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Tiger on Pismo
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May 11, 2005, 12:53 PM
 
Is it worth it? Im pleased with the performance given to the Pismo with Panther and am curious if anyone else has put Tiger on a Pismo. I understand that perofrmance from Tiger is dependant on hardware - newer G4's and G5's got a boost but older machines performance is a toss up compared to Panther. Any suggestions?
( Last edited by tkmd; May 11, 2005 at 01:08 PM. )
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May 11, 2005, 01:04 PM
 
I ran the WWDC version of Tiger on my Pismo. It seemed to work alright. Haven't tried with the release.
     
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May 11, 2005, 01:11 PM
 
i'm running tiger on a pismo and it's fine. one might almost say... snappierĀ©
     
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May 11, 2005, 01:33 PM
 
A friend of mine is running Tiger on his Pismo and says it runs fine.
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May 11, 2005, 02:10 PM
 
I was running Tiger on my Pismo til I sold it, and it was OK. An improvement over all OS X versions before that, but I still fell back on OS 9.2.2 an awful lot. I only had 320MB of RAM though, so I'm sure tha'ts why.
     
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May 11, 2005, 03:31 PM
 
Tiger runs great on my Pismo.

If you've already bough tit, definitely install it. If you haven't bought it, I don't know if it's worth getting.

But, if you have the option of using it or not, I'd use it over Panther.

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May 11, 2005, 11:29 PM
 
I installed it on my Pismo and it seems even better to me.

tooki
     
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May 12, 2005, 08:27 AM
 
Some Tiger on Pismo observations:

500 mhz G3, 40g 5400rpm drive, 512 ram

More disc activity (than Panther)
Hotter
A little slower to login
Finder may be faster
iTunes synching (which was problematic in later Panther points) fixed (w/ iPod)
Spotlight is really nice
Safari incredible
Airport menu widget range varies more (in same distance) yet connection fine
Battery life better

Overall a nice upgrade. As I'm in a browser almost all the time, the Safari upgrade is really worth it for me, and the searching (of Safari hist/bookmarks) is great.

No real problems (Archive & Install) and good pluses so...
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tkmd  (op)
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May 13, 2005, 11:46 AM
 
So I took your advice and I started to install Tiger on the Pismo. repaired permissions , selected archive and install - only to get "there were errors- please restart" during the verification of the hd. Tried it 4 times and got the same error. Never happened before to me.
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May 13, 2005, 01:55 PM
 
I installed it on my girlfriend's Pismo and there was no problem. Have you tried reformatting your hard drive?
     
tkmd  (op)
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May 13, 2005, 02:00 PM
 
Oh god - I dont want to lose all that data! 40 GB of data to trudge through ! I want to stick to archive and install feature!
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May 13, 2005, 02:30 PM
 
well, in the long term, you probably want to get an external hard drive as backup anyway. That is, if you're REALLY afraid of losing all your data!

if not, maybe you could borrow somebody's drive.
     
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May 13, 2005, 04:29 PM
 
Better enjoy you Pismo while you can on with Tiger. The next release of OSX will not support the Pismo.

After 5 years, what do you expect?

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May 13, 2005, 10:59 PM
 
On a G3/400, 5400rpm 40GB disk, 512MB RAM, Archive and Install: Finder is snappier (less frames are rendered in interface animations), Spotlight is almost useless (but I'm organized). Had to reinstall Virtual PC, Norton Utilities won't deinstall :aargh: and some things were removed, but I eventually put them back. Dashboard is usable.


@Eriamjh: Jeez, what makes you so sure of that? As far as I know, the only way to take the Pismo out of the compatible list would be to 1) outlaw G3 machines (the Daystar G4/550 upgrade awaits you) or 2) outlaw machines with ATi Rage Pro cards, and the last option would instantly kill compatibility of the "dark blue" G4 towers, up to Dual G4/500, unless they had a replacement video card inside.

I think the next ones to go will be those that don't have AGP graphics (G3 B&W tower, G4 Yikes tower, and several iMac G3 revisions (drawer loading?).

However, Apple does tend to forget that the Pismo exists, and is the black sheep of the family.
     
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May 14, 2005, 05:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by tigas
.....Spotlight is almost useless (but I'm organized).....

......However, Apple does tend to forget that the Pismo exists, and is the black sheep of the family.

spotlight's worked like a charm for me. i 've had none of these slowdowns other folk [on much more powerful machines] have had and the searches seem reasonably fast - mind you, i do tend to popup the spotlight menu, type in a search term, close the menu again and get on with sommit else for a minute or two before i open spotlight again to see what it's come up with, so this impression may be more due to the 'background' way i use it, rather than any real speed improvements over the diabolical sherlock.

as regards the pismo, i've been waiting to upgrade for the past couple of years, but to be quite honest, for the work i do - mostly web stuff, graphics and a bit of scripting, it's still a perfectly adequate machine which has very rarely let me down over the five[?] years i've owned it and has stood the test of time a lot better than some of the 'superior' models that superceded it...

[thinks of all those tibooks sitting on people's desks around the world, with chipped and flaking paint or running too hot to use comfortably... or all those ibooks with screens which go off if you open them to the wrong angle... or all those powerbooks and ibooks with the newer mains adaptor which shorts out after a couple o months [we've had to replace about 8 of them so far in our dept at college]]

... so maybe i'll hang on a while yet and wait for the G5 powerbooks before finally putting my trusty old pismo out to grass.
     
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May 14, 2005, 08:14 AM
 
Agree. The pismo is amazing. Although I love my powerbook G4 and it has also been exceptionally reliable, the pismo is still a more flexible laptop, runs cooler, has much better battery life, feels more comfortable to work on with its soft edges.

I think Tiger has made it snappier too, spotlight works quickly and everything feels pretty good.

But still, get an external hard drive to back up!
     
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May 23, 2005, 06:20 PM
 
Well I just put it on the Pismo. Synced mail/bookmarks from .Mac. I am pleased it feels snappier - It almost feels like a new computer! Totally worth it. I love the quick scrolling in Safari now....
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Jun 19, 2005, 09:33 PM
 
When last I installed OS X (10.2.?), I was informed that I had to partition the 40 GB HDD into 8Gb and 32GB partitions, with the System files on the 8GB partition.

Do you still have to partition the HDD in order to install 10.4?
     
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Jun 19, 2005, 09:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by tkmd
So I took your advice and I started to install Tiger on the Pismo. repaired permissions , selected archive and install - only to get "there were errors- please restart" during the verification of the hd. Tried it 4 times and got the same error. Never happened before to me.
Try installing using an external drive; the drives in Pismos tend to have trouble when they get old -- and they all are by now.

My Pismo has all sorts of trouble reading lots of discs; it's always been a finicky drive anyway.

tooki
     
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Jun 20, 2005, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by tigas
@Eriamjh: Jeez, what makes you so sure of that? As far as I know, the only way to take the Pismo out of the compatible list would be to 1) outlaw G3 machines (the Daystar G4/550 upgrade awaits you) or 2) outlaw machines with ATi Rage Pro cards, and the last option would instantly kill compatibility of the "dark blue" G4 towers, up to Dual G4/500, unless they had a replacement video card inside.

I think the next ones to go will be those that don't have AGP graphics (G3 B&W tower, G4 Yikes tower, and several iMac G3 revisions (drawer loading?).

However, Apple does tend to forget that the Pismo exists, and is the black sheep of the family.
I'm not saying I'm sure. I'm basing its likelihood solely on the tendency for Apple to drop support for older machines at the 5 year mark. With the annoucement of Leopard for x86 at the WWDC, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple dropped even more recent machines from the list, but who knows...

(My iMac Rev.B 233 was dropped from Tiger support. Aug 1998 to April 2005 is pretty good for OS upgrades! Note: That is almost 7 years.)

There may be no technical reason to drop Pismo from Leopard, but Apple has done it before. The drop support for older machines based on age, not necessarily technical requirements. Even when OSX came out, it was supposed to be for G3 and up machines, but through a simple utility, OSX could be made to run on much older and slower 604 machines. No other fancy tricks were needed, just the one that checks the type of machine.
( Last edited by Eriamjh; Jan 22, 2006 at 07:38 PM. )

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Jun 20, 2005, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by scairns
When last I installed OS X (10.2.?), I was informed that I had to partition the 40 GB HDD into 8Gb and 32GB partitions, with the System files on the 8GB partition.

Do you still have to partition the HDD in order to install 10.4?
Um, I don't know who told you that but they were full of it. You've never needed to partition your hard drive to run Mac OS. There can be advantages to doing so, but it's not necessary.
     
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Jun 20, 2005, 04:57 PM
 
nonhuman, you DID need to partition the HDD on OldWorld machines. Beige G3's had to have no more than 8GB on the first partition.

However, since Pismo is a NewWorld Open Firmware machine, that doesn't apply here
     
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Jun 20, 2005, 05:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Louis_SX
nonhuman, you DID need to partition the HDD on OldWorld machines. Beige G3's had to have no more than 8GB on the first partition.

However, since Pismo is a NewWorld Open Firmware machine, that doesn't apply here
Damn, you're right. I forgot about that. My beige G3 was dead by the time I got OS X. First computer I installed it on was a Pismo.

Never mind what I said before.
     
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Jan 22, 2006, 07:38 PM
 
Pismo specific question on Tiger: I have two batteries. Tiger displays the battery status backwards (left and right battery status are swapped).

Is there a patch for this?

Second Tiger Specific question: Does tiger have a problem calculating the time remaining for Pismos or is it a 7200mAh battery thing (battery capacity too high)?

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Jan 23, 2006, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eriamjh
Pismo specific question on Tiger: I have two batteries. Tiger displays the battery status backwards (left and right battery status are swapped).

Is there a patch for this?

Second Tiger Specific question: Does tiger have a problem calculating the time remaining for Pismos or is it a 7200mAh battery thing (battery capacity too high)?
Try Slim Battery Monitor . As for the time remaining, recent versions of OSX are flakiER supporting the Pismo power manager but in the specific case of the 7200mAH battery I think NewerTechnology forgot to include the correct interface. Does the computer go to sleep cleanly when the battery ends or does it just shutdown? In Tiger, my original battery goes to sleep; unfortunately, it only lasts 10 minutes and measures as 40 minutes .
     
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Jan 23, 2006, 05:17 PM
 
As far as I can tell, the Pismo goes to sleep when the 7200 battery runs out. It also reawakens fine when the AC plug is inserted and then charges up.

I will try the "Slim Battery Monitor" and see what happens. If SBM gets its info from the OS and Tiger truly is the problem, then it won't help, but I'll try anything.

I found this on SBM's FAQ page:
Several users have reported an issue with recent operating system upgrades where SlimBatteryMonitor no longer reports the time remaining on battery, instead showing the (...) indication which indicates that the time information is being calculated.

All these users have found this to be an operating system issue. The test is to enable Apple's monitor too. Since SBM and Apple's monitor use the same data source, they should always display the same information. If Apple's monitor continuously displays CALCULATING and SBM continuously displays (...) then it indicates a problem in the part of the operating system that calculates battery run time.

The only recommendation I have in this case is to try Apple's documented battery recalibration procedure. Failing that, you may want to contact Apple's technical support department, or search the Apple discussions forum for other suggestions.
I noticed that XBattery appears to have a battery capacity maximum of 10,000 mAh. Imagine if they ever made batteries what that amount of reserve for any notebook?

All of these work arounds are great, but why can't Apple just have things that work stay working? Panther was great. Tiger isn't.

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Jan 23, 2006, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
Try installing using an external drive; the drives in Pismos tend to have trouble when they get old -- and they all are by now.

My Pismo has all sorts of trouble reading lots of discs; it's always been a finicky drive anyway.

tooki
I replaced the original 12 gig drive with a 40 gig when the 12 died.

Tiger runs fine on my Pismo.
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Jan 23, 2006, 10:16 PM
 
I now have a 40GB internal Toshiba disk (5400 rpm) and an expansion bay DVD-burner that I mounted myself (yes, it's fugly, so what - I've been using an original DVD-ROM for some time and it's louder and flakier, so there). I have a G4/550 and 1GB RAM. So, I'd say Tiger runs pretty well on my black TiBook in a Pismo case.

Well, not really. Since 10.4.4 I've been having the strangest Quartz problems; I'll reinstall when I get the time.
( Last edited by tigas; Jan 23, 2006 at 10:32 PM. )
     
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Jan 24, 2006, 12:37 AM
 
Tooki:
Good to hear you're still using Pismo. Mine's DVD player seems flaky, so I'm cautious about disturbing Panther to do the upgrade to Tiger. Could I put Pismo in Target mode to install Tiger from disks inserted in my ALBook?
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Jan 24, 2006, 08:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by tigas
@Eriamjh: Jeez, what makes you so sure of that? As far as I know, the only way to take the Pismo out of the compatible list would be to 1) outlaw G3 machines (the Daystar G4/550 upgrade awaits you) or 2) outlaw machines with ATi Rage Pro cards, and the last option would instantly kill compatibility of the "dark blue" G4 towers, up to Dual G4/500, unless they had a replacement video card inside.
You are referring to my comment of Leopard not supporting Pismos - It's an educated guess. I'm just playing the odds, really. If Apple only drops support of non-AGP macs, then the Pismo will technically be supported. If they drop G3s, then I think all the machines supported are still around 5 years old (when did the iBook switch to G4s?).

Believe me when I say I HOPE they do not drop support, but Apple is a weird animal. They do great things one day for their customers then seem to leave them out in the cold next (Is there FM tuner support for 3G iPods? No, but minis have support. And USB2 on Powermacs? The chip was in, but support wasn't enabled until either G5s or MDD G4s.).

The longer it takes Leopard to come out, the less likely it will be that Pismos are supported. The five-year window is a small one to a Mac user.

And I am looking at getting a G4 upgrade for my Pismo.

I think the next ones to go will be those that don't have AGP graphics (G3 B&W tower, G4 Yikes tower, and several iMac G3 revisions (drawer loading?).
Tray-loading iMacs were already dropped when Tiger came out. iMac G3s are slot loading and up.
However, Apple does tend to forget that the Pismo exists, and is the black sheep of the family.
I have read it is because it wasn't one of Steve Jobs' projects. He hated it. The overall design goes back to Wallstreet which debuted on May 6, 1998.
( Last edited by Eriamjh; Jan 24, 2006 at 09:21 AM. )

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Jan 24, 2006, 09:55 AM
 
Tiger is just so damn sexy whether it's on my Pismo or a newer machine. Fortunately, I haven't encountered any Pismo & Tiger issues yet...
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Jan 24, 2006, 05:42 PM
 
Apple could just stop supporting Quartz non-Extreme; that would blow most of the G3s (including many, many Dual-USB iBooks) out of the water, and even G4 Pismos.

Very difficult to justify since Quartz, just like Core Image and to some extent, Core Video, is supposed to ask the CPU/RAM for help if the GPU/VRAM can't cope. But doable.

Still haven't had time to reinstall Tiger. Over the weekend, maybe.
     
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Jan 24, 2006, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ryknow215
Fortunately, I haven't encountered any Pismo & Tiger issues yet...
Are you saying that your's displays the proper time remaining for the battery?

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Jan 25, 2006, 12:14 AM
 
Are you saying that your's displays the proper time remaining for the battery?
I have never paid any attention to the remaining battery time until today after I finished charging up. My indicator noted 'Calculating...' for a while and appeared to stay that way. I never found the time remaining to be particularly accurate while running Pantheir either, so I changed it back to the Battery icon.

Thanks for the heads up. Besides the 'Calculating' hang-up there have been no other issues
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Mar 13, 2006, 12:41 AM
 
I am all about my Pismo and have been for five years. It's a G3 with lots of RAM and the original 10 GB HD. The main hardward problem has been the yo-yo AC adaptor.

I upgraded to Tiger not too long ago and it has been great with the exception of the battery issue. A couple of weeks after upgrading a 5 month old battery went stone cold dead all of the sudden. Tried everything I could find including resetting nvram and resetting all in the open firmware, still nothing. I finally bought a new battery and a new PRAM battery, still nothing...

I am real reluctant to replace a logic board simply because of the expense. I notice that there are a lot of Pismos having issues with batteries under Tiger, but no one (i.e. at Apple) seems to admit this is a definitive problem. Is it?
     
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Mar 13, 2006, 06:22 PM
 
I did an upgrade install of Tiger on my Pismo (500 MHz, 1 GB RAM) and I'm lovin' it. I had to remove one of the 512 MB RAM sticks to get it to install without kernel panicking, but then I just slapped it back in and I'm good to go. I'm dual-booting Tiger with Yellowdog Linux 4.0.
     
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Mar 13, 2006, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by rambo47
I did an upgrade install of Tiger on my Pismo (500 MHz, 1 GB RAM) and I'm lovin' it. I had to remove one of the 512 MB RAM sticks to get it to install without kernel panicking, but then I just slapped it back in and I'm good to go. I'm dual-booting Tiger with Yellowdog Linux 4.0.
Same here, my friend's Pismo had 1GB of RAM in it but when I tried to install Tiger on it, kernel panic... I had to remove one 512MB chip for it to work. It had jaguar on it which ran pretty fast, but Tiger just roars. It's highly recommended!
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