[tie]

I bought a new Mac with 10.4 installed on it. X11 doesn't seem to be included. I downloaded X11 1.0 from Apple's website, but the installer won't run -- it says that there is newer software already installed. But I do not have an X11 app in Applications/Utilities. I installed X11SDK.pkg from Applications/Installers/Xcode tools/Packages, but I still can't find any X11 app. (What did I actually install? I didn't install all the other Xcode tools because, for now, I am only interested in X11.)

Is there an easy way to install X11 and get it running? What I want to do is be able to ssh -Y into a remote UNIX machine, setenv DISPLAY, and run X apps remotely. But obviously I don't really know what I'm doing.

Running a search, it seems that the OS X 10.4 installation disk allows custom installation of X11. But apparently the default installation didn't use this option. I don't have the installation/restoration disk easily available (I'm travelling all summer), but if there is no other way perhaps I can have it shipped to me.

[P]

Check in the Utilities folder in Applications, that's where it should be if it's installed. Generally you have to install it manually off the install disks. You could also build it from the source, available at www.x.org.

[tie]

Building off www.x.org I suppose won't give me the same behavior (e.g., no app will be installed in Applications/Utilities)? Are there any key features missing in this build, like maybe only full-screen mode instead of integrated windows? It's too bad Apple doesn't offer a download. I just assumed the default installation would include everything I needed, so I left the install disk behind.

If I install the Xcode tools, in /Applications/Installers, then manually build or use fink (which I haven't set up yet) to install x11, will I later be able to install the Apple application over the top (when I get home)?

[P]

The stuff at x.org includes the same stuff as Apple's X11 except the Quartz window manager, IIRC. You can do rootless (ie intermixing the windows) but the windows won't have the Aqua titlebar, youc an't minimize them to the dock etc. X.org forked Xfree86, which has absorbed the XonX stuff, which is what Apple also built on, so most of the stuff is there and it does work.

You can install Apple's stuff over the X11 stuff later. You will have to delete the XDarwin app that x.org installs, but the rest is replaced. If you need to remove X11 manually, it's trivial: Remove the directory /usr/X11R6, the directory /private/etc/X11 and the actual app - at /Applications/Utilities/X11 or /Applications/XDarwin, depending on your installation.

[tie]

Thanks a lot for your help. Actually, the source downloaded from x.org didn't quite work -- it didn't install anything in the Applications folder, and "exec startx -- -quartz" failed for no apparent reason. But I uninstalled following your directions, and then the (unstable) fink 10.4 package worked fine. It's great that expose still works. When I get home, I'll replace it with Apple's version. My computer seems to be really struggling to keep up with my typing at the moment, but perhaps that is something else.

[Detrius]

Apple's X11 is a custom installation, and it is on the DVD. Check in /System/Installation/Packages/.