can't talk to DNS

I'll add one more to your list. A sad tale. And this, I suppose, belongs on MacNN forums because it all started on here.

At the end of September someone posted pictures of their new G5 iMac. I clicked on the links that they provided and within about 30 seconds all hell broke loose. I just happened to be on the internet with one of my XP machines. The site obviously installed a bunch of the search engine type adware programs (not sure just what you call them). Within a few minutes the machine was a mess. I tried using programs like adaware to remove them (which I had done a few times before) and also searched the internet for tips on removing the specific things that were installed. It turned out they were very new and hard to get rid of. I followed instructions on one of the sites on how to remove them and things got worse and worse. Internet Explorer no longer functioned and the machine slowed to a crawl. It was much better when not connected to the internet, but still not good. Since I was in the middle of some important work, my quickest solution was to buy a new PC notebook (a Tablet PC, which, by the way is quite remarkable).

Now, I can hear all readers (all Mac owners) laughing--that's what I get for using a PC and Windows. But the experience cost me a lot of time, money and distress. On the negative side for the Mac, it got me to buy another PC. On the positive side for Mac, I've virtually given up using any of my PCs for internet browsing--Mac only, except when absolutely necessary to use Windows.

If anyone is absolutely masochistic I will provide the reference to that topic on MacNN forums--but I'd rather not let anyone else have that type of experience.

[malique]

Wow. Couldn't imagine what my little question triggered.

Thanx for all the input, but yet I think there's not the scientific easy answer I'd hoped for. Anyway, I got an old Win 2k here and I think I'll stick to it if there's no masses in front of my window pleading to use XP …

*leering out of the window*

[yukon]

One of my machines is a 233 MMX Pentium with 128mb RAM running XP Pro. It is somewhat slow, but even here, XP is preferable to 98 due to 98’s crashing problems.

The only thing I can offer for any win98 user is Deep Freeze and a network share, to keep the system clean. Also, Linux would help, I'd suggest something lightweight like LFS if you have the time, or Debian, running Blackbox or IceWM etc...I'm assuming it's for services and not for compatibility like "I need to convert this .doc file", if you keep a slower machine then it's probably the latter. If less maintenance and more reliability is important, go with Win2k3 (faster than 2k) or 2k as it's faster than XP, since it's set up already I'd just think about it for when XP kicks the bucket. As a general tip for you poor XP-on-PI user ;-), search google for "blackviper services", the first result, to reduce what's loading with windows. Running a PC as a peripheral to a Macintosh has it's advantages :)

You can upgrade that machine cheaply now, to Duron/Sempron, or even a P2/K6-III/P3 for free if you can find one. Local computer dealers will have "upgrade kits", mobo/ram/cpu that you could shoehorn into your current PC, especially if it's standards compliant, for very cheaply. I use mostly free hardware on the PC, but you actually semi-impulse bought a tablet PC, so you can probably afford to make that PC more pleasant to use ;). Dunno about London, I only know of a few PC stores in Toronto, the stores in Winnipeg, BC, and in Alberta...Surely there's someone nearby who pieces together parts (I don't mean Futureshop/Compusmart/Bestbuy, try www.multitekcomputers.com, they've a 328$ upgrade system, their Fedora one looks nice but that's because I like AMD ;-). A fast PC is cheap and slightly more modern, mine does the continuous background tasks for my G4, a whole AthlonXP PC was cheaper than a G4 CPU upgrade.

I just happened to be on the internet with one of my XP machines. The site obviously installed a bunch of the search engine type adware programs (not sure just what you call them). Within a few minutes the machine was a mess. I tried using programs like adaware

First of all, your mistake was Internet Explorer. Ditch that. You can uninstall it under win9.x. It's the sole cause of most Windows problems, combined with Outlook to cause unending malware headaches. Firefox, honestly, kicks it's ass in everything except the few sites that give in to MS monopoly power. I understand if you need to test your own sites, but never use IE for browsing. Second, Spybot Search and Destroy is free (Spy Sweeper has done well in recent reviews however), and HijackThis would probably be able to forcefully remove the spyware that digs itself in for war.

It's true, macs are painless for the day to day things, a PC nearby can do workhorse tasks cheaply and can add to your compatibility range. On my machine, VPC was slightly slower than my PI 100mhz under Win98 on all tasks except disk access and networking (win98 running on a modern G4 has advantages). Don't bother with a separate machine if you don't want to learn it all, or don't have time to do or automate maintenance.

Anyway, I got an old Win 2k here and I think I'll stick to it if there's no masses in front of my window pleading to use XP

If you have 2k, then don't even bother thinking about buying XP. A general tip, if you have a burner, search the web for info on slipstreaming service packs, copy the CD to disk and slipstream it to SP4. I found that running an SP4 system from day one eliminated the problems that occur when updating a system to a new service pack. Get Firefox (mozilla.org), Spybot Search and destroy (something like "security.koalla.de"), and a proper VirusScanner (I forget the name, there's a quality free one...) to keep a virus from wiping any shared folders.