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thefunkymunky · Mar 31, 2005, 04:27 PM

Apple Computer's next-generation operating system, Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, is now complete, AppleInsider has learned.

According to sources, Apple earlier today declared build 8A428 of Tiger gold master.

Sources expect Apple to announce the completion of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger as early as tomorrow, April 1st.

Tiger is expected to hit retail stores in the second half of April.

More info here

ManOfSteal · Mar 31, 2005, 05:54 PM

alphasubzero949 · Mar 31, 2005, 07:37 PM

Awesome.

OptimusG4 · Mar 31, 2005, 07:50 PM

Now we just wait for the official announcement

Millennium · Mar 31, 2005, 08:25 PM

Frankly, I'm suspicious of anything posted within 36 hours of midnight on the morning of April 2. Timezones and such can make That Day come surprisingly early on the Internet, you know.

juanvaldes · Mar 31, 2005, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Now we just wait for the official announcement

and when it happens I'll be happy to have guessed wrong.

OptimusG4 · Mar 31, 2005, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
and when it happens I'll be happy to have guessed wrong.

Thats what I meant too

DeathToWindows · Mar 31, 2005, 09:37 PM

I, for one, will welcome it... stupid panther mail search protocols...

milhous · Mar 31, 2005, 10:34 PM

it'll soon be that time again when everyone will compare build numbers, MD5 checksums, have high-drama exchanges, and call each other liars.

should be fun.

Socially Awkward Solo · Mar 31, 2005, 11:02 PM

So anyone know if Sherlock is in 10.4 or did they axe it for dashboard?

Don Pickett · Mar 31, 2005, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Frankly, I'm suspicious of anything posted within 36 hours of midnight on the morning of April 2. Timezones and such can make That Day come surprisingly early on the Internet, you know.

Yup.

PurpleGiant · Mar 31, 2005, 11:31 PM

This time last year, the internet was divided over Google's choice to announce gmail on April fools. Those crazy fools playing us all like that!

dillerX · Mar 31, 2005, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by milhous:
it'll soon be that time again ... and call each other liars.

should be fun.

the lounge

haha

JLL · Apr 1, 2005, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
So anyone know if Sherlock is in 10.4 or did they axe it for dashboard?

It's still there - probably because there are still third party plug-ins out there.

PurpleGiant · Apr 1, 2005, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by JLL:
It's still there - probably because there are still third party plug-ins out there.

Hopefully once Tiger is released, we will see websites offering Dashboard Widgets to accompany their product or service. In most cases, it wouldn't take a developer more than a day to develop a simple widget with a simple task.

Something like:

or

...is a perfect example of a widget that could be created by a site for their customers. Unfortunately, management probably wouldn't see the purpose, as is often the case. Surely though, they will have a higher take-up rate than Sherlock Plugins, given the use of HTML in the widgets.

(Pictures taken from this thread )

Kate · Apr 1, 2005, 02:14 AM

These two mock-ups show exactly why Aqua should be neutral. It conflicts with any and all content so much. Thanks to SS there is a solution, but Apple should have done better IMHO in the first place, I think their GUI design conflicts even with their hardware design. Way to go in Tiger as well. I hope there is no initial conflict between Tiger and SS.....

Besides, I hope the mentioned developers would know their way with spell checkers.

Chuckit · Apr 1, 2005, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Kate:
These two mock-ups show exactly why Aqua should be neutral. It conflicts with any and all content so much.

I'm using OmniWeb here, and Aqua looks just fine with the content of this window. I think what you mean is, "It conflicts with garish themes that look nothing like Aqua." I mean, seriously, do you think those windows would look particularly more attractive with blocky grey Windowsish or cartoony purple Platinum scrollers?

I'd say these two mockups show exactly why people should stick to a standard interface.

PurpleGiant · Apr 1, 2005, 02:27 AM

If this were to come to fruition, I would imagine it would actually use a custom scrolling widget anyway

For the most part, I wouldn't expect any widgets to look like 'standard aqua'.

Gee4orce · Apr 1, 2005, 02:28 AM

You could always write said Widgets, and then present them to the companies in question asking for a few (thousand) $$$ in return....

analogika · Apr 1, 2005, 03:02 AM

Do make sure to spell *slightly* better, though.

PurpleGiant · Apr 1, 2005, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by analogika:
Do make sure to spell *slightly* better, though.

Hey, they ain't my pics

Grrr · Apr 1, 2005, 07:09 AM

Seems unusually soon after 'final candidate' and being April fools day n all, Im sceptical to say the least..

jocker · Apr 1, 2005, 08:20 AM

I'm bored... Its 3.20pm (UK time) and still no sign of anything.

What time (GMT) does Apple usually announce stuff. I know all of their keynotes etc. happen around 6p.m. (ourtime) which is around 9a.m. PST. Will Apple announce something then? Or do they normally do it at the end of their working day?

Please let me know so I can get on with my work without having to keep checking a dozen or so mac news sites every 5 minutes!

jocker · Apr 1, 2005, 09:14 AM

hmmm...

Apple's Small Business site now lists only Tiger when you click on the 'Mac OS X' link. Not sure how long its been like this...

http://www.apple.com/business/

The link takes you here:

http://www.apple.com/business/tiger.html

piracy · Apr 1, 2005, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Grrr:
Seems unusually soon after 'final candidate' and being April fools day n all, Im sceptical to say the least..

No, Tiger is definitely GM.

No doubt scores of people won't believe it. But for those who know me, that'd be no surprise.

Detrius · Apr 1, 2005, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by piracy:
No, Tiger is definitely GM.

No doubt scores of people won't believe it. But for those who know me, that'd be no surprise.

Dude, I haven't seen you around in a while. Did they remove the debug code this time??

piracy · 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Detrius:
Dude, I haven't seen you around in a while. Did they remove the debug code this time??

Actually, there are two versions of Tiger that will be shipping, both with the same build number. But in the same vein as Microsoft Windows XP Home Reduced Media Edition (now known as Windows XP Home Edition N), Apple is pleased to make available Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Reduced Debug Code Edition. It is only recommended for users who wish their systems to be "snappy", a technical term for the performance of the window dragging and resizing portion of the graphics subsystem. Traditionally, these areas have been crippled to fool the unwashed masses into thinking Mac OS X is "slow", since, as we all know, 99% of what people do with their computers in home and corporate settings is frantically moving and resizing windows.

In any case, I'm happy to be the first to reveal the news about Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Reduced Debug Code Edition. It's a proud effort, but the team doesn't feel like it's all the way there. Work has already begin on Mac OS X 10.5, codename yet to be determined, which will offer even further enhanced window resizing and dragging. Currently, research being done by Virginia Tech with System X has yielded a 4% increase in scrolling speed in Safari, and a stunning 11% increase in the performance of resizing a Finder window.

It's a bright future, folks, and I'm glad you're all a part of it.

JellyBeen · Apr 1, 2005, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by piracy:
Actually, there are two versions of Tiger that will be shipping, both with the same build number. But in the same vein as Microsoft Windows XP Home Reduced Media Edition (now known as Windows XP Home Edition N, Apple is pleased to make available Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Reduced Debug Code Edition. It is only recommended for users who wish their systems to be "snappy", a technical term for the window dragging and resizing portion of the graphics subsystem. Traditionally, these areas have been crippled to fool the unwashed masses into thinking Mac OS X is "slow", since, as we all know, 99% of what people do with their computers in home and corporate settings is frantically moving and resizing windows.

In any case, I'm happy to be the first to reveal the news about Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Reduced Debug Code Edition. It's a proud effort, but the team doesn't feel like it's all the way there. Work has already begin on Mac OS X 10.5, codename yet to be determined, which will offer even further enhanced window resizing and dragging. Currently, research being done by Virginia Tech with System X has yielded a 4% increase in scrolling speed in Safari, and a stunning 11% increase in the performance of resizing a Finder window.

It's a bright future, folks, and I'm glad you're all a part of it.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 1, 2005, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by piracy:
No, Tiger is definitely GM.

No doubt scores of people won't believe it. But for those who know me, that'd be no surprise.

Hey you have been right in the past so I believe you. Is the reported build number correct?

Grrr · Apr 1, 2005, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by piracy:
No, Tiger is definitely GM.

No doubt scores of people won't believe it. But for those who know me, that'd be no surprise.

Ahh, now given your past history on here, I have more faith in this

chris v · Apr 1, 2005, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by piracy:
Actually, there are two versions of Tiger that will be shipping, both with the same build number. But in the same vein as Microsoft Windows XP Home Reduced Media Edition (now known as Windows XP Home Edition N), Apple is pleased to make available Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Reduced Debug Code Edition. It is only recommended for users who wish their systems to be "snappy", a technical term for the window dragging and resizing portion of the graphics subsystem. Traditionally, these areas have been crippled to fool the unwashed masses into thinking Mac OS X is "slow", since, as we all know, 99% of what people do with their computers in home and corporate settings is frantically moving and resizing windows.

In any case, I'm happy to be the first to reveal the news about Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Reduced Debug Code Edition. It's a proud effort, but the team doesn't feel like it's all the way there. Work has already begin on Mac OS X 10.5, codename yet to be determined, which will offer even further enhanced window resizing and dragging. Currently, research being done by Virginia Tech with System X has yielded a 4% increase in scrolling speed in Safari, and a stunning 11% increase in the performance of resizing a Finder window.

It's a bright future, folks, and I'm glad you're all a part of it.

Excellent news.

MartiNZ · Apr 1, 2005, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by piracy:
No, Tiger is definitely GM.

No doubt scores of people won't believe it. But for those who know me, that'd be no surprise.

Well I think that's what we've all been waiting to hear, and you're the one we've been waiting to hear it from. Now there's technically no need for any further discussion/debate on the matter ... but there'll always be the naysayers.

Kate · Apr 1, 2005, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I'd say these two mockups show exactly why people should stick to a standard interface.

More standard than, let's say, any of those interfaces Apple currently uses besides and mixed into Aqua?

Tiger is no improvement, it is actually introducing more ingredients to the GUI soup. We'll see.

Anyway, is the rapid development not a bit rushed? Since the select dev base seems to get smaller and smaller due to Steves security concerns, isn't it getting more likely that bugs slip through unseen?

I only hope that Tiger needs not a 10.4.1 update within the first week.

asdasd · Apr 1, 2005, 03:35 PM

"I only hope that Tiger needs not a 10.4.1 update within the first week."

i only hope that they dont have to go past 10.4.9 this time, as with every release the point point releases go further ( which is not what you would expect if their bug tracking system was maturing).

See if they go past 10.4.9 they will prob. have to go to 10.4.11 rather than 10.4.10 which would be confused with 10.4.1 ( are you still with me?).

Plus it would probably come out 2 months after 10.5 - given that 10.3.9 seems to be later than 10.4

(Although as I think about that it could not be true.... all bugs fixes in 10.3.9 that weren't intriduced by 10.3.8 would have to also be in 10.4, so both may as well be released together).

However bugs introduced in 10.3.9 and 10.4 will be only fixed in 10.4.1 so keep saving Panther heads.

wtmcgee · Apr 1, 2005, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by asdasd:
"I only hope that Tiger needs not a 10.4.1 update within the first week."

i only hope that they dont have to go past 10.4.9 this time, as with every release the point point releases go further ( which is not what you would expect if their bug tracking system was maturing).

See if they go past 10.4.9 they will prob. have to go to 10.4.11 rather than 10.4.10 which would be confused with 10.4.1 ( are you still with me?).

Plus it would probably come out 2 months after 10.5 - given that 10.3.9 seems to be later than 10.4

(Although as I think about that it could not be true.... all bugs fixes in 10.3.9 that weren't intriduced by 10.3.8 would have to also be in 10.4, so both may as well be released together).

However bugs introduced in 10.3.9 and 10.4 will be only fixed in 10.4.1 so keep saving Panther heads.

My head hurts now.

Chuckit · Apr 1, 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Kate:
More standard than, let's say, any of those interfaces Apple currently uses besides and mixed into Aqua?

Absolutely.

moonmonkey · Apr 1, 2005, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Kate:
These two mock-ups show exactly why Aqua should be neutral. It conflicts with any and all content so much. Thanks to SS there is a solution, but Apple should have done better IMHO in the first place, I think their GUI design conflicts even with their hardware design. Way to go in Tiger as well. I hope there is no initial conflict between Tiger and SS.....

Besides, I hope the mentioned developers would know their way with spell checkers.

Shape Shifter will not work with Tiger until it is updated.
This is by design, always happens with Haxies.

DeathMan · Apr 1, 2005, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Shape Shifter will not work with Tiger until it is updated.
This is by design, always happens with Haxies.

Haxies by their very nature are fragile, delicate creatures.
Do you have anything to back up your claim that Apple is purposely breaking haxies, or are you just talking out of your bunghole?

Grrr · Apr 1, 2005, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Shape Shifter will not work with Tiger until it is updated.
This is by design, always happens with Haxies.

All the Unsanity ones I used in 10.2 worked in 10.3

olePigeon · Apr 1, 2005, 09:33 PM

Most certainly an eBay Widget would be made.

moonmonkey · Apr 1, 2005, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by DeathMan:
Haxies by their very nature are fragile, delicate creatures.
Do you have anything to back up your claim that Apple is purposely breaking haxies, or are you just talking out of your bunghole?

Bunghole.

Marook · Apr 2, 2005, 12:29 AM

Sorry guys...

Look for Tiger at WWDC... we're only Half way through the first half of 2005.. why should Apple release it now (when there are still many bugs to fix...) ??

analogika · Apr 2, 2005, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by asdasd:
See if they go past 10.4.9 they will prob. have to go to 10.4.11 rather than 10.4.10 which would be confused with 10.4.1 ( are you still with me?).

This would only pose a problem if people would assume decimal values.

But as most decimal numbers tend to have only one decimal point MAXIMUM, 10.4.11 wouldn't be more troublesome than, say, 192.168.2.1.

-s*

moonmonkey · Apr 2, 2005, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by Marook:
Sorry guys...

Look for Tiger at WWDC... we're only Half way through the first half of 2005.. why should Apple release it now (when there are still many bugs to fix...) ??

They are a company, they want to make money.

JLL · Apr 2, 2005, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Kate:
Anyway, is the rapid development not a bit rushed? Since the select dev base seems to get smaller and smaller due to Steves security concerns, isn't it getting more likely that bugs slip through unseen?

Huh? Why do you think the dev base is getting smaller?

Furthermore there will always be bugs - wasn't W2K released with 60,000 documented bugs? Not all bugs are critical and you could wait forever if you're waiting for a bug free release.

JLL · Apr 2, 2005, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by Marook:
Sorry guys...

Look for Tiger at WWDC... we're only Half way through the first half of 2005.. why should Apple release it now (when there are still many bugs to fix...) ??

How do you know that there are many bugs in Tiger? Plus some bugs are always only found when the product is 'in the wild' since no developer can test every system configuration available.

Moose · Apr 2, 2005, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by asdasd:
See if they go past 10.4.9 they will prob. have to go to 10.4.11 rather than 10.4.10 which would be confused with 10.4.1 ( are you still with me?).

I'm not aware of anybody who can count who would confuse the number one with the number ten, unless you're talking about preschoolers and kindergarteners, who don't care what version of the OS they're running anyway.

asdasd · Apr 2, 2005, 07:12 AM

I'm not aware of anybody who can count who would confuse the number one with the number ten, unless you're talking about preschoolers and kindergarteners, who don't care what version of the OS they're running anyway.

I suspect however that a lot of people would confuse the x.1 with an x.10 release. Because, to most people , the point seems like a decimal place. And - since I have to spell it out seemingly - the 0 in 10.4.10 would seem redundant to someone who thinks as point releases a decimal places. I thought I would not have to spell that out.

This is why most software manufacturers in the real world do not release any x.10 release, if they can help it. Often they stick on a x.9.x release. ( Like GCC, which was for nerds)

So - it's clear - were some software to advertise itself as only running on 10.4.10, or later, it would confuse people running 10.4.1 ( or later). This is fairly obvious to most marketering departments.

entrox · Apr 2, 2005, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by asdasd:
I suspect however that a lot of people would confuse the x.1 with an x.10 release. Because, to most people , the point seems like a decimal place. And - since I have to spell it out seemingly - the 0 in 10.4.10 would seem redundant to someone who thinks as point releases a decimal places. I thought I would not have to spell that out.

People who know that the number x.10 is equivalent to x.1 should already have the brain capacity to see that there is only ONE decimal point in x.10 as opposed to x.y.10, which isn't a real number at all.

This is why most software manufacturers in the real world do not release any x.10 release, if they can help it. Often they stick on a x.9.x release. ( Like GCC, which was for nerds)

We live in different worlds apparently, since I can recall lots of software releases with a x.y.10 version (the Linux kernel being the most prominent example). Oh, and GCC also had a x.10 release. But I guess you'll discount that as "nerd" software, since "real world" stuff uses words like "XP" or "Extreme" as a versioning qualifier.

Twilly Spree · Apr 2, 2005, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by piracy:
No, Tiger is definitely GM.

No doubt scores of people won't believe it. But for those who know me, that'd be no surprise.

true