[mishakim]

Given Apple's recurrent tendency to not make installers look for applications before choking or just putting new copies in the "right" location (see iWork for latest example), I was thinking I'd put all my apps back in their original folders before installing Tiger, but I don't know for sure where they all go (i.e. which go in Utilities and which just in Applications).

Can anyone provide a listing of which apps go in which folders?

[The Godfather]

I guess only utilities that were provided with Panther go in the Utilities folder.

Your applications came from inside a DMG, a SIT, a ZIP or a CDROM. I don't think you need to put them back there

But seriously, buy some CDRs and make backups.

[mishakim]

I don't care about backup, I've got that covered, what I want is to have the applications where Tiger expects them, so I have less to clean up after the install.

my point was that if, for example, Mail is in the "wrong" folder, Apple's updaters tend to mess up - either not updating the app at all, or putting a new copy in /Applications, or (haven't done this in a while) putting a non-functional folder called mail.app in Applications, containing what should have gone inside the existing .app bundle. To prevent that, I want to put the applications back in the folders they were in after Panther was installed.

[jabackes]

just curious, why did you move them, and also, go get a copy of pacifist and drop the osinstall.mpkg onto it when you get your dvd it'll tell you the layout of the installation. to get the .mpkg go into the DVD, System/Library/Installation/osinstall.mpkg and you're all set...

[SLam]

Originally posted by mishakim:
Given Apple's recurrent tendency to not make installers look for applications before choking or just putting new copies in the "right" location (see iWork for latest example), I was thinking I'd put all my apps back in their original folders before installing Tiger, but I don't know for sure where they all go (i.e. which go in Utilities and which just in Applications).

Can anyone provide a listing of which apps go in which folders?

I used to move my apps around too, like putting internet applications in a folder called Internet, etc. But after a few Mac OS X updates, I realized that the Installer/Software Update doesn't check for their locations. So I just leave them at their original locations. I created a new folder for all the new apps that I install. I get to organize that folder to however I wanted.

Here's my application listing for 10.3.8 with iLife 05. The stuff in ( ) are folders.

Applications:
Address Book
(AppleScript)
Calculator
Chess
DVD Player
Font Book
iCal
iChat
iDVD
Image Capture
iMovie HD
Internet Connect
iPhoto
iSync
iTunes
Mail
Preview
QuickTime Player
Safari
Sherlock
Stickies
System Preferences
TextEdit

Utilities:
Activity Monitor
AirPort Admin Utility
AirPort Setup Assistant
AirPort Setup Assistant for Graphite or Snow
(Asia Text Extras)
Audio MIDI Setup
Bluetooth File Exchange
Bluetooth Serial Utility
Bluetooth Setup Assistant
ColorSync Utility
Console
DigitalColor Meter
Directory Access
Disk Utility
Grab
HP Printer Selector
Installer
(iPod Software Updater)
(Java)
Keychain Access
NetInfo Manager
Network Utility
ODBC Administrator
Printer Setup Utility
System Profiler
Terminal
X11

[mishakim]

cool, thanks.

[frankiec]

Originally posted by jabackes:
just curious, why did you move them, and also, go get a copy of pacifist and drop the osinstall.mpkg onto it when you get your dvd it'll tell you the layout of the installation. to get the .mpkg go into the DVD, System/Library/Installation/osinstall.mpkg and you're all set...

They like to move them around because they're anal people and they like to cause more trouble for themselves because they have nothing else better to do in life.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by frankiec:
They like to move them around because they're anal people and they like to cause more trouble for themselves because they have nothing else better to do in life.

Yeah right, putting Mail into a folder called "Internet" inside Applications is nothing but trouble and I should be punished for it.

Apple has a way to find an application besides using a hard-linked path -- it's called LaunchServices. Is it anything other than laziness (and/or contempt for users who dare to re-org their apps) when they don't utilize it?

[frankiec]

Originally posted by lookmark:
Yeah right, putting Mail into a folder called "Internet" inside Applications is nothing but trouble and I should be punished for it.

Apple has a way to find an application besides using a hard-linked path -- it's called LaunchServices. Is it anything other than laziness (and/or contempt for users who dare to re-org their apps) when they don't utilize it?

No one said anything about you being punished but if you throw sh!t around then either choose to remember or don't complain about it when sh!t happens. No one here is paid to be your mommy.

What's so difficult about leaving the Apple(TM) apps in their "born" places and rearranging all third-party apps? That's what an intelligent person would do. But, "intelligence" doesn't matter when people can beg others to clean up their mess.

These forums are full of people mucking around with all sorts of things from f*cking around in /System to using haxies -- and then they complain about it when crap happens.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by frankiec:
No one said anything about you being punished but if you throw sh!t around then either choose to remember or don't complain about it when sh!t happens. No one here is paid to be your mommy.

What's so difficult about leaving the Apple(TM) apps in their "born" places and rearranging all third-party apps? That's what an intelligent person would do. But, "intelligence" doesn't matter when people can beg others to clean up their mess.

These forums are full of people mucking around with all sorts of things from f*cking around in /System to using haxies -- and then they complain about it when crap happens.

Sorry, but I don't consider creating a few folders inside /Applications to organize your apps the equivalent of mucking around in /System or using code-injecting haxies. If Apple doesn't want you to move Apple-provided apps, they shouldn't allow you to do it, or provide a warning dialog. (How on earth is a user supposed to know that they're doing something wrong?)

But they *do* allow you to do it, and in fact these days they're mostly pretty good about updating apps, even if (gasp!) they've been moved from the exact place Apple first put them. It's the few bad apples (iWork update, cough) that upset the cart.

[mishakim]

Originally posted by frankiec:
What's so difficult about leaving the Apple(TM) apps in their "born" places and rearranging all third-party apps? That's what an intelligent person would do. But, "intelligence" doesn't matter when people can beg others to clean up their mess.

These forums are full of people mucking around with all sorts of things from f*cking around in /System to using haxies -- and then they complain about it when crap happens.

You must be new to macs, or you'd understand that one of the great examples of the OS's robustness has always been that you can move an app and NOTHING BAD WILL HAPPEN, unlike windows, where it's a good chance it won't even work if you move a program. Apple has lost that ability on their own apps, for no good reason, due to their laziness in implementing installers. Most of the people on these forums "mucking around" with things are learning things, which is good, and intelligently asking for help, which is also good. Criticizing and insulting them doesn't help anyone.

[MacMan4000]

Originally posted by frankiec:
No one said anything about you being punished but if you throw sh!t around then either choose to remember or don't complain about it when sh!t happens. No one here is paid to be your mommy.

What's so difficult about leaving the Apple(TM) apps in their "born" places and rearranging all third-party apps? That's what an intelligent person would do. But, "intelligence" doesn't matter when people can beg others to clean up their mess.

These forums are full of people mucking around with all sorts of things from f*cking around in /System to using haxies -- and then they complain about it when crap happens.

Go Away.

[Starry Night]

This is something I haven't heard before. Could someone patient please offer clarification.

For the most part I have all Apps either in the Applications folder or the Utilities folder. For the sake of using Butler, I have created 2 sub folders in the Applications folder. One is "Best of Rest" which are apps that I use every once in awhile, not all the time, but not never either. Another folder is "Games" which has my current favorite games.

Am I correct in saying that I need to go through those sub folders and take any Apple TM applications out and leave them in the main applications folder?

Am I equally correct in saying that I can leave all non Apple TM apps in the sub folders?

Thanks!

[Big Mac]

In the classic era, Mac users were accustomed to moving any and all applications around without too much trouble. It should be noted that old Apple installers did not necessarily go out of their way to find out where the user had put their preceding versions. I remember, for instance, that QuickTime updates would place fresh copies on the root of the hard drive instead of in, say, the Utilities folder (where either I or a previous installer had placed QuickTime). It was a bit annoying, yes, but it was not something to fly off the handle about. I believe that people are not as forgiving of OS X because it is such a superb OS; when things do not work just perfectly, we're a bit disappointed. We also tend to romanticize certain aspects of the classic Mac OS, and this would be one such aspect. Now Apple could make the Installer more intelligent in this regard, but that would both increase the amount of installation time and possibly complicate things further. (For one thing, if the Installer were to go looking for applications located in unusual places, there is the possibility that the user had wanted to preserve an older copy of a given app by putting it in some subfolder, only to have Installer overwrite it with the new version.)

What I personally have restricted myself to is the following system of organization. All Apple applications I leave in the /Applications folder. Third party applications are placed either in /Applications/Third Party Applications or /Applications/Utilities/Third Party Utilities. I may well get tired of having all my Apple apps in one folder, but I have not gotten to that point yet. That way, I have consistency, and I do not have to be concerned about particular application placement decisions or Installer issues.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
Am I correct in saying that I need to go through those sub folders and take any Apple TM applications out and leave them in the main applications folder?

Am I equally correct in saying that I can leave all non Apple TM apps in the sub folders?

If Apple handled their installer right, you shouldn't have to worry about anything.

If they didn't for a few apps here and there (and we don't know yet), than things can get annoying.

So, you have three options:

1. Wait and see what the report is once people start installing.
2. Play it safe and move all Apple apps to their default locations, including the Utilities folder before installing.
3. Leave as it is, install, and if anything goes wrong, you can pluck what you need from the installation disc using a handy program like Pacifist.

[mrmister]

"What's so difficult about leaving the Apple(TM) apps in their "born" places and rearranging all third-party apps? "

It's fine--but it's not very Mac-like to not be allowed to move apps.

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by mrmister:
"What's so difficult about leaving the Apple(TM) apps in their "born" places and rearranging all third-party apps? "

It's fine--but it's not very Mac-like to not be allowed to move apps.

The user is allowed to move applications. Installers may not be able to find those applications, but as I said before, classic Mac installers were not necessarily intelligent about that either.

In the case of iWork, Software Update will stupidly not see the programs unless they are in the iWork subfolder of /Applications. (It won't even see the programs if they are placed directly in the /Applications folder.) I bet Apple will fix that issue in the future. As I said before, if the Installer were to go looking for previous versions to update, that would introduce other issues. The best thing would probably be for the Installer to prompt the user for the path of programs it can't find (or else to just perform upgrades in the default manner if the user selects that option).

[mishakim]

Originally posted by jabackes:
just curious, why did you move them, and also, go get a copy of pacifist and drop the osinstall.mpkg onto it when you get your dvd it'll tell you the layout of the installation. to get the .mpkg go into the DVD, System/Library/Installation/osinstall.mpkg and you're all set...

Thanks, that will help.

My original reply to your question about why must have gotten lost, and I think some other posts since then answer it, but basically, I moved them because I want things better organized —_if every app were just in /Applications (or in its own sub-folder), that would be a lot to sort through. Since I'm going to create category sub-folders for third-party apps, might as well move the appropriate Apple apps as well to keep related things together. I find keeping /Applications organized directly is more efficient for me than using some intermediate solution, like a folder of aliases or 3rd-party launchers or what not.