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Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 05:53 AM

Hoping you guys can help with this...

Had two 200 Gb LaCie FW drives in a RAID mirror config. Power cut made the RAID fail (I was on a UPS but it'd decided not to bother lighting up its low battery warning light so failed).

Bought two more LaCie FW drives with a view to putting the old data on them and gaining some space, bought a copy of Tiger (I was on Jaguar) while I was at it as it seemed like a good idea to finally upgrade OS while I was at it.

So, current config is:
10.4.2
1 x 80 Gb internal HD (OS on this), labelled "Macintosh".
2 x 400 Gb LaCie FW mirrored as "Main".
1 x 200 Gb LaCie FW (segment of old RAID) labelled as "RAID".
1 x 200 Gb LaCie FW labelled as "Untitled" (freshly formatted HFS+ before attempting rescue).

I'm having trouble getting my data off "RAID" over to "Main".

So far...

Tried a straight copy in Finder (drag and drop). Finder hangs.
Tried a straight copy in Terminal (cp * /Volumes/Main/). Terminal hangs.

Tried to get the data off with Disk Warrior. Managed to do this using the DW preview window when booted of the CD (wouldn't work when used in normal boot and Finder is involved). DW doesn't let you copy to a RAID when booted off the CD, so the data got copied to "Untitled".
I figured I could then copy the data off "Untitled" to "Main". Not so - Finder's still hanging, Terminal's still hanging.
I now have two HDs with the same 170 Gb of data on them, neither of which will allow me to put the data where I actually want it (on the "Main" RAID).

I've been through permissions on the HDs with data on them.
They seemed to have been set to:
Owner: Doofy, r/w.
Group: staff, r/w.
Other: r.

However, I noticed that files I've created recently on 10.4.2 have the group as "Doofy" (change in the permissions due to the ACL implementation?), so set the required files to that group too.

Anyone got any ideas as to how to get the required files to where I want them to be? Anyone got any ideas as to what's causing the problem?

Any help much appreciated - this is driving me nuts!

OreoCookie · Sep 20, 2005, 07:30 AM

I'm having bit of trouble to understand you here: so the volume RAID failed? What kind of RAID was it? Mirroring (RAID 1)? Striping (RAID 0)? (You just mention `segment of old RAID'.)

And your sizes don't quite match … are the two Main drives 400 GB drives (as in the list) or 200 GB drives (as in the text)?

If your old RAID (which you dubbed RAID) was a RAID 1 (striping), then erasing the old data erased every hope of getting back your data. If it was mirrored, then you should be fine.

So please post some more details …

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 07:55 AM

OK, I'll see if I can be clearer...

(everything except the internal 80 Gb drive is an external FW drive)
Old setup:

1 x 80 Gb internal ("Macintosh") - boot drive.
2 x 200 Gb mirrored ("RAID").

Cause:
Power failure took out a segment in the mirrored RAID.

New setup:

1 x 80 Gb internal ("Macintosh") - boot drive.
2 x 400 Gb mirrored ("Main") - newly purchased as somewhere to put the data off the old 200 Gb raid.

The old 200 Gb RAID is now two individual disks:

1 x 200 Gb segment of old raid mirror (still labelled "RAID").
1 x 200 Gb non-raid ("Untitled") - ex-member of "RAID", had to repartition it as it wouldn't even mount, RAID wouldn't automatically rebuild, drive wouldn't allow me to add it back into the array.

170 Gb of data is on both the 200 Gb drives - I managed to copy it over to "Untitled" from the remaining segment of the "RAID" volume using Disk Warrior preview. This data is identical on both drives.

However... ...I need the data on the 400 Gb "Main" volume (mirrored RAID). It won't copy. Not in Finder, not in Terminal, not in SilverKeeper, not in File Buddy. The system just hangs a few Mb in.

The only thing the data seems to have copied in is Disk Warrior CD boot mode, which doesn't recognise the 400 Gb mirror (which is where I actually want the data!).

So, basically my question is: "what on earth is preventing me from copying data from one HD to another?"

OreoCookie · Sep 20, 2005, 08:05 AM

Why don't you manually rebuild the RAID or did that fail, too?
When you launch DiskWarrior normally as an app, without booting from CD, is it able to see the RAID and the `broken RAID'?

If both, the Terminal and the Finder hang, something is wrong with the filesystem structure. If permissions were the problem, you'd see appropriate messages in the Terminal and in the Finder.

I suspect that your filesystem got badly damaged during the brown out (black out) which is the culprit here.

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Why don't you manually rebuild the RAID or did that fail, too?

Can't do it - I tried once, it failed. Now Disk Utility won't even let me add the "other" 200 Gb HD (currently standalone as "Untitled") into the array because it thinks it's already in there. The RAID status is showing "degraded" with two segments.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

When you launch DiskWarrior normally as an app, without booting from CD, is it able to see the RAID and the `broken RAID'?

Yep, sees everything.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

If both, the Terminal and the Finder hang, something is wrong with the filesystem structure. If permissions were the problem, you'd see appropriate messages in the Terminal and in the Finder.

I did see a few permissions errors coming up in Finder, Terminal and Disk Warrior. Hence going in to change the ownership on some of the files.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I suspect that your filesystem got badly damaged during the brown out (black out) which is the culprit here.

The odd thing is that I can open the files - I just can't copy them to another HD!

Example:

In Finder: /Volumes/RAID/Pictures/picture1.psd = opens in PS and Preview fine.
Copy that to /Volumes/Main/Pictures/ and the resulting copy gets a blue tinge.
Then go for an info on the original file and Finder hangs (beachball of death), requiring a reboot (force quit doesn't work).

CharlesS · Sep 20, 2005, 08:41 AM

Does something like Data Rescue work, ̛I wonder?

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Does something like Data Rescue work, ̛I wonder?

Downloaded the demo of that to see if it would, the app didn't even load up on my system.

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 08:53 AM

Now here's an odd thing...

If I copy RAID -> Main, Finder hangs.
If I copy RAID -> Macintosh (the Desktop) -> Main, everything's fine (or at least appears to be after an experiment with a couple of folders).

OreoCookie · Sep 20, 2005, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Downloaded the demo of that to see if it would, the app didn't even load up on my system.

In your reply to me, you said `DiskWarrior sees everything'

Can you copy and paste (some of) the output of the Terminal?

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

In your reply to me, you said `DiskWarrior sees everything'

DiskWarrior does see everything when in app mode.
Data Rescue (different app) won't even load.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Can you copy and paste (some of) the output of the Terminal?

I'd be glad to. Which bit? (i.e. at what point during what process?).

Following up from the "copy via internal HD works fine" post, could it be that I have a hardware problem relating to firewire? i.e. the system doesn't like both ports to be in use? Thinking about it, in my old setup I had everything hanging off one FW port. Now I'm using two.

I'm going to have to experiment with this to see what happens if I hang the lot off one port again.

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 09:38 AM

Problem solved (I think). Copying across from one FW port to the other is what's making the system hang.

Thanks for your suggestions and help guys - much appreciated.

OreoCookie · Sep 20, 2005, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

DiskWarrior does see everything when in app mode.
Data Rescue (different app) won't even load.

Thanks for the clarification.

Just one more thing, what version of DiskWarrior do you use? Only the latest version 3.03 is compatible with Tiger, earlier versions will not.

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'd be glad to. Which bit? (i.e. at what point during what process?).

The first couple of lines, something in between and the last couple of lines would be fine.

Originally Posted by Doofy

Following up from the "copy via internal HD works fine" post, could it be that I have a hardware problem relating to firewire? i.e. the system doesn't like both ports to be in use? Thinking about it, in my old setup I had everything hanging off one FW port. Now I'm using two.

I'm going to have to experiment with this to see what happens if I hang the lot off one port again.

I'm not sure this will help. Try it, it can't hurt, but you'll have better performance if you use as many FireWire ports as possible.

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Thanks for the clarification.

Just one more thing, what version of DiskWarrior do you use? Only the latest version 3.03 is compatible with Tiger, earlier versions will not.

Yep. 3.0.3 - straight out of the Apple Store yesterday.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

The first couple of lines, something in between and the last couple of lines would be fine.

I'm not sure that this is going to help much... Literally it's:

Mac:~ Doofy$ cd /Volumes/RAID/Home/
Mac:~ Doofy$ cp * /Volumes/Main/recover/
>

(same happens if specifying a single file instead of the wildcard)

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I'm not sure this will help. Try it, it can't hurt, but you'll have better performance if you use as many FireWire ports as possible.

Haven't tried it yet (got to nip out to get another FW cable). But the indications are good - no hanging if I avoid FW to FW copies/moves.

OreoCookie · Sep 20, 2005, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

...

First of all, you copy almost nothing, it only copies files in the directory you are in.

Try the following: I assume your user is an Administrator.

Code:
cd /Volumes/RAID/Home
sudo ditto * /Volumes/Main/Recover

It will ask you for a password. Enter the password of your user account. Does that work?

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

First of all, you copy almost nothing, it only copies files in the directory you are in.

It doesn't. It hangs before it's copied anything.

(I'm a messy pup - I have a few files loose in the home directory )

Thanks for the heads-up on the "ditto" command though.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Try the following: I assume your user is an Administrator.

Code:
cd /Volumes/RAID/Home
sudo ditto * /Volumes/Main/Recover

It will ask you for a password. Enter the password of your user account. Does that work?

Thanks, I'll try that in a bit.
I've just managed to pull 40 Gb off onto the internal HD (with Finder, very easily) and I'm checking integrity at the moment - don't want to risk a hang while I'm doing it.

OreoCookie · 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

It doesn't. It hangs before it's copied anything.

(I'm a messy pup - I have a few files loose in the home directory )

Thanks for the heads-up on the "ditto" command though.

It doesn't hang. It waits for user input. Probably it choked on a file with a space, nothing more. (If the output you gave me was all.)

Even if you'd manage to copy more, you would have to enter `cp -r [source dir] [target dir]'. Because `ditto' is the better alternative, I didn't go into that, though. If you have anything that includes space, you have to quote source and target.

Code:
cp -r "[source]" "[target]"

Doofy · Sep 20, 2005, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

It doesn't hang. It waits for user input. Probably it choked on a file with a space, nothing more. (If the output you gave me was all.)

That output in Terminal hangs the system somewhat (Finder becomes unusable, etc..), requiring a reboot. Not a KP, but plenty of beachballs in Finder and Safari.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Even if you'd manage to copy more, you would have to enter `cp -r [source dir] [target dir]'. Because `ditto' is the better alternative, I didn't go into that, though.

Yeah. I've been there with the -r option. No effect. I'm now pretty much convinced this is a hardware thing, although I'll try the ditto command when this file verification has finished.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

If you have anything that includes space, you have to quote source and target.

I didn't know that. Thanks.

OreoCookie · 01:23 PM

That output in Terminal hangs the system somewhat (Finder becomes unusable, etc..), requiring a reboot. Not a KP, but plenty of beachballs in Finder and Safari.

Hmmm, strange behavior.

Yeah. I've been there with the -r option. No effect. I'm now pretty much convinced this is a hardware thing, although I'll try the ditto command when this file verification has finished.

Well, it's the last resort. If that doesn't work, it's not the permissions. If none of the things works, try to take the drives out of the cases and put them in a Mac that runs Disk Warrior (and all other Alsoft apps). This way, if just the case is damaged, you could try to access your data from there.

If that doesn't work, it might really be a hardware failure as well. (I kind of suspect that at this point, but better safe than sorry.)