[asianbond]

Converted after hearing the great things about mac, so far very frustrated trying to work this mac os in my mac mini.

Even in windows xp you no longer need to reboot the machine, what's up with that?

[albook]

You need to reboot to replace system files.
That goes to both Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows!

[discotronic]

Welcome to the Mac community

You still need to reboot Windows after security or system updates. I noticed that after SP2 was installed that Windows gives the option to reboot now or do it manually later. In order for the update to be fully implemented into the system a reboot is still required. If you don't reboot the system the vulnerability that the patch was intended to fix is still there.

If you want to learn more about OS X there is a great book by David Pogue called OS X: The Missing Manual. I highly recommend it to anyone who uses OS X. Here is a link to the book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...130175-2601664

It is a really easy book to follow and you don't have to start at page 1. You can skip sections so you can learn what you want to learn. It also has a section for Windows switchers that tells you how to do things on the Mac side that you might be used to doing on the Windows side.

[MHerberg]

I really hope this isn't flame-bait. As others have said, you need to restart when files replace system files that are in use.

As for Windows... and I'm talking with daily experience and use of XP SP2, you need to restart almost any time you install anything. Anyhow who says otherwise is either lying or ignorant.

Originally posted by asianbond:
Converted after hearing the great things about mac, so far very frustrated trying to work this mac os in my mac mini.

Even in windows xp you no longer need to reboot the machine, what's up with that?

[Millennium]

Running code has to be stopped before it can be reloaded. That is just a fact of computing, and it affects Windows as much as it does OSX. The trick to not needing a reboot between system upgrades is to write the OS in such a way that as little code as possible actually requires the machine to be rebooted to unload the code. It is impossible to make it so that no code at all requires a reboot, because the code which handles memory cannot be unloaded or there wouldn't be anything to reload it (unless you did it from hardware, but that's basically a reboot). However, you can get very close if the OS is carefully designed for it.

In theory, there should be no need to completely reboot the machine unless you are replacing the lowest of the low-level system files: xnu itself. Anything else, even kernel extensions, can be loaded dynamically. Of course, running code has to be stopped before it can be reloaded, so replacing LoginWindow.app will require everyone to log out, and so in some cases the situation might not be too different from an actual reboot, but a true reboot should only be required in relatively rare situations.

This said, Apple's installer technology hasn't yet caught up to the theory. There is no provision for automatically unloading and reloading kernel extensions, and while that can be added to individual installers via scripting it's more of a pain than most developers are willing to go through. Also, even though /sbin/init is only updated rarely, xnu gets updated fairly often, and so a reboot would be required anyway.

[wadesworld]

It's more a convenience thing than anything else.

Could Apple write an installer that unloads all necessary KEXTs, logs you you out, etc, etc? Sure. But for 99% of users, it's no more distracting to make them reboot and they understand that better anyhow.

Wade

[smeger]

As Millenium and Wade say, it's possible, but there's probably also a point of diminishing returns where the effort required by Apple to make sure that stuff will work without a reboot exceeds the annoyance of forcing the user to just go ahead and reboot.

I mean, if I were dynamically unloading a kext, well, that's a pretty dangerous operating while there's code running that might have that kext loaded. Sure, it's possible to do it, but I'd be a hell of a lot more comfortable just rebooting without it loaded.

[asianbond]

not a flame bait, just a bit frustrated trying to get a handle on basic functions, but based on my experience so far I believe the xp environment is easier and more intutitive to operate than the mac so far, in xp they basically do everything for you in clear descriptions, with my mac so far, i don't know how to direct my downloads and etc.

[Randman]

Originally posted by asianbond:
not a flame bait, just a bit frustrated trying to get a handle on basic functions, but based on my experience so far I believe the xp environment is easier and more intutitive to operate than the mac so far, in xp they basically do everything for you in clear descriptions, with my mac so far, i don't know how to direct my downloads and etc.

That's because it's a new OS and you are having to learn new things and unlearn other things. I've been a Mac user all my life and have had to use a pc at work lately and I'm finding things similar to you, just in reverse.

With time, everything gets easier. Just don't expect it to work just like XP, that's one of the pleasures of switching.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by asianbond:
Even in windows xp you no longer need to reboot the machine, what's up with that?

[Anubis IV]

By "direct your downloads" do you mean choose where they will be saved on your computer? If that's what you mean, you can choose your default download location in the Preferences for Safari. If you ever want to download in a place other than the default, just Ctrl+Click on the link or right click (if you have a 2+ button mouse) and select "Download Linked File As...". It'll bring up a dialog to save that file under any name and anywhere you want on your computer.

As for the intuitiveness of the different OSes, I would actually argue, and probably with reasonable scientific backing as well (*points to numerous studies on human-computer interaction and Apple's response to those studies*), that the Mac OS is significantly more intuitive to use than XP. What I think is going on, and I've seen it many times before, is that you've grown accustomed to doing it one way, a way that is not necessarily better, and now you're having to get used to doing it a simpler way. I watched my dad switch from Powerpoint to Keynote awhile back, and he kept getting confused because he was looking for complicated Microsoftian ways of doing things by accessing menus and submenus and the like. Most of the time all he actually had to do was click a readily visible button or use one of the easily reached palettes. The fact that everything was so accessible actually confused him initially since he was used to doing it the longer way as he had been doing for years.

Anyway, stick with the Mac OS for a good couple of weeks or months, don't let your initial impressions hold you back, and really get a good feel for it before you decide to pass judgment on it one way or the other.

[CaptainHaddock]

Asianbond, many of the ways the Mac does things are different than how Windows does it. Approach it with an open, inquisitive mind, and I think you'll quickly learn to like the Mac way of doing things just like I did when I switched last summer.

To address your initial question: Safari, to be as useful to non-power-users as possible, downloads files to a default location (it could be Documents, I don't recall). If the file is safe for opening, Safari will also launch it for you. So if you're downloading a new program as a .dmg file, for example, Safari will mount the disk image and give you a Finder window where you can install the program. If you download a PDF, Safari will launch it in Preview.

Advanced users can always right-click a link to save the file manually. Most advanced users will also open the Safari preferences to change the default download location.

There are plenty of websites aimed at acclimating Windows refugees to the Mac world. I suggest you check them out; in the meantime, here are a few tips based on my own experience:

1. The Dock: Any programs you don't use can be dragged off the Dock. Likewise, programs you use frequently can be dragged on. Also, you can launch an application from the Finder, right-click its dock icon, and choose "Keep in Dock" to make it permanent.

The right-hand part of the Dock can store folders. I suggest opening up Finder and dragging your Applications folder to the Dock, right beside the trash can. All your programs will now be accessible when you right-click the Applications dock icon.

The Dock is simple, quite unlike the confusing Windows interface that puts icons on the desktop, icons in your taskbar, icons in your quick-launch, and icons in your system tray.

2. Documents vs programs: The document/program paradigm on a Mac is different than in Windows. On a Mac, programs are not windows. Documents are windows. Documents can be opened and closed without terminating the program. The menubar at the top tells you what program is currently active, you can quit a program from the program menu if you need to. You can also right-click the dock icon to quit programs.

This is unlike the confusing Windows method where each document acts like a copy of the program with its own menu, and if you close the last document by accident the program quits too.

3. Installing and removing programs: 95% of Mac applications come as a disk image (.dmg) file. This is a compressed format that mounts like a temporary drive. Once mounted, you just drag the application's icon to Applications. It's installed!

To remove a program, you just drag it out of Applications and into the Trash.

This is unlike Windows, where every program requires an installer to create file directories, start menu links, and registry entries.

4. Managing windows: on a Mac, you don't have to bother constantly maximizing and minimizing everything. In fact, there's no true "maximize" button because no one would ever use it on a Mac.

To switch windows easily, learn to use Expos�. F9 shows you all your windows. F10 shows you all windows for the current application. F11 shows you the desktop. Command-tab also works (like in XP).

You can set Expos� to be triggered by your screen corners or extra mouse buttons, if you like.

5. Viruses & malware: Don't bother about these, they don't exist on the Mac.

Viruses and worms don't exist because they're hard to write for the Mac platform. Macs are Unix based and quite secure.

Spyware and adware don't exist because Mac users would never stand for it. Read http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/broken_windows if you'd like to know more about why that is.

Anyway, I hope I told you something you didn't know already here!