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Jacob · Sep 7, 2005, 09:08 PM

Okay, as soon as I thought I figured out where Apple was going with their interface, they changed it again. We have seen transparent stripes, white, 'garageband' look, brushed metal, chalk white mail, and now plain grey in the new iTunes 5. So what gives? Why plague OS X with inconsistant interface schemes? It's not...really...a...BAD thing, but why not have a consistant look for the whole OS? Anyone have any comments?

awaspaas · Sep 7, 2005, 10:10 PM

Somebody needs to post a screenshot with as many different window styles as possible. I would do it but I don't really care that much.

Franz · Sep 8, 2005, 02:03 AM

It looks like Apple is moving towards the unified toolbar interface. I think there will be two variations of that - the gray one (Mail.app, System Preferences, Help Viewer) and the dark gray (iTunes) one which will replace brushed metal.

JLL · Sep 8, 2005, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Franz

It looks like Apple is moving towards the unified toolbar interface. I think there will be two variations of that - the gray one (Mail.app, System Preferences, Help Viewer) and the dark gray (iTunes) one which will replace brushed metal.

That's what I think too. Apple usually introduces new looks and new functionality in a few apps before making them available everywhere.

PS: a consistent user interface does not necessarily mean the same look in every app.

OreoCookie · Sep 8, 2005, 04:58 AM

I like the new iTunes interface, it's a lot less clunky and more efficient than the old one

Let's hope Apple gets its act together and converges its different GUIs in Leopard.

milhous · Sep 8, 2005, 10:25 AM

yep I'm with you on this. iTunes5 is a clear indication that brushed metal is going out the door.

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 8, 2005, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Franz

It looks like Apple is moving towards the unified toolbar interface. I think there will be two variations of that - the gray one (Mail.app, System Preferences, Help Viewer) and the dark gray (iTunes) one which will replace brushed metal.

That'll be the day...unfortunately, as soon as the unified look becomes wide spread, Apple/Jobs will start trickling in a new window interface that will once again break the idea of a homogeneous interface.

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 8, 2005, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by milhous

yep I'm with you on this. iTunes5 is a clear indication that brushed metal is going out the door.

It's not a clear indication...but lets hope it is an indication. Safari and iTunes *could* be indications that window borders (introduced by brushed-metal interfaces) are on their way out.

I'm hoping for the unified light gray look...but I wouldn't mind if there was a dark-gray in the mix. But everything has to begin to use the same interface...and soon. The idea that there are brushed-metal apps, dark gray unified apps, light gray unifiedapps, Aqua apps, a wood panels app (Garage Band), Pro look, etc. out there makes me want to cry.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Sep 8, 2005, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

Somebody needs to post a screenshot with as many different window styles as possible. I would do it but I don't really care that much.

This is what I got. From top to bottom, System Preferences, iTunes5, Finder (window mode), Finder (browser mode) and GarageBand. Am I missing any?

Stradlater · Sep 8, 2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

Am I missing any?

Final Cut Pro/Motion/Soundtrack

cybergoober · Sep 8, 2005, 12:56 PM

You're also missing Mail.app

Stradlater · Sep 8, 2005, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by cybergoober

You're also missing Mail.app

Mail and SysPrefs use the same interface.

OreoCookie · Sep 8, 2005, 12:58 PM

ProApps are missing.

But thanks for the nice juxtaposition.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Sep 8, 2005, 01:31 PM

Yup, missed the FCP interface..I hope that's IT!

tooki · Sep 8, 2005, 02:31 PM

I happen to like brushed metal just because it lets me move windows around by grabbing any metal area, rather than being limited to the title bar.

tooki

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Sep 8, 2005, 02:47 PM

nü-metal (did I coin that?) behaves the same way.

:dragonflypro: · Sep 8, 2005, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

Well, at least the top 2 are the most usable.

If that is the direction, it is at least the right one, IMHO.

SMacTech · Sep 8, 2005, 04:45 PM

But what's up with the inward slant at the bottom of the iTunes window? Like they are trying to mimic the iTunes phone beveled shape.

tooki · Sep 8, 2005, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by :dragonflypro:

Well, at least the top 2 are the most usable.

How are any of those window styles "less" usable than the top two? I don't see any real usability problem with any of those designs. Only the inconsistency between apps is disconcerting.

tooki

OreoCookie · Sep 8, 2005, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by tooki

How are any of those window styles "less" usable than the top two? I don't see any real usability problem with any of those designs. Only the inconsistency between apps is disconcerting.

tooki

True, but I also think the top two (+ ProApps) are more efficient.

tooki · Sep 8, 2005, 06:36 PM

There's no real difference between them. The controls are the same size and in the same place. The top two and the last two all have expanded draggable areas. Beyond that, the differences are really just differences in color.

tooki

Big Mac · Sep 8, 2005, 06:49 PM

In respect to interface consistency (or lack thereof), I think we can treat Garage Band and the toolbar-less Finder as special cases. The toolbar-less Finder was a concession to those of us who disliked browser mode, and Garage Band is supposed to replicate wood paneled audio equipment. I do believe Apple has to choose one style of metal and attempt earnestly to stick with it.

loki74 · Sep 8, 2005, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

True, but I also think the top two (+ ProApps) are more efficient.

Agreed. People complain about the teeny weeny titlebars on the ProApps, but I think they're great. (Although I like the Cocoa pro widgets better than the Carbon ones) I wish they would let other (rigourously qualified) 3rd parties use the ProKit framework--I think that my 3d apps would be much nicer with it!

But ProApps aside, the top two are definately the best. A lof of people don't like the merged titlebar/toolbar look, but I think it looks alright. Could be more of a shiny type of plastic (not aqua though; save that for the buttons) but whatever.

cla · Sep 8, 2005, 07:41 PM

An important aspect of consistency is to provide a predictable user interface. The interactive elements in these different designs do look the same, behave the same and have the same locations.

On the contrary, it could be argued that different window designs for different applications or different domains of use (creative, communicative a s o) is actually a good thing—allowing a user to identify an application even if he or she is unable to see the content of the window.
I'd be surprised if user testing would show an efficiency drop in these "multi-cultural" environments.

On the other hand it could also be argued that some of these window designs are so utterly bad that the interactive elements are hard to distinguish.

cla · Sep 8, 2005, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

...a new window interface that will once again break the idea of a homogeneous interface.

Homogeneous interfaces has never been one of Apple's design principles.

MartiNZ · Sep 8, 2005, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by loki74

But ProApps aside, the top two are definately the best. A lof of people don't like the merged titlebar/toolbar look, but I think it looks alright. Could be more of a shiny type of plastic (not aqua though; save that for the buttons) but whatever.

I like the merged look, as long as the toolbar can still be customised and hidden, e.g. Mail vs. System Preferences. Denying us window viewing options is just taking it one step further.

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Sep 9, 2005, 12:51 AM

I think Tiger Mail has the best look. It is the most neutral.

OreoCookie · Sep 9, 2005, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

I think Tiger Mail has the best look. It is the most neutral.

Ditto. Just make the buttons prettier

Geobunny · Sep 9, 2005, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

This is what I got. From top to bottom, System Preferences, iTunes5, Finder (window mode), Finder (browser mode) and GarageBand. Am I missing any?

Quicktime Player....ironically the one that started this whole debacle way back in the days of OS 9 (circa '98 I think). I seem to remember a similar outcry back then too!

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 9, 2005, 07:38 PM

Out of all the Apple OS X apps, only a couple misbehave in obvious ways...'lo and behold, it's the ONE MOST IMPORTANT app on OS X and the ONE MOST IMPORTANT app for Apple's dear little iPod.

I think the Finder team and the iTunes team are forbidden to talk to the rest of the OS X teams who actually 'have a clue'. I don't know who comes up with the interface ideas for the Finder and iTunes but they should be slapped then fired.

1. The toolbar button is not meant to toggle between Aqua Classic Finder mode and Brushed Metal Browser mode. It's meant to show and hide the toolbar. Why is Apple trying to confuse people with this, I don't know.

2. The fit-to-content button is meant to fit to content. Some will argue that the content is the playing song...but I disagree...the content is the files listed in the library or playlist. Double-click a playlist to spawn a new window and even *that* window conveniently grays out the fit-to-content button...Apple, I salute your shitty iTunes team.

3. OK and Cancel buttons are not acceptable buttons in OS X...and they're especially not acceptable in the Preference window.