[Starry Night]

Aloha,

If this is the wrong forum for this, please forgive me.

I want to test drive Tiger before I update my whole system. That way my system will remain stable until I'm certain Tiger is ok dokey. Here is my plan, please tell me if this will work.

My system: MD PowerMac, G4 1.25ghz, 768MB Ram, 80 GB HD (only 20 GB being used) all running 10.2.6. I also have a Seagate Barracuda 160 GB external hard drive.

The Seagate is divided into 3 partitions. One 80 GB that is a clone of the PowerMac's HD, they are synced by ChronoSync. Another 40 GB that has stray stuff, and another 40 GB partition that is empty.

I'd like to use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone my PowerMac's HD (only totals 20 GB of data) to the empty 40 GB partition on the Seagate. Then when Tiger is released, buy it, and upgrade that partition from 10.2.6 to Tiger. Try Tiger out for awhile. If all is well, update the rest of my system to Tiger. Questions:

1) Is this a viable plan?

2) My PowerMac's HD is 80 GB, but only has 20 GB of data. The partition is 40 GB and completely empty. Will Carbon Copy Cloner still make the clone even though the capacities are different?

3) Will installing Tiger on the partition, and then later both on the PowerMac as well as the PowerMac's backup 80 GB partition on the Seagate, cause any sort of problems with Apple's licensing? I'm unclear how that works. Is it going to allow me to upgrade the experimental partition and then say, "you did it once, no more for you" when I go to update the entire system, even though they are clones?

I've had 10.2.6 since I became a Mac User and have never done any updates to the OS thus I'm new to this. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

[Randman]

For all of that work, why not just wait a week or two and see what bugs are in 10.4.0 and wait for 10.4.1?

[Mithras]

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Of course, an equivalent plan is to first clone your Powermac boot disk to the empty partition, and leave it alone as a "fallback". Then upgrade your Powermac to Tiger, and if all goes well, be on your merry way. If you find problems, roll back to the clone.

If you think you're likely to have no problems, then this saves you a little effort.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Randman:
For all of that work, why not just wait a week or two and see what bugs are in 10.4.0 and wait for 10.4.1?

Hopefully it won't be too much work. I admit I'm a bit chicken hearted about it all, but I've spent enough time in these sorts of forums to read plenty of disturbing stories in regards to OS upgrades. I realize those folks may be a relatively small percentage, but I run a business from my PowerMac, thus I can't afford to accidently become one of those troubled folks who post, "what a mess, how do I go back to before I updated".

It's not just OS bugs that concerns me, but also how all of the software (freeware, shareware, etc) that I use on a regular basis will be handled by Tiger.

Caution is the better side of valor

[Randman]

If running a business from your Mac, I'd either wait or install Tiger on one of the partitions and see how it works well with whatever software you use.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Mithras:
Sounds like a good plan to me.

Of course, an equivalent plan is to first clone your Powermac boot disk to the empty partition, and leave it alone as a "fallback". Then upgrade your Powermac to Tiger, and if all goes well, be on your merry way. If you find problems, roll back to the clone.

If you think you're likely to have no problems, then this saves you a little effort.

Thanks for the idea, this makes more sense than my original plan......

Here are the sorts of things I use on a regular basis:

Freeway Pro
Mellel
Bultler
Menu Meters
Earth Desk
Camino
Print Shop for Mac
the iApps
ChronoSync
games that waste my time but I play anyway

Do I need to be concerned about a major upgrade like Tiger not being compatible with my existing freeware, shareware and software? Do I need to contact each publisher and ask if their stuff works with Tiger before upgrading?

[Trygve]

I am the developer of EarthDesk. At least with our product, you should have no problems with Tiger. I think you'll see a few updates for various Mac software products shortly after Tiger is released, but in general I think 99.99% of all the stuff out there will simply work.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Trygve:
I am the developer of EarthDesk. At least with our product, you should have no problems with Tiger. I think you'll see a few updates for various Mac software products shortly after Tiger is released, but in general I think 99.99% of all the stuff out there will simply work.

Clouds, clouds, where are the clouds ? I'm eagerly awaiting them. Will the clouds work with 10.2.6 and Tiger?

MacKiev has a pretty nifty new globe w/clouds application, Oh Earth Desk, don't leave me without the clouds

[CharlesS]

Why not just install Tiger using Archive and Install? It archives your old OS, so you can just revert to that if you don't like Tiger for whatever reason.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Why not just install Tiger using Archive and Install? It archives your old OS, so you can just revert to that if you don't like Tiger for whatever reason.

Into the "Missing Manual" I go, thanks...

[The Godfather]

Remove your Panther HD, put in a new 20GB Harddrive and install Tiger in it. Playing with partitions is less safe than playing with a test HD.

[Millennium]

I'd just wait a week and monitor the forums for any trouble. Your machine is well within the required hardware specs, so you shouldn't have any trouble as far as that goes.

[Krusty]

Your plan is completely viable ... but as someone mentioned, why not just back up your current install to the empty partition, upgrade your main machine and revert if needed (by copying back from the external to internal).

I've done this numerous times with CCC to various different partitions (just make sure you have "make bootable" checked in CCC's prefs. I also recommend checking the option to erase directories before copying). The volume size difference is irrelevant as long as the partition on the external is large enough to hold what is on the internal.

Alternately, why not just install 10.4 to the external from the get-go. That way you can continue on uninterrupted with your main machine while you test drive 10.4

Finally .... WOW ... 10.2->10.3 was a pretty major change to the OS ... lots of new and rearranged stuff (and fast fast fast compared to 10.2 on my machines). Your jump from 10.2.6 -> 10.4 will be doubly shocking. I can't believe Omar didn't convince you to upgrade to Panther

[jcarr]

FWIW, when you upgrade the OS, I'd follow this procedure (this is the procedure we've used to upgrade 10.2.x machines to 10.3.x so it should also apply for 10.4):

1. Boot from your new Tiger CD (DVD?)

2. Before starting the installer, launch the Disk Utility

3. Verrify and Repair the disk if necessary.
(if you find overlapped files, DiskWarrior will usually fix them when DFA will not).

4. Repair permissions on the disk.

5. If everything checks out, install Tiger and you're done!

[chabig]

Originally posted by jcarr:
5. If everything checks out, install Tiger and you're done!

I would change that to "archive and install Tiger and you're done!"

Chris

[Trygve]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
Clouds, clouds, where are the clouds ? I'm eagerly awaiting them. Will the clouds work with 10.2.6 and Tiger?

MacKiev has a pretty nifty new globe w/clouds application, Oh Earth Desk, don't leave me without the clouds

Clouds are coming... in about two weeks. I am not yet sure if it will work with 10.2, but it most certainly works with 10.3 and Tiger (it is running on my machine as I write this... clouds and all). We are also bumping the map detail by 4 times. It was supposed to be out in November, but I had another project come up that didn't leave me much choice.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by Trygve:
Clouds are coming... in about two weeks. I am not yet sure if it will work with 10.2, but it most certainly works with 10.3 and Tiger (it is running on my machine as I write this... clouds and all). We are also bumping the map detail by 4 times. It was supposed to be out in November, but I had another project come up that didn't leave me much choice.

Awesome! Licensed user for 18 months here.

[chris v]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Why not just install Tiger using Archive and Install? It archives your old OS, so you can just revert to that if you don't like Tiger for whatever reason.

Will 10.4 revert to an archived 10.3? As far as I know, this wasn't possible with an Archive and Install before. Sounds like a cool feature, if it does. I'm just curious because I hadn't heard about this before.

[Kanji86]

Im new to apple's...but a veteran at pc's....

i just need some simple answers to my q:

I want to keep my Music Folder, iPhoto Library, Documents.....thats all, I have a 60 GB Powerbook. Im open to do most, but I want it to be simple and painless...which install should I do? and if so, what details can u provide me?

(i've read mac help's stuff on apple's website, i just wnat to know practical "real" people's opinions and instructions.)

thanks so much!

[Thinine]

Starry Night: Like everyone said, you plan is fine. Clone your HD to the empty partition, make sure you can boot off of it, and then install Tiger. However, for Tiger, I would just wipe your main drive (reformat) and do a clean install. Then you don't have to worry about little things screwing with your Tiger install. If everything works, move whatever you need from your backup and you should be back at 100%. And the move from Jaguar to Tiger should be pretty amazing. Be sure to give us your impressions.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by chris v:
Will 10.4 revert to an archived 10.3? As far as I know, this wasn't possible with an Archive and Install before. Sounds like a cool feature, if it does. I'm just curious because I hadn't heard about this before.

It's possible with 10.3--but Apple doesn't give you a nifty GUI to do it.

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by Kanji86:
Im new to apple's...but a veteran at pc's....

i just need some simple answers to my q:

I want to keep my Music Folder, iPhoto Library, Documents.....thats all, I have a 60 GB Powerbook. Im open to do most, but I want it to be simple and painless...which install should I do? and if so, what details can u provide me?

(i've read mac help's stuff on apple's website, i just wnat to know practical "real" people's opinions and instructions.)

thanks so much!

Well, if possible, back up your files to CD/DVD then erase and install so you get a fresh system folder. If you can't back up everything, archive and install will fit your needs as well.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by jcarr:
FWIW, when you upgrade the OS, I'd follow this procedure (this is the procedure we've used to upgrade 10.2.x machines to 10.3.x so it should also apply for 10.4):

1. Boot from your new Tiger CD (DVD?)

2. Before starting the installer, launch the Disk Utility

3. Verrify and Repair the disk if necessary.
(if you find overlapped files, DiskWarrior will usually fix them when DFA will not).

4. Repair permissions on the disk.

5. If everything checks out, install Tiger and you're done!

For #3, the Installer should already scan and repair the disk using the same method that Disk Utility uses.

For #4, there is no reason in hell why you'd need to repair permissions before reinstalling the whole OS. Come on, most of those files that you're changing permissions on are going to be replaced with new ones from the installer anyway!

[Detrius]

Originally posted by jcarr:
...3. Verrify and Repair the disk if necessary.
(if you find overlapped files, DiskWarrior will usually fix them when DFA will not)....

Actually, Disk Warrior will RARELY fix them. However, at least it tells you which files are overlapped so you can go delete them. Afterwards, run DW again and the problem will be gone.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Thinine:
Starry Night: Like everyone said, you plan is fine. Clone your HD to the empty partition, make sure you can boot off of it, and then install Tiger. However, for Tiger, I would just wipe your main drive (reformat) and do a clean install. Then you don't have to worry about little things screwing with your Tiger install. If everything works, move whatever you need from your backup and you should be back at 100%. And the move from Jaguar to Tiger should be pretty amazing. Be sure to give us your impressions.

Thanks to everyone, as usual, lots of great info to absorb.

If I do a clean install, doesn't that mean I have to re-install *all* of my applications as well, Home folder, etc, dragging them one by one over to Tiger? Is doing the regular install (or archive and install) really that bad of an idea?

I've been on 10.2.6 (shipped with my machine) for nearly 2 years. I've had zero problems, very stable, all of the software that I need work perfectly as well on 10.2.6. I figured why mess with success? At the same time, I don't want to fall too far behind, hence Tiger has caught my attention.

Thanks again!

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Trygve:
Clouds are coming... in about two weeks. I am not yet sure if it will work with 10.2, but it most certainly works with 10.3 and Tiger (it is running on my machine as I write this... clouds and all). We are also bumping the map detail by 4 times. It was supposed to be out in November, but I had another project come up that didn't leave me much choice.

Awesome, looking forward to it.

You get around Last fall in it was Croatia (or something like that) and now Dubai. I can see where your inspiration for Time Palette came from

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
Thanks to everyone, as usual, lots of great info to absorb.

If I do a clean install, doesn't that mean I have to re-install *all* of my applications as well, Home folder, etc, dragging them one by one over to Tiger? Is doing the regular install (or archive and install) really that bad of an idea?

If you do an archive and install, that is, for all practical intents and purposes, a clean install, and you will have to re-install zero of your applications that way (unless they have some kind of weird copy protection that gets set off by your OS changing).

[PubGuy]

Kanji86 wrote "I want to keep my Music Folder, iPhoto Library, Documents.....thats all, I have a 60 GB Powerbook. Im open to do most, but I want it to be simple and painless...which install should I do? and if so, what details can u provide me?"

Word of caution, your ~/Library folder contains all your preferences, your email, your address book, your calendar, your safari bookmarks, etc. You may want to consider using the Archive and Install option instead to preserve all your settings. What Archive and Install does is to intelligently move all user settings from your User's directories, then fresh installs the OS, then copies back all relavent user settings and files. That's why everyone is so up on the Archive and Install process versus just the Upgrade process since Archive and Install basically gives you a clean install with automatic migration.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by PubGuy:
Kanji86 wrote "I want to keep my Music Folder, iPhoto Library, Documents.....thats all, I have a 60 GB Powerbook. Im open to do most, but I want it to be simple and painless...which install should I do? and if so, what details can u provide me?"

Word of caution, your ~/Library folder contains all your preferences, your email, your address book, your calendar, your safari bookmarks, etc. You may want to consider using the Archive and Install option instead to preserve all your settings. What Archive and Install does is to intelligently move all user settings from your User's directories, then fresh installs the OS, then copies back all relavent user settings and files. That's why everyone is so up on the Archive and Install process versus just the Upgrade process since Archive and Install basically gives you a clean install with automatic migration.

At the very least, copy your entire home directory (/Users/PubGuy, for example).

This will get nearly ALL your user data -- can't think of anything it will miss if you don't save files in strange locations. Won't get all the machine settings, and won't get Applications, but it makes migration clean and fast.

[neoTony]

If you have a spare partition, do a clean install of Tiger onto that, and use the migration assistant to migrate your data across by choosing "Migrate data from another partition on my mac". It has been the easiest method for me to move stuff from system to system...

It also means that your applications (well, aside from the Macromedia apps) will continue to work fine.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by Krusty:

Posting a picture of Omar is just cruel and unusual punishment.
What have we done to deserve such a fate?!