[Spliff]

Spotlight seems incapable of locating files in /System/Library. Is this by design or is there a way I can force it to index that directory?

[Thinine]

It's by design. I don't remember where but I think there's a file that controls where Spotlight doesn't index by default.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by Thinine

It's by design.

Okay then, does anyone know a search app that can search /System/Library the way the Finder could in 10.3?

Oh, and btw, Spotlight f**king sucks donkey balls.

[MartiNZ]

You can add /System/Library to the Finder search locations by clicking 'Other' in the bar in the search window ... but it doesn't seem reliable. It couldn't find Finder in Core Services for me, even when directed straight to that folder!

[Scott-G]

There is a freeware app called Highlight that will let you add system folder to the spotlight index.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Okay then, does anyone know a search app that can search /System/Library the way the Finder could in 10.3?

Oh, and btw, Spotlight f**king sucks donkey balls.

We'll never hear the end of it.

"Spotlight sucks donkey balls because I have to sift through a bunch of files that don't pertain to my search"

"Spotlight sucks donkey balls because it can't find files that nobody searches for inside /System/Library"

Christ...it sucks donkey balls to be Apple. Can't make anyone happy. Allow /System/Library/ to be searched by default and everyone will scream bloody murder when they see 'loginwindow', 'kerberosagent', 'systemuiserver' and 'ATIRadeon.kext' files pollute their search results. Don't index /System/Library/ by default and people like Spliff will break into a tantrum because they actually want to search these files (which shouldn't be touched or even looked at by normal users).

Everything outside the user's Home folder should be OFF LIMITS limit by DEFAULT. I'm even tempted to say that ~/Library should be off limits by default.

Spotlight is for metadata. If you want to search by file name, use another program.

[Chuckit]

There is no question that you should be able to search everything on your system. If they have to include a toggle or you have to specifically include these directories, fine, but having things that are simply unsearchable is a horrible idea.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

There is no question that you should be able to search everything on your system. If they have to include a toggle or you have to specifically include these directories, fine, but having things that are simply unsearchable is a horrible idea.

It's a protection thing: you don't want most people rooting around in /System, for their own good. If you're rooting around in there, you should learn how to use locate and find from the CLI.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

There is no question that you should be able to search everything on your system. If they have to include a toggle or you have to specifically include these directories, fine, but having things that are simply unsearchable is a horrible idea.

Nothing's unsearchable if you use the right tools.

Spotlight, however, is a metadata search tool. Not a file name search tool (although it can be used as a filename search tool, people are usually disappointed that 'irrelevant'* files pop up in the search results.)

* Irrelevant to people that look at the file name and think "hey, this file isn't what I searched for, the file name doesn't even have the keyword I'm searching for" unaware that the file hold metadata that fits the search criteria.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Nothing's unsearchable if you use the right tools.

Spotlight, however, is a metadata search tool. Not a file name search tool (although it can be used as a filename search tool, people are usually disappointed that 'irrelevant'* files pop up in the search results.)

I'm fine with that, except Spotlight is the system search tool. If they had included the old Find command as well as Spotlight, it would be acceptable to have a more focused metadata tool. But Spotlight has taken over the functionality of the old Find without actually replacing all of its functionality.

And I don't get pissed about "irrelevant" matches like this except that it can't be a little more intelligent in its sorting. Mainly it annoys me that you have to go through so many hoops just to search standard directories.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'm fine with that, except Spotlight is the system search tool. If they had included the old Find command as well as Spotlight, it would be acceptable to have a more focused metadata tool. But Spotlight has taken over the functionality of the old Find without actually replacing all of its functionality.

And I don't get pissed about "irrelevant" matches like this except that it can't be a little more intelligent in its sorting. Mainly it annoys me that you have to go through so many hoops just to search standard directories.

The thing is is that people are clutching to the old ways of doing things. The old way was to search a hierarchical file system by file name. The new way (and I agree that Apple is unjustly forcing this onto people) is that location and file name doesn't matter...it's what's inside the document/file that matters.

Instead of using a pull method (which would never work according to what I'm seeing here on MacNN), Apple is using a push method. Apple is pushing this new way of doing things onto people so that the transition to a metadata-rich OS is over quicker.

The new way of searching isn't supposed to replace all of the previous 'Find' tool functionalities...whether or not you think this is fair is another story.

These are extremely confusing times for everyone. For the last 30 years, people have grown accustomed to a hierarchical file system. Starting with Be (and now OS X), we're confronted with a new way of browsing files. The big problem right now is that we've got both. We've got the old hierarchical way of browsing and the new indexed metadata way of browsing tacked on.

People are freaking out because they don't understand what Spotlight is about and they're still struck with the hierarchical and spatial way of browsing mindset. The sooner the transition is over, the better.

It'll leave a lot of people back in the same state they were when they first started to learn what a computer was...but it's for the better. They'll learn the new way and be happier once they understand the concept.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

The thing is is that people are clutching to the old ways of doing things. The old way was to search a hierarchical file system by file name. The new way (and I agree that Apple is unjustly forcing this onto people) is that location and file name doesn't matter...it's what's inside the document/file that matters.

Instead of using a pull method (which would never work according to what I'm seeing here on MacNN), Apple is using a push method. Apple is pushing this new way of doing things onto people so that the transition to a metadata-rich OS is over quicker.

I'm not sure if you're talking to me (it looks like you are), but I never argued against any of this. I think a metadata search is fantastic, with filename being one piece of metadata. I wholeheartedly support that. But the implementation of Spotlight is bad.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

The new way of searching isn't supposed to replace all of the previous 'Find' tool functionalities...whether or not you think this is fair is another story.

Then Apple just crippled the OS for no good reason, which is even more retarded than simply having a poor search implementation.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

But the implementation of Spotlight is bad.

No doubt. Nothing's ever perfect when it's first released. How many people said "wtf is this ****" when they realized you couldn't create a folder inside a folder and create a tree hierarchy using System 1's MFS (which was then replaced by HFS).

Spotlight's going to improve.

Yes, it's too bad Apple didn't provide another tool to make up for the loss of 'Find' features. Use the CLI. If one's bold enough to play inside /System, he should be man (lol, I crack myself up) enough to use the CLI when doing so.

[CharlesS]

Ooooookay. Now, on to answer the original poster's actual question.

Unfortunately, Highlight is not the solution you want. While it will cause the folder to be indexed, the Finder will still sometimes look at the hard-coded exclusion list and say "whoops, I shouldn't search this." Therefore, you need to add it to the inclusion list. You can do this by editing /.Spotlight-V100/_rules.plist. It's an ordinary XML plist file - just add /System to the array as a string. Then index the System directory with mdimport or Highlight or whatever, and you're good to go.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Ooooookay. Now, on to answer the original poster's actual question.

Unfortunately, Highlight is not the solution you want. While it will cause the folder to be indexed, the Finder will still sometimes look at the hard-coded exclusion list and say "whoops, I shouldn't search this." Therefore, you need to add it to the inclusion list. You can do this by editing /.Spotlight-V100/_rules.plist. It's an ordinary XML plist file - just add /System to the array as a string. Then index the System directory with mdimport or Highlight or whatever, and you're good to go.

Charles,

Thanks for that. I'll give it a try.

Can anyone tell what Terminal command I should use for searching my hard drive, for both visible and invisible files?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

No doubt. Nothing's ever perfect when it's first released. How many people said "wtf is this ****" when they realized you couldn't create a folder inside a folder and create a tree hierarchy using System 1's MFS (which was then replaced by HFS).

Spotlight's going to improve.

If it was not good enough to replace the old functionality, they should not have replaced the old functionality with it. There should have been Find, and then there should have been Spotlight as well. Maybe find could have optionally tied into Spotlight. They could have killed the old one once Spotlight had improved enough to pick up the slack.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Yes, it's too bad Apple didn't provide another tool to make up for the loss of 'Find' features. Use the CLI. If one's bold enough to play inside /System, he should be man (lol, I crack myself up) enough to use the CLI when doing so.

Even if so, it's retarded to force people to use the CLI to search in the /Developer folder. Sure, I could, but it's a dumb limitation.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Can anyone tell what Terminal command I should use for searching my hard drive, for both visible and invisible files?

For casual queries, locate is a good choice — it uses an index, so it's fast, but it won't find the latest additions until they're indexed. Otherwise, find will do it. (Terminal doesn't respect Finder visibility settings, so invisible doesn't matter.)

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Even if so, it's retarded to force people to use the CLI to search in the /Developer folder. Sure, I could, but it's a dumb limitation.

It's actually /Developer/ADC Reference Library that doesn't get indexed. And I agree, this is really dumb. However, you can add it to the include list by modifying /.Spotlight-V100/_rules.plist just as with my previous suggestion. This is the way I recommend doing it, since otherwise, even after using mdimport -f to import the directory, searching it with the Finder is still unreliable.

[Weyland-Yutani]

to Chuckit in this thread. I agree 100%.

Granted Spotlight is in its infancy so to speak, but yet again Apple introduces a technology that is really inconsistent and really not ready. Find in OS 9 found everything, even hidden files IIRC. Sherlock did too. Now suddenly Find is gone and replaced with something that doesn't even offer the basic functionality of the thing it replaced. Spotlight is a search engine and it really needs to work as one too.

Some people think Spotlight is the future of navigation. Yeah well, not if it continues like this it's not. One has to be able to *trust* that the search engine can find *anything* that you want found and exists.

Seems the Finder is still king.

cheers

W-Y