[ashtoash]

This is the *itch list. Lets post the little stupid things that Apple hasn't bothered to fix everytime it updates the OS. Tiger will be out soon and if we can get any little things fixed that would be great.

starter item:
If you view a window as "Show Preview" (So as to see thumbnails of your pictures) and hold down on the scrollbar OS X will stop rendering any previews of the image until you release the scrollbar. So much for threaded OS :-)

small annoyance but very annoying. I know windows does it with a .thumbnaildb file (annoying) and cache them, it's annoying that OS X has to redraw them on the screen evertime you open the window rather than caching them. I mean it does leave a .ds_store files, i'd almost settle for a thumbnail cache (obviously it would have to be done right) but redrawing all the thumbnails all the time.

Better account managment listing. The users in system preferences lists everything with a giant picture next to it. Add 20 accounts and it horrible listing. Do something like itunes. Even windows has excellent tools for accounts on the machine. Makes me think of fischer price or something.

[ashtoash]

Another simple request. In tiger (could you finally PLEASE) allow system preferences in the apple menu to show all the "control panels" with a separator between groups and icons in a SUBMENU? Like unsanity haxie does.

I mean OS 9 did this wonderfully. Sure I can leave it in my dock and do that (only when it's left open by right clicking) but why should i have it IN my dock and the Apple menu? Geewiz!

[Chuckit]

None of these actually make any difference to my day-to-day workflow, but feel free to tell somebody who would love to hear what you think:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

Though you may want to phrase it a little more politely if you don't want the folks on the other end to accidently slip and hit command-delete.

[Big Mac]

Yeah, there are some stupid issues that Apple just will not fix. ASZ949 just noted some really obvious bugs that should have been addressed long ago. In regard to having a System Preferences menu in the Apple Menu, that does make sense, but that's a feature request and not a bug fix. (It worked well in OS 9 simply because Apple allowed the user to choose Apple Menu items.)

[ashtoash]

Thanks for the input. hehe lets change it to bugs/feature requests thread of small things.

It really bugs me when people tell me to submit feedback to Apple. (no offense to you) but anybody who's mac savvy enough to know about Macnn forums knows about the Apple feedback page. I've submitted this things to Apple as probably hundreds of people have. Doesn't seem to change anything.

I have however notices that some of the threads on the various mac forums with lots of posts have gotten Apple's attention quickly. You'd be suprised how many Apple employees surf mac forums daily from work...

Anyone else want to post them here? Maybe somebody already started a thread and we can merge them. It would be nice to have a big compiled list that Apple might take notice of.

Update
Printing Dialogs in OS X (it's only slightly better in 10.4 Previews). I think the organization of them and layout isn't up to Apple's "legendary" easy of use and innovative GUI. It just feels cluttered and poorly layed out. Selecting from the dropdown menu feels slow for all the options? Maybe tabs? Something I don't know. Has anyone ever done a mockup of a "better" printer dialog?

[alphasubzero949]

Yup, check my thread on the energy saver bug, although it went a little bit OT by me into some other obvious bugs that irritate me, but not enough to disrupt my normal usage.

[Chuckit]

Tabs in the printing dialog wouldn't work very well, because the options are many and often long-winded (especially those added by third parties). I agree that the layout is a little bit muddled, though. Just not having a huge column of mostly unrelated drop-downs in the middle would be an improvement.

[Big Mac]

I think the layout of OS X's print dialog is superior to OS 9. When I first switched to OS X I was a little confused about where the various print settings were, but I quickly found the settings menu. Importantly, the print dialog you see when you select print is not cluttered with all sorts of options that you seldom need to access.

[-Q-]

How about moving the default browser settings out of Safari Preferences and into a System Preference as it should be?

[Big Mac]

It would be nice for Apple to restore the Internet preferences pane, but in Apple's opinion sticking default browser and default mail client into its own applications is a feature, not a bug.

[Millennium]

For the record, there is a difference between a feature request and a bug report. A bug is what happens when software is designed to do something, but for one reason or another does not do it properly. Bug reports seldom need justification, as long as you can show that the software was originally designed to do something and you've found a case where it doesn't do that. At most, the only real argument you'll need to make deals with how important it is that the bug be addressed immediately. Developers tend to have huge backlogs of bug fixes, and so demonstrating a bug's importance is often the key to getting it fixed. If the bug affects most users of the software, or has major consequences for the system (kernel panics, root-access exploits, and data loss all being examples of 'major consequences'), then you stand a good chance of getting the bug fixed quickly.

A feature request is when software does not do something you want it to do, but was not designed to do it. All of ashtoash's requests are for new features, not bug fixes. Technically, this is also true of the request by - Q - (though it's a strange decision that Apple made in that instance, and I can't explain the rationale behind it). These tend to require more justification than bug fix requests: you have to demonstrate what makes this feature important to include. Adding new features usually (but not always) takes more work than fixing bugs, except for the most trivial features and the most horrendously complex bugs, because not only does code have to be written but the software design needs to be altered (if only slightly), user interfaces need to be drawn up, the business folks need to give their approval, more testing needs to be performes, and so on. You will need to justify that extra work. You have marketing on your side -a new feature will usually sell more software than a fixed bug, if the feature is major enough- but they are not the only people you need to convince.

Either way, it all goes to Apple's feedback page, but they tend to take requests more seriously if you're aware of exactly what you're requesting and phrase things as such.

[ashtoash]

yeah i know they are different. We're changing the thread to anything common sense that we feel is stupid on Apple's part.

Added one:
Quicktime Plugin (affects all browsers)
The Huge Quicktime logo shows until the movie starts. Mostly if it's a long movie you think QT has frozen or have no idea how much of the file is left to download (safari shows only slightly better) the qt plugin needs a progress bar built in that shows under the QT logo. Everywhere I go novice users always click away with impatience because nothing tells them that it "just doesn't work" ... grrr. I can't believe somebody at Apple hasn't added somthing in for this yet. Even in Quicktime 7 still the same.

[Detrius]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

Don't forget to actually give Apple feedback. I recently requested SACD or DVD Audio support in iTunes. I also requested 5.1 downloads from the music store. My specific request was therefore directed towards iTunes:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html

If you have a digital surround sound system hooked up to your Mac or Airport Express, request this as well. Trust me, you'll love it when you get it.

A long time ago, I requested an Application to allow people to create music, as it was missing from their lineup. They had:

import pictures from device and edit. Burn to CD/DVD.
import movies from device and edit. Burn to CD/DVD.
import music from device. Burn to CD/DVD.

They were missing the edit, so I requested it. A year or two later, we got Garage Band. You can thank me for requesting it in a logical fashion, pointing out that there was a big gap in their lineup. If you request features in a logical method, explaining why it doesn't make any sense for a feature to not exist, then you are more likely to get a response.

These are people too--you have to make them WANT to implement your feature. If you try to make them feel dumb for not doing it, they will just get mad and ignore you. Like I've been saying, treat them with dignity and respect, and give them a reason to WANT your idea. You don't explain why you want it--you explain why they want it.

It's the first chapter of "How To Win Friends and Influence People."

[Detrius]

BTW, It's probably too late for Tiger. You should request features anyway, though.

[Superchicken]

For your first request, try Pic2Icon by sugar cube software. Just google it. I leave it in my dock and whenever I get new graphics I just drag em on top and it makes nice 128/128 icons. Works even better than the previews OS X creates. And it's fast! Add to that the fact that it's a GREAT way to make icons for things other than pictures.

[ashtoash]

Thanks superchicken, this can hold me over. Heh hopefully apple will see the light.

[ashtoash]

Yes it is getting pretty late. Some of the requests are simple things. Specifically in build 8a393 I've seen some features and bugfixes added to this build, of topics that generated huge threads at appleinsider. I know from somebody at Apple that it was infact a thread thre that brought it to their attention. Pretty funny since Apple is sueing them.

Originally posted by Detrius:
BTW, It's probably too late for Tiger. You should request features anyway, though.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Thanks superchicken, this can hold me over. Heh hopefully apple will see the light.

You're welcome. And yah I wish Apple would integrate this into OS X. But I'm glad you like it.

[mAxximo]

So many stupid mistakes, so little time...

Just one for now: I'd like to be able to just shut down my computer without having to type a f***** password when another user is logged in. To add insult to injury, the Shut Down button doesn't get focus after I typed it, so instead of quickly hitting Enter I'm forced to grab the mouse and click on it.

[Boondoggle]

one of my most agravating Finder bugs is the error message you get trying to move a video file to the trash when in preview mode. Finder sometimes thinks that because it is previewing the movie that it is "in use".

arg.

I've feedbacked on that, and it definately qualifies as a bug.

bd

[omar96]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
So many stupid mistakes, so little time...

Just one for now: I'd like to be able to just shut down my computer without having to type a f***** password when another user is logged in. To add insult to injury, the Shut Down button doesn't get focus after I typed it, so instead of quickly hitting Enter I'm forced to grab the mouse and click on it.

Well, you know, if another user is logged in with open applications/files, that's kinda a courtesy to the other user to...oh, I don't know...let them SAVE THEIR WORK?

[alphasubzero949]

Because in OS 9, to shut down the computer, all you had to do was to be working on something and then poof! It's just gone. You didn't do anything, you didn't type anything. It's just gone. It's shut down.

[Sharky K.]

In every update there is a fix for file sharing... still smb and afp are the only things that make my mac crash...
Finder should be rewritten in something stable and multi-everything

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Better account managment listing. The users in system preferences lists everything with a giant picture next to it. Add 20 accounts and it horrible listing. Do something like itunes. Even windows has excellent tools for accounts on the machine. Makes me think of fischer price or something.

While I do agree, Apple would probably argue that if you want lots of accounts you'll be wanting OS X Server and Workgroup Manager.

Actually, you can use Workgroup Manager on OS X client. PM me for instructions if you want.

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Because in OS 9, to shut down the computer, all you had to do was to be working on something and then poof! It's just gone. You didn't do anything, you didn't type anything. It's just gone. It's shut down.

Oh, that's clever, making up things about the Mac to cover up for OS X's annoyances...typical.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
Oh, that's clever, making up things about the Mac to cover up for OS X's annoyances...typical.

Excuse me for not including </sarcasm>.

[jamil5454]

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Because in OS 9, to shut down the computer, all you had to do was to be working on something and then poof! It's just gone. You didn't do anything, you didn't type anything. It's just gone. It's shut down.

^You didn't even get to save.

You can put the dock menu on the left, you can put it on the right, or you can put it on the bottom. But you can't put it at the top. No... that's reserved for the mighty blue Apple.

If you know your way around in MS-DOS you can recover anything. On a mac, you delete a file only to realize you needed it. So you run to the store and pick up a copy of Norton Utilities for Mac, run back, only to have Norton go, "you idiot! you own a Mac, your file is fcuking gone!" Arghh!

You see this? This is so you can attach a chain and use it as a boat anchor! Raarrgh! *Smash*


I cut together everything you saw here tonight, *sigh*, on a Mac.

[alphasubzero949]

I still crack up every time I watch that.

[ashtoash]

Apple's file sharing IS HORRIBLE HORRIBLE the worst of ANY OS on earth. Including windows 3.11 Nothing can make your computer freeze, or spin the rainbow will faster, and even sometimes kernel panic. It happens on all 100+ lab machines i use. Not to meantion it's not very fast. It's annoying that I can pull files through a web browser much faster than apple's only file protocol. Shame on you apple.

from HFS+ disk > Apache Web Server + any web browser on earth = FASTER and 1000x more stable than from HFS+ to another mac machine.

Absolutely Pathetic.

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
In every update there is a fix for file sharing... still smb and afp are the only things that make my mac crash...
Finder should be rewritten in something stable and multi-everything

[ashtoash]

I do know how to use it and i know the hack to hide certian users.

But can I get some options like "hide user from login" to not show the user in fast user switching? AT THE VERY LEAST?????? Seriously Apple how retarded is it that I have to have

download, upload, staff, bob, joe, sandy, rich, marvin, steve, john all listed in MY LOGIN window simply because I used your file sharing protocal and wanted them to be able to get files off my computer? These people are NEVER going to log into my mac os x machine. There should be an option in the user pane to lock them out from certian things and hide them.

Apple you may think you made it easier, but you only made it more confusing by showing these users everywhere. It frustrating and annoying, not to meantion every user loads up on space.

How about just an account with a full blown home directory? Any nix can do all this but not Mac OS X (at least not for a normal user)

Originally posted by Angus_D:
While I do agree, Apple would probably argue that if you want lots of accounts you'll be wanting OS X Server and Workgroup Manager.

Actually, you can use Workgroup Manager on OS X client. PM me for instructions if you want.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Printing Dialogs in OS X (it's only slightly better in 10.4 Previews). I think the organization of them and layout isn't up to Apple's "legendary" easy of use and innovative GUI. It just feels cluttered and poorly layed out. Selecting from the dropdown menu feels slow for all the options? Maybe tabs? Something I don't know. Has anyone ever done a mockup of a "better" printer dialog?

FWIW, I have. Here.

I'm curious to hear how 10.4 has improved the matter (and disappointed to hear it's only slightly better). I also find the current ones slow and clunky -- not on par with other improvements to the UI that've been made since OS 9.

[paul w]

Originally posted by lookmark:
[B]FWIW, I have. Here.

Not bad, although I'd still want quick access to a Save as PDF button, etc on the bottom.

But anything's better than the drop down menu.

[JLL]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
Just one for now: I'd like to be able to just shut down my computer without having to type a f***** password when another user is logged in.

I'm sure the other users will appreciate that.

Originally posted by mAxximo:
To add insult to injury, the Shut Down button doesn't get focus after I typed it, so instead of quickly hitting Enter I'm forced to grab the mouse and click on it.

Instead of bashing Mac OS X all the time you should try to learn the features the OS has - try and look into something called Full Keyboard Access.

I know it wasn't a feature in OS 9, but Apple and most of the users have moved on since then.

[JLL]

Originally posted by lookmark:
FWIW, I have. Here.

I'm curious to hear how 10.4 has improved the matter (and disappointed to hear it's only slightly better). I also find the current ones slow and clunky -- not on par with other improvements to the UI that've been made since OS 9.

The main problem is (AFAIK) that the dialogs is made on the fly from the ppd file.

[analogika]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
For your first request, try Pic2Icon by sugar cube software. Just google it. I leave it in my dock and whenever I get new graphics I just drag em on top and it makes nice 128/128 icons. Works even better than the previews OS X creates. And it's fast! Add to that the fact that it's a GREAT way to make icons for things other than pictures.

It also adds about 50KB to every single image.

Once I realized this, I got rid of it very quickly.

A 20KB jpeg with a 50KB preview - no thank you.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by paul w:
Not bad, although I'd still want quick access to a Save as PDF button, etc on the bottom.

But anything's better than the drop down menu.

Agreed. The bottom of my mock-up is cut off, btw, but there would still be the Save as PDF etc there.

Originally posted by JLL:
The main problem is (AFAIK) that the dialogs is made on the fly from the ppd file.

On the fly or no, couldn't the OS turn the ppd file menu options into sidebar instead of a drop-down menu?

That drop-down menu is not only annoying to people who print every day, incidentally, but very far from clear for new users. I can't count the number of times that I've observed novice users not seeing that menu at at all, and not knowing where the various print options were.

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by JLL:
I'm sure the other users will appreciate that.

I have the other user 2m away from me everytime I ask her “Can I Shut Down this thing?” and she says “Yes”. I shouldn't have to go through the password nightmare everytime when I know exactly what I'm doing. But no, Apple assumes we are all retards now. Worse yet, I have to also type my username! Not even a drop down list or anything...gawd.

Instead of bashing Mac OS X all the time you should try to learn the features the OS has - try and look into something called Full Keyboard Access.

I still have to Tab through four buttons and waste time making sure I highlighted the right one before being able to hit Enter >> unnecessary annoyance.
The button of the action I was trying to accomplish before being asked for a freaking password should gain focus by default after I typed it, Interface 101.

[cpac]

You have a valid point (for once!) Maxximo with the default button thing, but you've got to give up on the password thing.

OF COURSE, the machine shouldn't just shut down when another user is logged in without requiring a password. (shockingly enough, your situation, with the other user sitting "2m away" is probably not typical, and certainly is not expected)

btw though, I've found that shutting down is something that happens once a week at most, more like once a month. Are you really shutting down all that often?

[cpac]

Oh - and even without keyboard access turned on, you can hit command + the first letter of the option you want when the shut down dialog is displayed. I'm at home, but iirc:

Log out = default (return)
Shutdown = command-s
Restart = command-r
Cancel = command-.

This often, though not consistently, works for navigating OS X (and OS 9) dialogs.

[Chuckit]

mAxximo is talking about the dialog you get when you want to shut down the computer, but other users are logged in. It screws me up everytime too. It seems like return should trigger the Shut Down button, but instead it means "Cancel."

[analogika]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
mAxximo is talking about the dialog you get when you want to shut down the computer, but other users are logged in. It screws me up everytime too. It seems like return should trigger the Shut Down button, but instead it means "Cancel."

Sure, it seems like it should.

Instead, Apple follows the ruling that the default option should be a safe one, i.e. "Cancel", with the more dangerous option requiring active selection by the user.

-s*

[Chuckit]

I think typing in your name and password counts as actively choosing to shut down. I mean, there isn't a "Don't Force Quit" button in the Force Quit window that's selected by default.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I think typing in your name and password counts as actively choosing to shut down. I mean, there isn't a "Don't Force Quit" button in the Force Quit window that's selected by default.

Yes, but you can only force quit applications that belong to the current user. You really should have to stop and think before you force other users to log out. You may not have even been paying attention to what came up on the screen. That would be bad, but it would be better to make you stop and think about what you are doing, even more so than the usual password dialog.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Another simple request. In tiger (could you finally PLEASE) allow system preferences in the apple menu to show all the "control panels" with a separator between groups and icons in a SUBMENU? Like unsanity haxie does.

I mean OS 9 did this wonderfully. Sure I can leave it in my dock and do that (only when it's left open by right clicking) but why should i have it IN my dock and the Apple menu? Geewiz!

This one has bothered me since 10.0

I am still amused that between OS X & XP. Apple / MS swapped the system perfs situation. XP now has the submenu and X lost it.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Detrius:
Yes, but you can only force with applications that belong to the current user. You really should have to stop and think before you force other users to log out. You may not have even been paying attention to what came up on the screen. That would be bad, but it would be better to make you stop and think about what you are doing, even more so than the usual password dialog.

The only reason it ever (well, not ever, but almost) asks for an administrator password is for changes that could affect all users. Why is this one dialog so counterintuitively different? Seriously, it screws me up every single time just because it doesn't follow with how the rest of the OS is designed. There is no other instance where a password is requested and hitting return tells the OS to reject the action you were trying to do.

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by Detrius:
Yes, but you can only force with applications that belong to the current user. You really should have to stop and think before you force other users to log out. You may not have even been paying attention to what came up on the screen. That would be bad, but it would be better to make you stop and think about what you are doing, even more so than the usual password dialog.

If you think you need all that crap before being able to shut down your computer that's fine, just give me a check button for “Don't ever ask for a password again even if there are other users logged in”. There, everybody is happy.

[chabig]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
I have the other user 2m away from me everytime I ask her “Can I Shut Down this thing?” and she says “Yes”. I shouldn't have to go through the password nightmare everytime when I know exactly what I'm doing.

Yes, but do you know exactly what she's doing? When you force a shutdown she's going to lose any documents or work that might be open in her account. That's not nice.

Chris

[m a d r a]

my three biggest bugbears:

1. put the finder preview in a drawer!
i still cannae believe that apple with all their focus on GUI design and usability came up with column view, whereby an icon leaps away from the mouse when you click on it - WTF?!!

2. remember my monitor color profiles!
as a laptop user i'm regularly having to connect and disconnect from external monitors, video projectors etc. almost every time i have to open monitors prefs and reselect my chosen colour profile because, even though the one i use is still highlighted, OSX is actually displaying the monitor[s] using the default profile. it drives me insane!

3. stop throwing windows in front of me when i'm working!
the new non-modal nature of dialogue windows in OSX is a great boon most of the time, but one thing that really irritates the f**k out of me is when i'm working in one app and another app suddenly throws one of its dialogue windows in front of what i'm doing. one memorable time that had me nearly throwing the comp through the f**king window, another app threw a dialogue in front of a really complicated marquee selection i had been painstakingly drawing out in photoshop and i lost it all.

this is the equivalent of somebody bursting into the room without knocking, while you're in the middle of doing a delicate piece of drawing or lettering, throwing a large book on top of what you're doing and saying "quick! - take a look at this...

[and it deserves the same testicle-bruising response. ]

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
If you think you need all that crap before being able to shut down your computer that's fine, just give me a check button for “Don't ever ask for a password again even if there are other users logged in”. There, everybody is happy.

Where would they put that? The Retarded Options preference pane?

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
Where would they put that? The Retarded Options preference pane?

No, in the Mac-like Options preference pane.