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innerimager · Dec 21, 2004, 06:36 PM

Any reason not to clone my OS (10.3.6) from my dual G5 to my G4 TiBook? I'd like to keep things in parallel. My only question is whether all the powerbook files are included in the general OS or not. Thanks in advance.....Peter

bmedina · Dec 21, 2004, 07:48 PM

You shouldn't have any problems; OS X installs are, by design, not machine specific.

innerimager · Dec 21, 2004, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by bmedina:
You shouldn't have any problems; OS X installs are, by design, not machine specific.

thanks....Peter

jmiddel · Dec 21, 2004, 08:47 PM

I do exactly that routinely, works flawlessly.

Mr. Blur · Dec 21, 2004, 10:56 PM

of course, the other issue is whether or not you have a license to run the OS on both computers....

ThisGuy · Dec 21, 2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
of course, the other issue is whether or not you have a license to run the OS on both computers....

hehehe

Boondoggle · Dec 23, 2004, 09:10 PM

He has a license unless someone can prove otherwise.

Which is essentially impossible.

Angus_D · Dec 24, 2004, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by Boondoggle:
He has a license unless someone can prove otherwise.

I'm sorry, but that's just a lie. He has no license unless he has explicitly been granted one by Apple Computer, Inc.

I hope you're not advocating software piracy.

Mr. Blur · Dec 24, 2004, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Boondoggle:
He has a license unless someone can prove otherwise.

Totally backwards. Actually, if you cannot prove you *have* a license, then you don't.

Boondoggle · Dec 25, 2004, 06:02 PM

the OS licence is 100% unenforceable. Further, it allows you to make one copy of your OS disks for backup. So for my 3 machines, I made backup copies from my 3 store bought copies of Panther, and guess what, I paid cash, and the originals burned.

Sue me, and see who wins.

Person who downloads OSX for free: Pirate

Person who pays for an upgrade: Enthusiast

Person who pays for a copy on more than one machine: Sucker

bd

Angus_D · Dec 25, 2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Boondoggle:
the OS licence is 100% unenforceable.

Copyright law is, uh, perfectly enforceable.

Further, it allows you to make one copy of your OS disks for backup. So for my 3 machines, I made backup copies from my 3 store bought copies of Panther, and guess what, I paid cash, and the originals burned.

Sorry, that's just incomprehensible gibberish.

Sue me, and see who wins.

I'm not the copyright holder, and you don't have any license with me, so I have no grounds upon which to sue you.

Person who downloads OSX for free: Pirate

Agreed.

Person who pays for an upgrade: Enthusiast

Person who downloads an upgrade illegally: Pirate.

Person who pays for a copy on more than one machine: Sucker

Person who installs the same copy on more than one machine: Pirate.

Boondoggle · Dec 25, 2004, 07:37 PM

If it cannot be proven stolen, it is not stolen under the law. Any plaintiff in a case like this has the burden of proof. Thats burden of PROOF, Not the burden of good intentions, or nice haircuts or fancy shoes or stirring oratory or clean hands. And there is no way for Apple to prove that one installation or another violates the license. Period.

Every first year law student learns that unenforceable laws are worth less than the paper they're printed on. This is just another example.

Apple's OS license is for all practical purposes UNENFORCEABLE. If they cared about OS Piracy by users, they'd have a serialization scheme just like they do for FinalCut Pro, Logic, Apple Remote Desktop, etc, etc, etc. Then they could actually demonstrate that a particular user did not have a valid licence, and that user could be sued effectively.

Having the most users possible useing the most recent version of OSX is a CLEAR benefit to Apple. Having some people, like me, pay for a copy is pure gravy, because, well, they have to develop the OS wether someone pays for an upgrade or not. I've paid for every version of the Mac OS since 7.5.5, and I've got all the disks, but I'm in to that stuff. But I'm not an idiot who thinks I could get sued for having used my buddies install disks, because I can't.

At the point at which the benefit to apple of having as many users as possible useing the os is less than the estimated lost revenue from pirating, they will institue a serialization scheme. They have every right. My estimated time on that..., approximately, NEVER.

Copywrite has little to do with it, because there is no way to distinguish between a so-called legitimate "copy" and an illegitimate "copy". There is, once again, no serialization of OS installs or installation disks. Also, copywrite is to prevent others from selling someone else's work as thier own, which is somewhat different.

Apple's license does have a purpose however, and that is it maintains Apple's ownership of the code and provides a basis for litigation should someone be stupid enough to start selling copies as thier own. And that is clearly what is important here, and where copywrite does play a part, but this is a very different thing from installing it on x number of machines. It has to do with intellectual property management and IS very serious and Apple would agressively persue anyone foolhardy enough to try it.

You aren't a pirate under the law, unless someone can prove you're a pirate. And there are no provable pirates of OSX under the law. That is the reality. It is a position with no reasonable vulnerablity. You can drape yourself in a white toga and wreath, put a bible under your pillow at night and buy the "Family Pack" license if it makes you feel better, but that does not change the reality of the situation one iota, or the fact that you just paid extra for something you could have had for less.

bd

Boondoggle · Dec 25, 2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
Totally backwards. Actually, if you cannot prove you *have* a license, then you don't.

I'd like to see the reference on that. Find "Proof of Purchase" in the license. Go for it.

Get back to us, will you?

thanks.

bd

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=26275

Boondoggle · Dec 25, 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Angus_D:

I hope you're not advocating software piracy.

Actually I prefer to think of it as Illustrating reality

Mr. Blur · Dec 25, 2004, 08:15 PM

.....amazes me the kind of lengths people will go to try and justify not paying for what they should. provable or not provable...who cares. you know you should have paid for it....do you get some kind of thrill out of running "legalese" around the issue? it is wrong and you know it.

Boondoggle · Dec 25, 2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
.....amazes me the kind of lengths people will go to try and justify not paying for what they should. provable or not provable...who cares. you know you should have paid for it....do you get some kind of thrill out of running "legalese" around the issue? it is wrong and you know it.

Well, as you said, "provable, not provable, who cares" Including Apple. So if they don't care, is it wrong? I don't know that I have to pay for it. The license does not explicitly state that the software must be paid for. This is infact the same license you get with free OS upgrades which are not paid for.

Also, as I stated above, I have paid for every non-free version since owning a Mac, starting with version 7.5.5 that came with my computer. And while I'm on the topic of reading comprehension, I did not say that I had ever made unlicenced copies of, or made unauthorized use of those disks. I simply illustrated the obvious fact that to the extent the license is unenforcable it is also frivolous. Sorry if you don't like it.

Here is a take-home question. If your Retail OSX disks, documentation and reciepts are all destroyed in a fire, do you still own the license for the copy on your computer? If so, how can you be distinguished from someone who got a copy from a friend? If not, then would you delete your OS immediately, or go buy a fresh copy before useing the computer? I'm just curious what someone with such a finely tuned sense of right and wrong would do in that situation.

Maybe, since you know you paid for it, you could go to the Apple store and just ask for another copy.