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therobertman · Apr 26, 2005, 10:47 PM

What are the benefits/drawbacks to installing Tiger by a simple 'Upgrade' as opposed to an 'Archive and Install'?

The explanation on the apple site isn't very clear on this.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 26, 2005, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by therobertman

What are the benefits/drawbacks to installing Tiger by a simple 'Upgrade' as opposed to an 'Archive and Install'?

The explanation on the apple site isn't very clear on this.

"Archive and Install" installs a clean copy of Tiger, but preserves a copy of your old Panther system so that you can more easily revert back if you have any problems. If things are going fine after a few days, you can just delete the archived system at your convenience. There aren't really any drawbacks to using this method in my opinion, other than the disk space the archived system takes up before you delete it.

A simple upgrade just installs Tiger over your existing system, which is somewhat more likely to cause problems than a "clean" install would. It's also more difficult to revert back to Panther in the case of major problems, because you can't simply "downgrade" in the same way that you can upgrade without having that archived system.

therobertman · Apr 26, 2005, 11:10 PM

Spacemonkey, thanks for the quick response. But I'm curious about my own files--my apps and my data. Are they all left alone in both cases? I got the impression that only a simple 'Upgrade' leaves them untouched. But perhaps you can clarify.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 26, 2005, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by therobertman

Spacemonkey, thanks for the quick response. But I'm curious about my own files--my apps and my data. Are they all left alone in both cases? I got the impression that only a simple 'Upgrade' leaves them untouched. But perhaps you can clarify.

If you Archive and Install, there is an option you can check to "Preserve Users and Network Settings," which will import your existing user accounts, their home folders, and network settings, so you won't have to recongifure any settings or applications. Any applications or documents that reside outside of system folders (if you have a separate folder for specific documents on the root level of your hard drive, for example) will be untouched.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 26, 2005, 11:27 PM

Oh, and I found this site, which talks about the Archive and Install feature in more detail.

therobertman · Apr 26, 2005, 11:38 PM

Spacemonkey, thanks again. This helps. It goes without saying that I should still do a backup of my home directory, just in case.

My only real concern is itunes and iphoto. I'm concerned that if I do a clean install, I'll never be able to reconstruct these libraries. Any thoughts on this issue?

SpaceMonkey · 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by therobertman

My only real concern is itunes and iphoto. I'm concerned that if I do a clean install, I'll never be able to reconstruct these libraries. Any thoughts on this issue?

Well, anything in your User folders (which is where iTunes and iPhoto store their libraries by default) will be imported into the new Tiger system's User folders. If, for instance, you keep your music files in a separate folder, but keep your iTunes library and .xml files in their default location in your User folder, then your music files will be untouched, and your library and .xml files will be imported into your new Tiger User folder (with back-up copies in your archived Panther folder).

Macpilot · Apr 27, 2005, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Oh, and I found this site, which talks about the Archive and Install feature in more detail.

Hey dude....that is awesome. Great info there....THANKS!

therobertman · Apr 27, 2005, 08:49 AM

Spacemonkey, if may ask one more question--since you seem very knowledgeable...

I was planning on doing an 'archive and install', but my understanding is that a 'clean install' would be preferrable. I'm hesitant to do that because I can see the whole thing going sideways on me when I try to restore my itunes and iphoto libraries (which are very large). Is there a simple but dependable way of doing this? I was going to take all of my data off of my computer and put it on the hard-drive of my wife's powermac. The part that concerns me is putting it all back. (I'm on a new 15" powerbook.)

But maybe it's not worth the trouble--maybe an archive and install is all I need.

Visnaut · Apr 27, 2005, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by therobertman

I was going to take all of my data off of my computer and put it on the hard-drive of my wife's powermac.

*snip*

But maybe it's not worth the trouble--maybe an archive and install is all I need.

Regardless of whether you use archive and install, or a clean install, you should always back up your data beforehand.

This is not to imply that Apple's installers randomly mess up your hard drive, but that the heavy disk activity associated with the install process may very rarely reveal problems already present on your hard drive.

Invariably, this always happens to *someone* who didn't back up their data, and you'll see posts from people claiming "TIGER ERASED MY HARD DRIVE!!! DON'T USE IT!!!".

It's not a risk I like to take, so therefore, I'm going to go through "the trouble" of backing up my data before I step up to 10.4. And since I'm already going to go through that, I might as well format the whole drive, and start fresh. But that's a personal decision.

The fact that it's always a good idea to back up, especially if you have irreplaceable data, is one I've learned the hard way.

chabig · Apr 27, 2005, 10:10 AM

A clean install is where you erase the hard drive and install OS X.

An archive and install is where you install a new version of OS X but keep all of the user accounts and preferences.

So an archive install IS a clean install really. There is no advantage to performing a real clean install on an machine that is already in use.

Chris

SpaceMonkey · Apr 27, 2005, 12:18 PM

Exactly. It's never a bad idea to back up your data. If it's convenient for you to do so before you upgrade, then you might as well do it. As for "clean" installs, the whole point of the Archive and Install feature is that it installs a clean, fresh copy of the OS (by archiving the previous system instead of installing over it) without having to erase and/or reformat the drive. So it provides really all of the benefits of an erase and install, but is more convenient in that it can transfer over to the new system all of your user data, applications, settings, files, etc.

If you wanted to do an erase and install and put all of your old iTunes and iPhoto files back, it would be as simple and copying the files over to your new system and telling iTunes and iPhoto where they are (using the "add to library" menu function in iTunes, for example). Keep in mind that an erase and install will install a copy of iTunes with all of the default settings, so you may want to make sure all of the settings are correct (setting a default music folder, etc.) before you add all of your music files back to the library.

kcm3 · Apr 27, 2005, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Well, anything in your User folders (which is where iTunes and iPhoto store their libraries by default) will be imported into the new Tiger system's User folders. If, for instance, you keep your music files in a separate folder, but keep your iTunes library and .xml files in their default location in your User folder, then your music files will be untouched, and your library and .xml files will be imported into your new Tiger User folder (with back-up copies in your archived Panther folder).

So everything that's in my User folders gets backed up as part of an "Archive and Install"? Given that I keep all of my music files in my user's home directory, I'd have an "archive" copy that is at least half the size of my hard drive. Which would effectively rule out an Archive and Install, without moving around some files beforehand.

Why does it need to create a new version of my user folder, anyway? What does the system depend on in there? That seems kind of like a bad design decision.

gururafiki · Apr 27, 2005, 02:54 PM

When Panther came out I did the upgrade option, and afterwards my computer ran soooo sloooowwww. So I went and did an archive and install, and that made all the difference! I got back the Snappy� feeling that OS X should have

Sebastian · Apr 27, 2005, 05:27 PM

So, just because I'm slow - will everything I keep on my desktop also be preserved (even though they display on the desktop, are they really stored in the users folder?). I need to be 100% positive that i'm not erasing info on multiple accounts, as there are a few accounts, and each person is storing their info differently (some keep photos in the photos section, some keep their files on the desktop, etc)...

bradb28 · Apr 27, 2005, 05:59 PM

ok, i dont have anything particularlly important on my comp. should i just clean install, or would that make it runs slow like Guru? or archive and install?
Im completely clueless, since this is my first iMac, or mac at all, and first time i will be upgrading from any Os even when i was a wondows user.
Any help is appreciated, BTW, my order is still preparing shipment, cant wait to get it and TRY to get it running
Brad

gururafiki · Apr 27, 2005, 08:32 PM

Archive and install does not remove anything in the users folders (ie desktop items). It just replaces all the system files with the new system files, and it saves the old system stuff so if something goes wrong you can always revert back to your old system.

Originally Posted by bradb28

ok, i dont have anything particularlly important on my comp. should i just clean install, or would that make it runs slow like Guru? or archive and install?
Im completely clueless, since this is my first iMac, or mac at all, and first time i will be upgrading from any Os even when i was a wondows user.
Any help is appreciated, BTW, my order is still preparing shipment, cant wait to get it and TRY to get it running
Brad

I would just do an archive and install. When you decide everything is ok then you can toss the old system folder and be happy.

bradb28 · Apr 27, 2005, 08:35 PM

When I archive and Install, where will the old system folder be, and when im happy with tiger, do i just drag that folder into the trash?
thanks
Brad

MacGallant · Apr 27, 2005, 08:52 PM

The old system folder will be moved into a "previous system" folder. Yes, you could just drag it into the trash and empty it out. Archive & Install preserves the user folders and applications installed at the main applications folders as well.

bradb28 · Apr 27, 2005, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by MacGallant

The old system folder will be moved into a "previous system" folder. Yes, you could just drag it into the trash and empty it out. Archive & Install preserves the user folders and applications installed at the main applications folders as well.

Great. i dont feel too confused now
thanks

magicbbird · Apr 28, 2005, 10:31 AM

There are posts saying that using archive and install does not transfer all emails to the new Mail program. Please kindly suggest the best way to transfer all emails to the new system?

Should we just drag our old mbox files to the new mail folders, or any other methods?

Thanks.

typoon · Apr 28, 2005, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by magicbbird

There are posts saying that using archive and install does not transfer all emails to the new Mail program. Please kindly suggest the best way to transfer all emails to the new system?

Should we just drag our old mbox files to the new mail folders, or any other methods?

Thanks.

If you have .Mac just back up mail and prefs and after the install just restore it and all your mail will be there. .Mac for me has made it's price worth it for system upgrades alone.

magicbbird · Apr 28, 2005, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by typoon

If you have .Mac just back up mail and prefs and after the install just restore it and all your mail will be there. .Mac for me has made it's price worth it for system upgrades alone.

Thanks first for your quick reply.
Does .Mac just backup mail setting (accounts) and not the mail/messages themselves? I realize .Mac backups all preferences, bookmarks, etc. But does it back up all emails?

Thanks for clarification.

azt33 · Apr 28, 2005, 12:28 PM

I want to do a clean install, but before I do that, I'm (obviously) going to back it up on an external HDD. I'm planning on using Carbon Copy Cloner for backing up my entire HDD from my PB. If I erase my PB's HDD, install Tiger, can I just put the entire backed-up system back on the PB's HDD? Just do a drag & drop, or do I need any other programs for it?

TIA

Kenstee · 02:20 PM

While I have read a lot a comments about the pros and cons of the three upgrade options, to date I have not seen any quantitative data vis-a-vis the relative merits or advantage (system performance -wise) of one method versus another. Is there any solid data? Or is it all about perceptions?

stuffedmonkey · Apr 28, 2005, 01:33 PM

Archive and install does several things. First off it moves any OS related directories *except* for Applications and Users to a new folder on the root called Previous systems. Then for any applications that are being installed - the old versions are moved to the Previous Systems folder as well. So if you install photoshop, then Archive and install - photoshop will still be there along with anything in your User folder.

The only problems you run into are apps that install items to the System or Library folders. Sometimes you ahve to mover .kext drivers or reinstall a few things.

You really can't "reactivate" the old system though.....

Carbon copy cloner works wonderfully well. Make a clone with it, then if your upgrade goes bad, use CCC to reclone the copy back. The result is identical to the origional - usually faster since the process amounts to a full defrag.