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Plant7575 · Aug 14, 2005, 02:51 PM

I originally posted this question under Applications, because I thought this was a Office 2001 problem. But I have done some more tests, and I now think that this is a problem with the Classic Environment

I am running OS 10.3.9 on an imac G5. I have set up multiple accounts for me (the administrator) and my family members.

We are running Office 2001 under the Classic Environment.

I can use Word 2001 in my account with no problem. If my daughter uses Word in her account after a clean boot of the whole computer, she has no problems. But once I use Word in my account, Word will crash in her account every time. I can go back to my account and still use Word without problems. The only thing that will allow her to use Word in her account is to reboot the whole computer. (Rebooting the Classic environment does not help.)

The same problem occurs with Excel.

The details of the crash in Word: The first time that she clicks on Word in the Dock, it boots the Classic Environment, then boots Word. She can open a file, but then Word freezes (except for mouse movement. After Force quitting Word and Classic (must quit both to unfreeze), if she clicks on Word again, Classic boots, but the computer freezes right at the end of the Classic Booting process.

The details of the crash in Excel: Every time she clicks on Excel in the Dock, it boots the Classic Environment, then boots Excel, but as soon as she clicks on the File menu to open a file, Excel freezes.

To see if this was an Office 2001 problem, I tried running an old version of Photoshiop (3.0) that I still had installed. Same basic problem occurs with some variation. I can run the old Photoshop under my account, but ever time my daughter tries to run the old Photoshop, either it (on the first try after a reboot) or the Classic Environment (on subsequent tries) freezes.

I have used Disk First Aid to repair permissions. That did not help. I searched Microsoft's Support site, but found nothing on this. I don't know what else to do.

Any suggestions?

Big Mac · Aug 15, 2005, 10:34 AM

This does not happen on my machines. It may be an extension issue - you can try booting with extensions off through the Advanced tab of the Classic pane. When I had a Classic freezing issue I could not fix, I had to install a new Classic System Folder. Until you figure out the problem, may I suggest trying out NeoOfficeJ? I have been very happy with its Office compatibility and its performance on my DP 2.0.

Plant7575 · Aug 15, 2005, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

When I had a Classic freezing issue I could not fix, I had to install a new Classic System Folder.

How do you install just a new Classic System Folder?

I got 3 disks with my G5 (IMac G5 Install Discs 1 and 2, and Additional Software and Hardware Test). I looked at the Read Me on the Additional Software Disc, and it says that the Additional Software is Mac OS 9. It does not say Classic. My computer is not compatible with the full OS 9, and I don't want to do a full OS X reinstall.

Chuckit · Aug 15, 2005, 07:38 PM

Just install a new OS 9 System Folder and tell Classic to use that in its prefpane.

Plant7575 · Aug 15, 2005, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Just install a new OS 9 System Folder and tell Classic to use that in its prefpane.

Sorry, but I need a little more instruction that that. What disk to I get the System Folder from? How do I tell it to install only a new OS 9 System Folder, and not all of OS X?

Also, what is prefpane? and where do I find it?

I was pretty handy with OS 9 (and its predecessors), but I am new to OS X -- very early on the learing curve.

wataru · Aug 16, 2005, 02:51 AM

OS 9 came bundled with your Mac on the first Software Restore disc. Put it in, and then use the Finder's Go To Folder command. Type "/Volumes/iMac Restore CD/.images" and click Go (substitute whatever the disc's name is for "iMac Restore CD"). Open the OS9General.dmg file to mount the disk image. Copy the System Folder off the disk image.

"Prefpane" is short for preference pane. That's what the individual settings areas are called in System Preferences. The Classic prefpane is where you deal with Classic settings, in System Preferences.

Big Mac · Aug 16, 2005, 04:12 AM

In addition to procedure wataru describes, Classic should also be found on the Additional Software/HT disc. There should be two read me files on that disc, one for Hardware Test and one for the Classic installer. Doubleclick the Classic installer and when you click to install it will place a new Classic folder on your drive. I'm pretty sure your Additonal Hardware disc should be like my DP 2.0's, but Apple does like to change these things around every so often.

Plant7575 · Aug 16, 2005, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

In addition to procedure wataru describes, Classic should also be found on the Additional Software/HT disc. There should be two read me files on that disc, one for Hardware Test and one for the Classic installer. Doubleclick the Classic installer and when you click to install it will place a new Classic folder on your drive. I'm pretty sure your Additonal Hardware disc should be like my DP 2.0's, but Apple does like to change these things around every so often.

I have this disk, rather than the Software Restore Disk. Before seeing this post, I called Apple, and they told me to remove three files from my System Folder (Classic, Classic Support, Classic Support UI), then reinstall them from this disk.

Did that -- Didn't help.

After seeing your post, I tried moving the System Folder to the Trash, or to another folder or renaming it, so that I could install a new one. I was forbidden to do any of these, with the message that the System Folder was required. Apparently those three files (and the Classic preferences in the OS X preferences folder) are all that can be removed. I'm not sure if there is any way to remove and replace the whole system folder. I wonder if it was installed as part of OS X, even though it is used by OS 9.

I appreciate all who have suggested ideas, but I am still looking for a solution to this problem.

wataru · Aug 16, 2005, 10:37 PM

System Folder is not required. What exactly did the message say?

Plant7575 · Aug 16, 2005, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by wataru

System Folder is not required. What exactly did the message say?

When I tried to move the System Folder to the Trash so that I could replace it with a newly-installed version, I got the message:

"The operation can not be completed because item "System Folder" is required by the System."

wataru · Aug 16, 2005, 11:12 PM

Was Classic running at the time?

Plant7575 · Aug 16, 2005, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by wataru

Was Classic running at the time?

Nope.

wataru · Aug 17, 2005, 01:18 AM

I can't get my system to tell me that about my System Folder, so I don't know what to tell you. Are you sure it says "is necessary" and not "is in use"? Because those are two completely different things. If it says "in use," try rebooting and make sure Classic does not start automatically.

Big Mac · Aug 17, 2005, 02:08 AM

You got this message because the OS will not let you trash (or perhaps even move) the classic System Folder while it is selected in the System Preferences Classic pane as the System Folder of choice. However, you should definitely be able to create or copy a fresh System Folder to the same drive without any issue. Now once you do this by using the Additional Software CD's Classic installer (or by copying a System Folder from another source), go to the Classic pane of System Preferences and choose the new System Folder. Once this is done, you'll be able to trash the old one.

Plant7575 · Aug 17, 2005, 09:15 PM

SUCCESS!!! I called Apple a second time, and this time got somebody who knew how to troubleshoot. (The last guy knew only a little more than me.)

The main problem turned out to be the Apple Menu Options Control Panel. Turning that off allowed Classic to boot in all user accounts. All of my OS 9 programs (except Excel 2001 – see below) now work in all accounts.

Excel continued to lock up in my daughter’s account, but worked fine in my (admin) account. Turning on “Use Mac OS 9 Preferernces from our Home” fixed the Excel Problem. Apparently, Excel had problems when the preferences were stored in one central System Folder, but when the preferences are stored in each user’s library, it works fine.

It is possible that some of the other things that I tried also contributed to this success. The thing I did just before zeroing in on Apple Menu Options as the problem was to repair the OS X preferences in ALL accounts. I had done this in my (admin) account, but I had not realized that this should be done in each account.

I found it interesting that it was Apple Menu Options was the problem. I vaguely recall a problem that I had several years ago (and a couple of computers and OS levels ago – maybe OS 7??) with intermittent crashes. I struggled for months with the problem until I read somewhere that Apple Menu Options was notoriously buggy. When I turned it off, my problems went away.

So this is deja vu. I continue to be impressed at how well Classic mimics the original OS 9 – bugs, crashes and all.

Thanks for all of your help. I am relatively new to OS X. I learned a lot along the way.

seanc · Aug 18, 2005, 05:05 PM

Classic is os 9, is it not?

wataru · Aug 18, 2005, 09:14 PM

Classic is the name for OS X's compatibility layer for OS 9, so you can't "boot in Classic" or anything. But since it's not emulation, yeah, it basically is OS 9. Not at all surprising it has OS 9's bugs.