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Kenstee · Jul 14, 2005, 06:00 PM

I'm on 10.4.1 and all is fine. Any compelling reason to move to 10.4.2?

From what I've been reading there are some Airport connectivity issues with both Apple and 3rd party wireless base stations/routers. So. I've been holding off.

Are there any benefits/advantages of 10.4.2? These updates always seem to be a crapshoot. Some work great and enhance things. Others introduce problems which are then solved with the next update. Opinions?

CharlesS · Jul 14, 2005, 06:13 PM

10.4.2 makes Dashboard a lot more secure than it was. So that might be a reason to update...

ManOfSteal · Jul 14, 2005, 06:15 PM

Hell. yes.

Footy · Jul 14, 2005, 06:23 PM

10.4.2 Safari fixed my online banking which I lost with Tiger. Safari seems a bit quicker for me then it did so I moved back from Firefox.

Superchicken · Jul 14, 2005, 10:55 PM

I've had zero problems since upgrading

And Dashboard is now much more feature complete.

Matt OS X · Jul 14, 2005, 10:59 PM

H E L L YEAH! It fixed my iChat/iSight problem with 1 on 1 video confrencing with insufficent bandwidth problem.. it's all working now.

Mr. Blur · Jul 14, 2005, 11:17 PM

go for it...and now there is also a seperate airport update as well which i believe deals with the other issue

Mac & Cheese · Jul 14, 2005, 11:23 PM

10.4.2 has been fine for me, but so was 10.4.1, really. The main advantage I've noticed is the improvements to Dashboard.

icibaqu · Jul 15, 2005, 12:02 AM

hmmmmmmmm

let's see

it's a free update

that fixes some issues

and makes little improvements we're not even really aware of

and its free

and uh, it's free

and...well.... dooooooo iiiiiiit

voicebox · Jul 15, 2005, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Blur

go for it...and now there is also a seperate airport update as well which i believe deals with the other issue

Hi,
Can you say where the seperate Airport update can be found Mr. Blur..?
voicebox.

sieb · Jul 15, 2005, 01:37 AM

Apple Software Update....

voicebox · Jul 15, 2005, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by sieb

Apple Software Update....

Thanks sieb,
First place I looked - it's not showing on my machine ... Hold up .... there it is - at last!! Better late than never I suppose!!
Thanks again!
voicebox

eddiecatflap · Jul 15, 2005, 04:56 AM

search does seem to be a LOT better , ok i get the beachball but it only last 3-4 seconds then boom ! i get all the results

it used to crash my mac , so i'm quite happy with 10.4.2

Kenstee · 07:29 PM

Just did the upgrade. No issues. No problems. On a PB 12 Rev A.

Used my tried and true update method. Ran Disk Doctor and Cocktail before upgrade. Used the stand-alone Combo Updater- a must for no problems IMHO. And ran Cocktail after upgrade. Also, unpluged my Ethernet connection and backup HD before the upgrade.

Initial boot after the upgrade - as always - takes way more time than usual ( a minute or three.) But, don't worry.

After upgrade:
- Spotlight seems faster
- Airport woking just fine with my Netgear Wireless Router
- Didn't notice any Safari speed improvements. Still using Firefox.
- No apparent changes in Dashboard I can tell (aside from Widget Manager)
- And the all important system "snappyness?" Can't tell yet.

off/lang · Jul 17, 2005, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Just did the upgrade. No issues. No problems. On a PB 12 Rev A.

Used my tried and true update method. Ran Disk Doctor and Cocktail before upgrade. Used the stand-alone Combo Updater- a must for no problems IMHO. And ran Cocktail after upgrade. Also, unpluged my Ethernet connection and backup HD before the upgrade.

Initial boot after the upgrade - as always - takes way more time than usual ( a minute or three.) But, don't worry.

After upgrade:
- Spotlight seems faster
- Airport woking just fine with my Netgear Wireless Router
- Didn't notice any Safari speed improvements. Still using Firefox.
- No apparent changes in Dashboard I can tell (aside from Widget Manager)
- And the all important system "snappyness?" Can't tell yet.

Wow. That's a lot of work put into a double-point revision. I usually just hit the Install button.

Randman · Jul 17, 2005, 12:36 AM

Yes. Go to 10.4.2.

CharlesS · Jul 17, 2005, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by off/lang

Wow. That's a lot of work put into a double-point revision. I usually just hit the Install button.

It's a downright harmful regimen. Norton Disk Doctor has been known to cause all sorts of damage to OS X disks. Even Symantec admits it's not compatible with 10.4 and higher (being that they discontinued it before Tiger's release). Running any disk utility that's not designed for Tiger is asking for trouble, because Tiger uses some features of HFS+ that earlier versions didn't, and NDD had problems even under 10.3 and earlier.

As for using Cocktail, why that's just a grrrrrrreat idea. Make sure to update the prebinding for those files that the update is just going to overwrite anyway. And afterwards, make sure to update the prebinding again, even though Software Update already did that automatically at the end of the installation.

Kenstee · Jul 17, 2005, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

It's a downright harmful regimen. Norton Disk Doctor has been known to cause all sorts of damage to OS X disks. Even Symantec admits it's not compatible with 10.4 and higher (being that they discontinued it before Tiger's release). Running any disk utility that's not designed for Tiger is asking for trouble, because Tiger uses some features of HFS+ that earlier versions didn't, and NDD had problems even under 10.3 and earlier.

As for using Cocktail, why that's just a grrrrrrreat idea. Make sure to update the prebinding for those files that the update is just going to overwrite anyway. And afterwards, make sure to update the prebinding again, even though Software Update already did that automatically at the end of the installation.

On Point 1: My mistake. I ran Disk Warrior not Disk Doctor.

On Point 2: Actually, since it was updated for 10.4, Cocktail does not do a prebind routine anymore to my knowledge. I use it primarily to run cron routines, clean caches and repair permissions. Sorry to hear that meets with your disapproval!

My system works great. And I've NEVER had any issues/problems with any upgrades. So, I stand by my procedure.

CharlesS · Jul 17, 2005, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

On Point 1: My mistake. I ran Disk Warrior not Disk Doctor.

Okay, nothing wrong with that, although running DW for every software update would be quite excessive.

I use it primarily to run cron routines

On 10.4.x, there's nothing in the crontab by default anymore. The periodic tasks are taken care of automatically by launchd.

Plus, rotating some log files would not affect a software installation in any way.

clean caches

More specifically, deleting the LaunchServices cache. This file contains lots of information regarding application-document binding, information which will be lost when the cache file is deleted. Therefore, the LaunchServices cache really should not be deleted unless you're having problems.

Plus, the LaunchServices cache is extremely unlikely to affect a software installation in any way.

and repair permissions.

My stance on this one is well known already. Software Update and Installer both do their stuff using root privileges, so they do not care what the permissions on the disk are. So basically the extent of what you are doing is changing the permissions of some files you are going to overwrite anyway. There is absolutely zero chance of this affecting the software installation in any way. And running it afterward is equally pointless, unless you think Apple is incompetent enough to release a software update with permissions fubared enough to cause something not to work, something I've never seen in 4 years of using OS X.

Basically, it's a waste of time.

My system works great. And I've NEVER had any issues/problems with any upgrades. So, I stand by my procedure.

And I don't do any of that crap, and my system also works great. And I've also never had any issues or problems with any upgrades. So I stand by not doing your procedure.

This is what I should have done. I should have made one of those "system maintenance" programs. All I would have had to do would have been to make a few thin AppleScript wrappers around basic Terminal commands, and I would have made so much money from people who don't really know what this stuff does that I'd be rich by now...

Kenstee · Jul 17, 2005, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

And I don't do any of that crap, and my system also works great. And I've also never had any issues or problems with any upgrades.

Enjoy!

Hi I'm Ben · Jul 17, 2005, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Enjoy!

Don't worry you keep laughing. Because I'm in the same boat with that guy. Enjoy wasting your time taxing your computer for god knows what reasons.

Kenstee · Jul 17, 2005, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

Don't worry you keep laughing. Because I'm in the same boat with that guy. Enjoy wasting your time taxing your computer for god knows what reasons.

Maybe you two guys should visit the MacNN Anger Management forum more often! You've made your point man. Good god! Chill! Get on with life!

kcmac · Jul 17, 2005, 11:54 PM

Good lord. To each their own. I always have had good luck eating ice cream while I update. Never had a problem.

sminch · Jul 18, 2005, 12:13 AM

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

kcmac, i want to buy your icecream.

sminch

CharlesS · Jul 18, 2005, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by kcmac

Good lord. To each their own. I always have had good luck eating ice cream while I update. Never had a problem.

Yes, therefore we should recommend to all newbies on MacNN to make sure to eat ice cream before and after every software update!! Or else!!

kcmac · Jul 18, 2005, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Yes, therefore we should recommend to all newbies on MacNN to make sure to eat ice cream before and after every software update!! Or else!!

Man, this really is a sore spot for you.

I remember back when OS X first came out. Nobody really knew much how it worked and some of us (like me) got our first taste and fear of the terminal to solve a few things.

Who knows when the permissions thing became really popular but there was a time when it did seem to make sense. Or at least there was nobody that could or did dispute that it may help.

Today, there is some fairly good evidence that it may not be necessary at all. Some of this is due to things Apple has added.

Is anyone starting a thread begging and urging people to do it? No. Is it wrong if someone wants to do it? No. Should we fear that people will get the impression that the Mac is a tricky deal when updating? No. Hell, they are at least using a Mac.

After they get used to OS X, they will probably discover that it really is pretty easy and maybe they don't need to verify permissions each time. Maybe they won't.

But come on. Enjoy your experience. Do to your machine what you feel is necessary in the way you feel to be correct. There is no absolute right or wrong here. For some people, this may be the only time they run maintenance. Or restart. Or shut down the machine for awhile. That ain't a bad thing. Unless they do it TO YOU.

Maybe you should consider a podcast professing the correct way to maintain, update and work with a Mac. We may find it entertaining. Could make you rich. Put your passion to a purpose with meaning.

yukon · Jul 19, 2005, 02:33 AM

Actually there is a general "right" and a "wrong" with computers, it's a binary world ;-)

Running Diskwarrior isn't bad, I haven't used it in a while, I would but I'm not having any problems and I don't want to introduce any with new hardware, just running disk checks every once in a while. In my opinion, Apple updates have gone downhill (excluding the problems around system 7.5), it seems like every update breaks something, usually AirPort, and there are other known issues....sorta like when you install a security update off Windows Update and find that whatever it was to fix it actually disabled, or explorer won't stop hanging.

Basically, the updates IMHO are now a crapshoot, they won't bring down the system but they might break something used enough to need a reinstall, so we need a list of things to prevent problems, like system 7....Zap the PRAM (clear it entirely, techtool or cuda), rebuild the desktop, remove a dozen system preferences (General Preferences, Finder Preferences, etc), run Disk First Aid, and update with extensions off. Repairing permissions before and after updates, setting defaults in open firmware, running the cron tasks to get the locate database updated and the logs rotated, does any of that do anything to prevent problems? Probably not in almost all cases....but computer trouble sucks, might as well pray while updating the system.

I used to complain about Windows 95 and 98, update a clean install to the latest version and you would get a completely inoperable system. But in the updates around 9.0.4, I started wondering about all the new issues, never did update to 9.1 or above. Got burned somewhere in the 10.1.x updates (10.1.3? I forget), now I don't update in general. 10.4.1 had a number of reported issues so I waited, 10.4.2 has been clear so far I'm told, other than the airport above, and I believe someone said it erased their Oxford 911 firewire drive but I can't point to where I saw that. I'll install next time I reboot.

kcmac · Jul 19, 2005, 08:07 PM

Okay. I take it back. CharlesS is right.

Dog Like Nature · Jul 19, 2005, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by sminch

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

kcmac, i want to buy your icecream.

sminch

http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html
Of course, the real word is "specious"!

sminch · Jul 20, 2005, 07:20 PM

dammit, that's the last time i trust the simpsons archive. i expect my sources of simpsons quotes to be typo free, people...

sminch

BWhaler · Jul 24, 2005, 02:30 AM

It's got hundreds of bugs fixes. It's free. Why would you not?