[mAxximo]

Basically the question is if there's any other way —including (gasp) the Terminal— of deleting things over a local network without having to go through the “Preparing to Move xxxx items to the Trash” and —way too much time later— “Deleting xxxx items”. It's so unbelievably slow. Even when those items (generally large image sequences) are inside one or two folders the X “Finder” insists in deleting them one by one.

[Brass]

You can use the "rm" command in the terminal. Keep in mind that you should use this with caution, as it doesn't move anything to a temporary location (ie, "Trash") first, it deletes them imediately.

in the terminal, type "man rm" to get details of how to use the command.

Be especially cautious of using the command with regard to possible typos. Ie, it is better to change to the dictory which contains the file(s) you want to delete, and then delete them from there, than to delete them by specifying the full path. Otherwise, if you accidentally press the return key in the wrong place, you could be in big trouble (particularly if you've used the "r" or "f" option to rm).

For extra safety, you can use the "i" option to rm, which will prompt you to confirm deletion of files.

[mAxximo]

Can I drag a folder that is located in my local network to the Terminal to specify its path and then execute the delete command?

[Brass]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Can I drag a folder that is located in my local network to the Terminal to specify its path and then execute the delete command?

yes.

Note that to delete a directory and all the files in it, you need to use the "r" (recursive" option. Otherwise "rm" expects a single plain file.

So in the Terminal, type "rm -r " then drage the file/folder into the terminal window, then hit RETURN/ENTER.

Use with CAUTION though!

[Chuckit]

In order to delete a folder, you'll need to use rm -r instead of just plain rm. Otherwise it'll helpfully explain, "That's a directory."

[CharlesS]

Uh, given that this is mAxximo we're talking about, I really don't think recommending rm -r is a good idea.

If you want to do it with a GUI, in a way that won't surely make you complain later on and claim that "OS X Requires You To Use The Terminal!", try one of the various freeware utilities designed to do this for you, such as this one:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/8214

[Chuckit]

That only deletes files in the trash, it looks like. Maybe something like DropNuke?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That only deletes files in the trash, it looks like. Maybe something like DropNuke?

Actually, it deletes files dropped onto it as well. But the program you posted will work fine too. There's not much to these apps, so I doubt there's much difference between them...

[Brass]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

the X “Finder” insists in deleting them one by one.

NB: It has to delete them one by one. This is the nature of file systems. It should not, however, be as slow as it often is on OS X. AFP is a dog of of a protocol.

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Uh, given that this is mAxximo we're talking about, I really don't think recommending rm -r is a good idea.

If you want to do it with a GUI, in a way that won't surely make you complain later on and claim that "OS X Requires You To Use The Terminal!", try one of the various freeware utilities designed to do this for you, such as this one:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/8214

The GUI in OS X is so poorly implemented and dysfunctional that even I am asking for methods to bypass it. If that means using the Terminal so be it.

Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information, I'll try doing the rm -r thing tomorrow. Can I expect it to be significantly faster than waiting for the X Finder's “preparing/moving” routine?

One more: Can I drag more than one folder/item to the Terminal after I typed rm -r and delete them all at once?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

The GUI in OS X is so poorly implemented and dysfunctional that even I am asking for methods to bypass it. If that means using the Terminal so be it.

[Brass]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

The GUI in OS X is so poorly implemented and dysfunctional that even I am asking for methods to bypass it. If that means using the Terminal so be it.

Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information, I'll try doing the rm -r thing tomorrow. Can I expect it to be significantly faster than waiting for the X Finder's “preparing/moving” routine?

One more: Can I drag more than one folder/item to the Terminal after I typed rm -r and delete them all at once?

There's nothing wrong with the GUI here... it's the speed of AFP that is the problem - expecially when it is dealing with items in a current GUI representation.

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by Brass

There's nothing wrong with the GUI here... it's the speed of AFP that is the problem - expecially when it is dealing with items in a current GUI representation.

That means that using the Terminal to delete the files will take as much time as using the “Finder”?

[midwinter]

Maxx: it'll be instantaneous. I do not know if you can drag more than one file to delete as a batch.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

The GUI in OS X is so poorly implemented and dysfunctional that even I am asking for methods to bypass it. If that means using the Terminal so be it.

Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information, I'll try doing the rm -r thing tomorrow. Can I expect it to be significantly faster than waiting for the X Finder's “preparing/moving” routine?

One more: Can I drag more than one folder/item to the Terminal after I typed rm -r and delete them all at once?

1-watch the flame bait. You are really good at this--without even realizing it.
2-it will be faster, but it won't be instantaneous.
3-Yes, you can drag more than one item to the terminal. You may have to manually enter a space after each time you drag a group of items to the terminal. Also, make sure that you have no stray / in the command, as that will attempt to wipe out your entire hard drive and everything mounted.

[Brass]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

That means that using the Terminal to delete the files will take as much time as using the “Finder”?

No, it will be faster, because "rm" doesn't produce any output at all. Ie, NONE. Whereas, a GUI-based process, by definition, must keep the user up to date with what it is doing. And the output is not just text, but includes graphics (icons, progress bars, etc). AFP is dog slow at this sort of thing.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Detrius

Yes, you can drag more than one item to the terminal. You may have to manually enter a space after each time you drag a group of items to the terminal.

Terminal automatically appends a space after each item dropped. You do need to make sure you type a space after the command name, though (unless you're manually dragging in the command too). Otherwise the first filename will be appended as part of the command name.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Detrius

1-watch the flame bait. You are really good at this--without even realizing it.

Oh, he realizes it.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

The GUI in OS X is so poorly implemented and dysfunctional that even I am asking for methods to bypass it. If that means using the Terminal so be it.

Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information, I'll try doing the rm -r thing tomorrow. Can I expect it to be significantly faster than waiting for the X Finder's “preparing/moving” routine?

One more: Can I drag more than one folder/item to the Terminal after I typed rm -r and delete them all at once?

GUI ? Finder.

Whenever I delete files that I access via AFP, the Finder asks them whether or not I want them removed immediately. How about using Windows sharing?

I would definitely advise against using the command line for someone like you (mouse person vs. keyboard person, nothing personal).

[cybergoober]

Does hitting Command-Delete produce better results than manually dragging to the trash?

As OreoCookie stated, when I am in an AFP share and I select items and Command-Delete them I get a dialog stating that the items will be deleted immediately...

[chris v]

Originally Posted by cybergoober

Does hitting Command-Delete produce better results than manually dragging to the trash?

Yes. You have to click through one button that says "The items will be deleted immediately", then it's done. Period. I've never experienced a lag of any sort with this method. I think the problem is dragging an item from a volume across ethernet to the trash on YOUR machine. Seems like that would basically move all the files, instead of just deleting them.

[SMacTech]

Originally Posted by Brass

There's nothing wrong with the GUI here... it's the speed of AFP that is the problem - expecially when it is dealing with items in a current GUI representation.

The GUI is simply a progress bar and showing the number of files being deleted. This in no way slows down the process of deleting the files. You could call these routines a thousand times a second, and it wouldn't have an impact.

We don't know at this point if maXimo is using AFP. He didn't say what the server was, and believe me, that will make a difference.

BTW max, the server deletes one file at a time too !! Do you think there is some magic block file quicker than lightning file deletion call ?

Being a sys admin, I can tell you first hand that even a win2k or 2003 server deletes files in this same slow method. In fact, a couple hundred thousand files in a directory on a win2k server will bring explorer to its knees really fast.

At least on my Mac, I can continue working while the deletion is going on. On the server, you pretty much can't do anything in the GUI until its done.

What will tomorrows thread be complaining about ?

[SMacTech]

Originally Posted by chris v

Yes. You have to click through one button that says "The items will be deleted immediately", then it's done. Period. I've never experienced a lag of any sort with this method. I think the problem is dragging an item from a volume across ethernet to the trash on YOUR machine. Seems like that would basically move all the files, instead of just deleting them.

Dragging network files to your local trash is the same as command delete. They will not be copied to your local trash.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by SMacTech

Dragging network files to your local trash is the same as command delete. They will not be copied to your local trash.

Then why the lag that he's complaining about?

[Chuckit]

Search me. He's complaining about some dialog that says the files will be moved to the trash, which I've never seen nor heard of. Network files give a dialog that says, "These files will be deleted immediately. Continue?"

[Jellytussle]

The share in question must have a .Trash folder at its root, as per the behavior of ASIP servers with their 'Network Trash Folder'. What OS is the server, mAxximo?

[NeilCharter]

I agree with SMacTech and Chuckit, command-delete will immediately deleted files rather than moving it to you trash.

Saying that - this is for connecting to others Macs running OS X. Haven't tested this for connecting to other computers.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Brass

No, it will be faster, because "rm" doesn't produce any output at all. Ie, NONE. Whereas, a GUI-based process, by definition, must keep the user up to date with what it is doing. And the output is not just text, but includes graphics (icons, progress bars, etc). AFP is dog slow at this sort of thing.

You're right about it being faster, but not about why.

The reason rm will be faster in the Terminal is because you are not using a network filesystem protocol to handle the deletes; you're actually sending a command to the remote system to delete the files. As far as the remote system is concerned, you may as well have typed it in at the keyboard. In the end it deletes all the junk one file at a time -that's the nature of the unlink() system call and analogous calls in Windows and OS9- but it processes the logic to delete everything on its own.

Network file-sharing protocols, on the other hand, don't do this. Although some of them -such as AFP- do handle remotely deleting files, they suffer from the same limitation as the system calls themselves: only one file at a time. This means that the computer must do all of the processing on its own. This means getting not just the list of files in the folder, but every list of every file in every folder inside it, and every folder inside that, and so on. Once that's done, every file must be deleted one at a time. Every single one of these tasks involves a network request, and often these tasks cannot simply leave the task behind in a thread and start a different task while waiting for the first one to finish: after all, you can't even begin deleting files until you know what is available to delete. Even the fastest networks today still have much higher latency than zipping data back and forth inside a single machine, and so of course it is slower.

This is not the Finder's fault. It is an issue inherent in file sharing protocols. Windows has the same problem, but it's not just as bad as that; mAxximo's precious OS9 had the same problem too. The best way around it is to cheat by actually assuming control of the machine via remote login, be that login CLI-based (as with ssh) or GUI-based (as with VNC). This gets around the problems of trying to use file-sharing protocols to do something other than sharing files.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

One more: Can I drag more than one folder/item to the Terminal after I typed rm -r and delete them all at once?

Probably not, because the path to the files is going to be different on your local machine (the way your machine sees things) from the path on the remote machine (where the files actually are). You'll need to find the path on the remote machine. Since you mention a "local network", I assume that you have access to that machine, so finding the files won't be much trouble.

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Search me. He's complaining about some dialog that says the files will be moved to the trash, which I've never seen nor heard of. Network files give a dialog that says, "These files will be deleted immediately. Continue?"

Of course you didn't see it.
After hitting Continue, if you're working with the massive amount of files I do, another dialogue comes up with a status bar saying “Preparing to Move xxxx items to the Trash”, then —after way too much time going through each file, one by one— another dialogue with yet another status bar as slow as the previous one says “Deleting xxxx items”. So, basically, OS X's “Finder” makes me go through two long processes instead of one to just delete some folders full of files in the server.

BTW, after trying using rm -r the Terminal returned

Code:
rm: illegal option -- /
usage: rm [-f | -i] [-dPRrvW] file ...
       unlink file

Where did I mess up?

EDIT: I read Millenium's post.
EDIT 2: OS 9 took a lot less time to do the same thing.

[leperkuhn]

rm -r relative_path

[OreoCookie]

mAxximo, what server do you have. Please give a detailed hw/sw config.

[mAxximo]

Our server is an SGI Octane running Irix. Don't ask me what version, I guess the latest...

[OreoCookie]

If it's Irix, then I would guess nfs sharing is also enabled. Try connecting to your server by Connect to Server --> nfs://[servername].

What is really weird to me is the fact that the files aren't deleted instantaneously.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

BTW, after trying using rm -r the Terminal returned

Code:
rm: illegal option -- /
usage: rm [-f | -i] [-dPRrvW] file ...
       unlink file

Where did I mess up?

You need to type a space after the command before you drag the files in, so that it looks like this:

Code:
rm -r /Users/mAxximo/myawesomefile

rather than this:

Code:
rm -r/Users/mAxximo/myawesomefile

Incidentally, I've noticed that deleting files in the Finder takes a weirdly long time too (relative to how long it took in OS 9 or how long it takes using rm), though I've never seen a "Moving files to trash" dialog on network files.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Incidentally, I've noticed that deleting files in the Finder takes a weirdly long time too (relative to how long it took in OS 9 or how long it takes using rm), though I've never seen a "Moving files to trash" dialog on network files.

I've never seen it either, nor have I seen it take an inordinately long time (even on multi-terabyte volumes) which makes me think something is hinky with the server.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

BTW, after trying using rm -r the Terminal returned

Code:
rm: illegal option -- /
usage: rm [-f | -i] [-dPRrvW] file ...
       unlink file

Where did I mess up?

EDIT: I read Millenium's post.
EDIT 2: OS 9 took a lot less time to do the same thing.

Just use one of the wrappers around rm -r, like I suggested before.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

I've never seen it either, nor have I seen it take an inordinately long time (even on multi-terabyte volumes) which makes me think something is hinky with the server.

Well, maybe I should qualify "a long time." For example, I had it take about a minute to delete several thousand files (don't remember exactly how many). That seemed a little long, so as a test, I restored from a backup and deleted them with rm. It took about 15 seconds that way. So it wasn't like I lost years of my life, but it does seem noticeably slower.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Well, maybe I should qualify "a long time." For example, I had it take about a minute to delete several thousand files (don't remember exactly how many). That seemed a little long, so as a test, I restored from a backup and deleted them with rm. It took about 15 seconds that way. So it wasn't like I lost years of my life, but it does seem noticeably slower.

Hmm.

I've been deleting files all day long and haven't noticed any lag. Admittedly, I haven't been deleting thousands at a time, and I've never timed the GUI versus rm.

[mAxximo]

Using rm -r took NO TIME to delete a folder full of items over the network. As OreoCookie said the key was “Connect to Server” and then drag whatever I wanted to delete. Perfect! Oh, if only the GUI was this efficient...

(Of course the “Finder” didn't update the window until I clicked on it, any signs of this being fixed in Tiger?)

[lookmark]

Yes, supposedly the Tiger Finder has kqueue support and should (finally, damn it!) be much better about updating the status of windows and the desktop. One can only hope.

[ginoledesma]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Hmm.

I've been deleting files all day long and haven't noticed any lag. Admittedly, I haven't been deleting thousands at a time, and I've never timed the GUI versus rm.

The Finder empty trash progress bar seems to do some counting before proceeding to actually deleting the files. Simple test:

1. Create a temp folder
2. Create 50,000 files

Code:
i=0;
cd temp
while [ $i -lt 50000 ]
do
   echo $i > $i
   let i=$i+1
done

3. Drag temp folder to trash
4. Select Finder > Empty Trash...
5. Watch progress bar "Preparing to empty trash" count the number of files in the trash before actually deleting the files.

The above scenario is worse when doing it over a network through the Finder -- whether it's FTP (ugh! especially FTP), WebDAV, Samba, AFP, or NFS.

Then again, not everyone does this kind of operation on a regular basis. I've only seen these a couple of times when dealing with our corporate network.