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Eug Wanker · Mar 11, 2005, 02:29 PM

That's what TS says.

The event, sources say, is currently scheduled for Friday, April 1 and will be delivered via satellite to numerous locations around the world. Unknown at this point is where the event will take place and whether the media or other outsiders will be invited to attend. Well placed sources say Tiger will likely be in stores by April 15.

cpac · Mar 11, 2005, 02:40 PM

Or maybe the April fools day was leaked for the purpose of making rumors sites look like, well...

I guess we'll find out in 3 weeks.

Detrius · Mar 11, 2005, 02:54 PM

It would be right smack in the middle of the "first half of '05." Also, it's entirely possible that it will be required for the major G5 updates that are expected.

ManOfSteal · Mar 11, 2005, 03:03 PM

Awesome.

ashtoash · Mar 11, 2005, 03:05 PM

Yeah it's seems dev has all but wrapped up. Hoping for another new dev seed by tuesday (current 8a393)

TheTraveller · Mar 11, 2005, 03:07 PM

That doesn't jibe too well with this:

http://www.macosxrumors.com/articles...tiger-release/

bmedina · Mar 11, 2005, 03:08 PM

But the developer builds are still in the "A" stage. I think it will still be some months before we see the final.

SMacTech · Mar 11, 2005, 03:40 PM

No way will it appear in April.

Grrr · Mar 11, 2005, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by TheTraveller:
That doesn't jibe too well with this:

http://www.macosxrumors.com/articles...tiger-release/

Which is known to be the worst rumour site there is.

mattyd · Mar 11, 2005, 05:08 PM

This is great news (assuming it's true). I've been having some annoying issues -- disk corruption, apps refuse to display alert dialogs, crashing apps.

I'd rather spend my $129 on Tiger than Disk Warrior, and if I need to do a complete reinstall I'd rather end up with a whole fresh new system.

Eug Wanker · Mar 11, 2005, 05:10 PM

If Tiger is really as buggy as people say it is, maybe I'll just wait until 10.4.1 before I upgrade my primary machine.

Originally posted by Grrr:
Which is known to be the worst rumour site there is.

Actually that site isn't *that* bad. It's not MOSR. It's MOSXR.

Chuckit · Mar 11, 2005, 05:17 PM

Is not.

MrForgetable · Mar 11, 2005, 05:43 PM

i say june at the earliest. wonder how much it will cost. 150 dollars

juanvaldes · Mar 11, 2005, 05:46 PM

I'm sure it will be 129 & 199 like the previous updates.

and my wild guess is end of june / early july.

Chuckit · Mar 11, 2005, 05:57 PM

$129 and $199?

olePigeon · Mar 11, 2005, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
$129 and $199?

Single and 5-User Family version.

goMac · Mar 11, 2005, 08:18 PM

The developer builds are no where near ready for release. They better not release in April.

ManOfSteal · Mar 11, 2005, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by goMac:
The developer builds are no where near ready for release. They better not release in April.

Umm, you obviously haven't tried 4K78 (with debug code removed)...it's solid!

goMac · Mar 11, 2005, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Umm, you obviously haven't tried 4K78 (with debug code removed)...it's solid!

I certainly hope thats sarcasm, because I'm running 8A393 and currently submitting a reproducible panic to Apple.

Detrius · Mar 11, 2005, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by mattyd:
This is great news (assuming it's true). I've been having some annoying issues -- disk corruption, apps refuse to display alert dialogs, crashing apps.

I'd rather spend my $129 on Tiger than Disk Warrior, and if I need to do a complete reinstall I'd rather end up with a whole fresh new system.

This is PRECISELY why developer releases are under NDA and are not publicly available. If you are having problems with Tiger now, and you are telling us, then you are breaking NDA, and Apple has every right to revoke your license for it. Making comments like this about the problems you are having promotes unfounded beliefs that people will have the same problems with 10.4.0, and therefore hurts sales. This starts rumors, and this is why we are still selling copies of 10.3 even now.

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
If Tiger is really as buggy as people say it is, maybe I'll just wait until 10.4.1 before I upgrade my primary machine.

Duh, it's buggy.

It's still in development. You should ignore every complaint about every bug in Tiger until Tiger is released. In fact, you shouldn't trust bug complaints, as anyone running Tiger now and telling you about it either has it illegally or is breaking NDA.

Detrius · Mar 11, 2005, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by goMac:
I certainly hope thats sarcasm, because I'm running 8A393 and currently submitting a reproducible panic to Apple.

4K78 is 10.0.0. There were rumors of two different versions floating around... one with the debug code, and one without.

Is there something in the water tonight?

goMac · Mar 11, 2005, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Detrius:
4K78 is 10.0.0. There were rumors of two different versions floating around... one with the debug code, and one without.

Is there something in the water tonight?

Yeah... I detected there was a joke somewhere but I couldn't quite place it...

Now that I think about it, wasn't there a huge debate over whether 4K78 was GM?

: Joke slowly starting to dawn on self :

ManOfSteal · Mar 11, 2005, 09:49 PM

Detrius · Mar 11, 2005, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:

It's great, isn't it? I love enlightening people.

Just the other day, I explained a riddle to a buddy within a few minutes... that he had been struggling with for years. Oh well.

Detrius · 10:41 PM

Originally posted by goMac:
Yeah... I detected there was a joke somewhere but I couldn't quite place it...

Now that I think about it, wasn't there a huge debate over whether 4K78 was GM?

: Joke slowly starting to dawn on self :

One more thing... the rumors of two different versions of 4K78 were because the disk images on the pirate sites were two different sizes. I guess one was compressed and the other wasn't. I don't remember any more what was *really* going on. I do know, however, that people were upset because they thought they had downloaded the wrong one over their dial-up connections. Of course, some people thought that one version was faster than the other, so they thought that the snappier one had the debug code removed. But if there was debug code, it couldn't be the GM. Later, some people realized that it was the developer tools that made the system run faster... Apple had forgotten to include the "optimizing" phase in the basic OS install. There really were two different speeds of 10.0, but it was because they forgot: sudo update_prebinding -root / --not because of debug code. Now, of course, with the debug code and the 68k binaries all removed, 10.4 will be snappalicious.

Do you get it now?

(and did I get all of the buzz words?)

JHromadka · Mar 11, 2005, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Umm, you obviously haven't tried 4K78 (with debug code removed)...it's solid!

Anyone still have the OS X graphic with Debug Code listed?

Eug Wanker · Mar 11, 2005, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Detrius:
Duh, it's buggy. It's still in development. You should ignore every complaint about every bug in Tiger until Tiger is released. In fact, you shouldn't trust bug complaints, as anyone running Tiger now and telling you about it either has it illegally or is breaking NDA.

I know where you're coming from, but NDA or not, comments about Panther's bugginess 3 weeks before the release were accurate IIRC.

I agree with you in principle about the NDA, but still it's prudent to wait until the bug fixes before an upgrade with any new OS.

juanvaldes · Mar 11, 2005, 11:25 PM

There will always be bugs before release. The question is how many bugs, how often they are encountered and how many of them are "show stoppers". Is the general functionally of current features still in place and new features work as promised. If in most cases and hardware configurations pass this test they could go ahead with releasing the OS and deal with bugs as they come up with patches.

wtmcgee · Mar 12, 2005, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Umm, you obviously haven't tried 4K78 (with debug code removed)...it's solid!

Oh, the memories...

alphasubzero949 · Mar 12, 2005, 02:50 AM

Will Tiger still have error codes that no one understands? "This operation could not be completed because an error -34565435435 occurred."

I already submitted my request for errors in PLAIN ENGLISH to Apple Feedback.

zizban · Mar 12, 2005, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Will Tiger still have error codes that no one understands? "This operation could not be completed because an error -34565435435 occurred."

I already submitted my request for errors in PLAIN ENGLISH to Apple Feedback.

That's easy! It means: DOES NOT COMPUTE

Eug Wanker · Mar 12, 2005, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
There will always be bugs before release. The question is how many bugs, how often they are encountered and how many of them are "show stoppers". Is the general functionally of current features still in place and new features work as promised. If in most cases and hardware configurations pass this test they could go ahead with releasing the OS and deal with bugs as they come up with patches.

Yeah but the claims are that Tiger at this point is a lot less stable than Panther was 3 weeks before release. ie. Just before Panther went Gold, people were saying that they could comfortably run the OS full time. However, with Tiger it seems people are getting a lot more KPs and the general consensus is that they wouldn't want to run it full time. But who knows. I'm just repeating what I've read on the forums.

Personally I'd like to see Tiger released asap though, if I may not be the first one to install it.

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Will Tiger still have error codes that no one understands? "This operation could not be completed because an error -34565435435 occurred."

I already submitted my request for errors in PLAIN ENGLISH to Apple Feedback.

Yeah, this drives me up the wall. At least some of them have been (partially) fixed in Panther. It's better now in Panther than it was in Jag.

Detrius · Mar 12, 2005, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
...but still it's prudent to wait until the bug fixes before an upgrade with any new OS.

I'm not arguing with this at all. All I'm saying is that Tiger is in pre-release right now. You can't make judgments on the bugginess of 10.4.0 until it's out. Sure there will be bugs (there are still bugs in 10.3.8), but they won't be the same bugs that people are dealing with now. Some may even be new bugs. There may be similarities between the bugs that are in the prerelease now, but it's definitely not going to be the same set of bugs when it's released.

Eug Wanker · Mar 12, 2005, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Detrius:
I'm not arguing with this at all. All I'm saying is that Tiger is in pre-release right now. You can't make judgments on the bugginess of 10.4.0 until it's out. Sure there will be bugs (there are still bugs in 10.3.8), but they won't be the same bugs that people are dealing with now. Some may even be new bugs. There may be similarities between the bugs that are in the prerelease now, but it's definitely not going to be the same set of bugs when it's released.

Actually my point was that there is a several week delay before something is released. If Tiger were to be released April 1, then the latest build available on March 12 would likely be the same as that April 1 release.

However, TS suggests the real release when Tiger is in stores is actually something like April 15. If that's the case, then perhaps we'll see one more build before the release.

mattyd · Mar 12, 2005, 11:08 AM

Dude... relax. Did I say I was having these troubles with some developer release of Tiger? I guess I should have been more specific -- I'm running Panther 10.3.8 on an iMac. No laws broken I assure you.

Originally posted by Detrius:
This is PRECISELY why developer releases are under NDA and are not publicly available. If you are having problems with Tiger now, and you are telling us, then you are breaking NDA, and Apple has every right to revoke your license for it. Making comments like this about the problems you are having promotes unfounded beliefs that people will have the same problems with 10.4.0, and therefore hurts sales. This starts rumors, and this is why we are still selling copies of 10.3 even now.

Moose · Mar 12, 2005, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by bmedina:
But the developer builds are still in the "A" stage. I think it will still be some months before we see the final.

While it may indeed be "some months" before Tiger ships (I don't really care when it ships, honestly, as long as they don't miss 1H05), the ship date has nothing to do with "current" builds being in the 8A branch.

Originally posted by Detrius:
In fact, you shouldn't trust bug complaints, as anyone running Tiger now and telling you about it either has it illegally or is breaking NDA.

And, as we know, everybody in either of those two groups is a liar! I hate the NDA-breakers and the warez kiddies as much as you do (probably more). But some of them are actually regressing real bugs and reporting them to Apple.

Garage81 · Mar 12, 2005, 09:08 PM

you think the education discount on this gonna be 69 bucks like panther is now?

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2005, 09:45 PM

There is no reason to believe otherwise.

Superchicken · Mar 13, 2005, 02:32 AM

This wouldn't make sense... they have the WWDC coming up soon, what are they gona show there if Tiger is not JUST being released? Seems like they've bumped the show earlier probably to allow boxes to get into the channel and be ready for a late 1st Half sale. We might see quad PowerMacs and so on and so forth, but not likely before the WWDC. Remember Mr. Jobs likes to have a LOT to show audiences.

Simon · Mar 13, 2005, 02:47 AM

The AppleStore is down.

Superchicken · Mar 13, 2005, 04:56 AM

Really? Seems up to me

Simon · Mar 13, 2005, 05:01 AM

Hmm, what did it go down for? Can't see any changes...

Randman · Mar 13, 2005, 05:16 AM

Regular updates on the Apple Store. Nothing to see.

Pierre B. · Mar 13, 2005, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:

The event, sources say, is currently scheduled for Friday, April 1 and will be delivered via satellite to numerous locations around the world. Unknown at this point is where the event will take place and whether the media or other outsiders will be invited to attend. Well placed sources say Tiger will likely be in stores by April 15.

I don't believe a moment that Tiger is coming next month. The most that could happen in the event TS talks about, is Apple announcing Tiger's release date, somewhere between WWDC and end of June.

JLL · Mar 14, 2005, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by goMac:
I certainly hope thats sarcasm, because I'm running 8A393 and currently submitting a reproducible panic to Apple.

393 is three weeks old by now.

wulf · Mar 14, 2005, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I don't believe a moment that Tiger is coming next month. The most that could happen in the event TS talks about, is Apple announcing Tiger's release date, somewhere between WWDC and end of June.

There is supporting evidence fot the mid-April date, or at least the intention of mid-April.

Having launched iMovie HD and FC Express HD, there is a bit of a gap with HDV support in Apple's Pro line-up: Final Cut Pro HD does not, in fact, support the HDV format natively. This will come in Final Cut Pro 5. What does this have to do with Tiger? Nothing directly, but Final Cut Pro 5 is expected to make use of Core Video and other Tiger technologies, thus it will require 10.4 to run.

The "new pro app" that will (according to Think Secret) require Tiger is almost certainly FCP 5. Possibly we will also see a Motion 2 (or 1.5) that also requires 10.4. It would be fairly embarassing for Apple to turn up at NAB to launch FCP 5 (April 18), without having a shipping compatible OS to run it on. So I could understand why Jobs is anxious to ship Tiger sooner, rather than later - bugs notwithstanding.

Randman · Mar 14, 2005, 04:51 AM

Plus, as we all know, just because Apple says something is expected to ship by a certain date, it doesn't always mean that it will.

And while I'd love Tiger yesterday, I'm more than happy to wait an extra month or so and let Apple work out more of the kinks of 10.4.0

zzarg · Mar 14, 2005, 05:48 AM

TS have just proved to me why the rumour sites are dangerous....

I'm vacillating between keeping my old Rev.A 12" PowerBook (thanks for some good advice and support I've received here) going for a project I'm just starting or up-sizing to a new 15" PB and had just about gone to raid my piggy bank to throw hardware at my problems thinking that if Tiger ships in 5 or 6 months well c'est la vie.

Then TS 'leak' a Tiger shipping date only a few weeks away and it becomes a (slightly) harder proposition because I don't want to feel a need to return to the vaults again when Tiger pounces.

Now I know it shouldn't influence the decision to purchase but having it happen when I bought the original PB it would hurt to happen twice - it just feels like I keep forking out for no good reason. So if the rumour is true then I should wait.

Now of course, if the TS rumour turns out to be b/s then they've hurt Apple because I'll put off the order for at least a few weeks....

While I enjoy the rumour scene it can have it's downsides... this is one of them

Detrius · Mar 14, 2005, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by zzarg:
TS have just proved to me why the rumour sites are dangerous....

I'm vacillating between keeping my old Rev.A 12" PowerBook (thanks for some good advice and support I've received here) going for a project I'm just starting or up-sizing to a new 15" PB and had just about gone to raid my piggy bank to throw hardware at my problems thinking that if Tiger ships in 5 or 6 months well c'est la vie.

Then TS 'leak' a Tiger shipping date only a few weeks away and it becomes a (slightly) harder proposition because I don't want to feel a need to return to the vaults again when Tiger pounces.

Now I know it shouldn't influence the decision to purchase but having it happen when I bought the original PB it would hurt to happen twice - it just feels like I keep forking out for no good reason. So if the rumour is true then I should wait.

Now of course, if the TS rumour turns out to be b/s then they've hurt Apple because I'll put off the order for at least a few weeks....

While I enjoy the rumour scene it can have it's downsides... this is one of them

There won't be powerbook updates within a few weeks, as they were just updated. If Tiger is updated within a few weeks, you'll get a free copy anyway (for like $20 shipping--past precedent). I wouldn't worry about it. If you need a new laptop now, go get it. They were just updated--there's no better time.

zzarg · Mar 14, 2005, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by Detrius:
There won't be powerbook updates within a few weeks, as they were just updated. If Tiger is updated within a few weeks, you'll get a free copy anyway (for like $20 shipping--past precedent). I wouldn't worry about it. If you need a new laptop now, go get it. They were just updated--there's no better time.

wasn't expecting a new PB, just hate the thought of getting a PB which could have come with Tiger only to have to buy Tiger two weeks later !
The new 15" speed-bump is enough to push me over the edge, I just hate (and I mean hate) having to spend another US$129 because I rushed by a couple of weeks.
Now maybe TS have saved me from this, or maybe they're making me over-cautious, and maybe I should just try and cut a deal with my favourite Apple supplier (I've spent enough with them in the last 18 months that a copy of Tiger probably won't hurt !)

In a way if Apple would front with a date and a technology upgrade guarantee (even a sliding scale) or a decent upgrade pricing path to reward loyal knee-jerk upgraders life would be so much simpler