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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac OS X > My Firsthand Info About Leopard

My Firsthand Info About Leopard
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Aug 11, 2006, 07:23 PM
 


Okay a couple of things about this leopard preview. This is bar far the MOST UNSTABLE preview release I've every seen Apple release, bar none. And that includes betas of OS X 10.0

The good news is it's really, really, really fast. H.264 video flew, nothing lagged, the finder (you can tell it's in the middle of being redesigned) flew... Much better threaded. networking no longer shows you spinning beach ball..

Spotlight (the application version under Applications) gives you a taste of how the new finder is going to be, when you search for images. You could resize previews on the fly, and spotlight really, really shines, its' super fast.

Bad things. Everything crashes. Dashboard crashed, made a webclipping, crashed dashboard and safari. Went to yahoo.com safari crashed again (it is faster though....)

IChat is currently FUGGLY as all.. it looks like they didn't finish they UI or ripped out the good theme at the last minute before the keynote. REALLY UGLY HORRIBLE UI. Each login creates a NEW buddy lists. So signing on 3 AIM handles created 3 FREAKING buddy lists....

Spaces crashed.. boring...

Time machine, I activated it set a backup drive, but it never showed in my dock.. so i can't try it out...

The installer disk let me turn my format my bootcamp partition for leopard (which 10.4 disk utility won't do)... it also asked if i wanted to restore from a time machine..., or before installing if i wanted to make a "time machine backup" of the current drive....

All in all, this is the worst beta i've ever seen from apple. You can tell they are in the middle of redesigning the finder, or they seriously had to cut stuff out of it because of something soooo top secret...
     
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Aug 11, 2006, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
Okay a couple of things about this leopard preview. This is bar far the MOST UNSTABLE preview release I've every seen Apple release, bar none. And that includes betas of OS X 10.0

The good news is it's really, really, really fast. H.264 video flew, nothing lagged, the finder (you can tell it's in the middle of being redesigned) flew... Much better threaded. networking no longer shows you spinning beach ball..

Spotlight (the application version under Applications) gives you a taste of how the new finder is going to be, when you search for images. You could resize previews on the fly, and spotlight really, really shines, its' super fast.

Bad things. Everything crashes. Dashboard crashed, made a webclipping, crashed dashboard and safari. Went to yahoo.com safari crashed again (it is faster though....)

IChat is currently FUGGLY as all.. it looks like they didn't finish they UI or ripped out the good theme at the last minute before the keynote. REALLY UGLY HORRIBLE UI. Each login creates a NEW buddy lists. So signing on 3 AIM handles created 3 FREAKING buddy lists....

Spaces crashed.. boring...

Time machine, I activated it set a backup drive, but it never showed in my dock.. so i can't try it out...

The installer disk let me turn my format my bootcamp partition for leopard (which 10.4 disk utility won't do)... it also asked if i wanted to restore from a time machine..., or before installing if i wanted to make a "time machine backup" of the current drive....

All in all, this is the worst beta i've ever seen from apple. You can tell they are in the middle of redesigning the finder, or they seriously had to cut stuff out of it because of something soooo top secret...


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Aug 11, 2006, 08:37 PM
 
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm guessing that the instability is because they've tried to hide things, as evidenced by the finder still looking exactly the same. I'm excited to see Leopard next spring. By then developers like yourself would have tested, retested, and then tested it again to squash any system bugs. Thanks again. Hey, without breaking your NDA, any more details you can share?
     
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Aug 11, 2006, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
the finder (you can tell it's in the middle of being redesigned) flew... Much better threaded. networking no longer shows you spinning beach ball..
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Aug 11, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
Mac, unlike Windows, I would think wouldn't release a version of their OS with huge problems such as the beta.

As long as Timewarp works the way they say, I'm buying it.
     
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Aug 11, 2006, 10:10 PM
 
I'll bet this is like Beta 0.01, and nowhere near a release candidate. Crashing? How un-Mac!

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Aug 11, 2006, 10:15 PM
 
That's why we have backups.
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Aug 11, 2006, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by kyles_mac
Mac, unlike Windows, I would think wouldn't release a version of their OS with huge problems such as the beta.

...
Sigh...

The names of the companies are Apple and Microsoft respectively. Neither computers nor operating systems are capable of releasing software.
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Aug 11, 2006, 10:41 PM
 
Without breaking NDA, is Sherlock still there or gone?
     
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Aug 11, 2006, 11:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Philip J. Fry
Without breaking NDA, is Sherlock still there or gone?
Never rely on a prerelease version to determine if something will be there or not. If Apple didn't officially say it would be there, then don't assume that if something is there now it will be there later.
     
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Aug 11, 2006, 11:39 PM
 
Now we know why Steve had two computers set up for the demo, with a KVM switch handy. Perhaps also why WWDC was postponed two months. Though that worked out conveniently on the CPU front.
     
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Aug 11, 2006, 11:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50
Now we know why Steve had two computers set up for the demo, with a KVM switch handy.
He has done that before. And incidentally, last time he had to make use of it, it was iPhoto too that was the culprit.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 02:50 AM
 
AFAWK, he ALWAYS runs backups at keynotes.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 04:31 AM
 
I hope some screenshots of the Spotlight.app interface surface. I wonder why they made it into it's own app now?
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 04:39 AM
 
Is there any ability to enter in Spotlight comments from within save dialogs?

I know Microsoft at one time was allowing users to enter in metadata (like keywords) for files directly in their save dialogs. I heard they removed the feature and don't know whether or not they added it back since then.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 09:15 AM
 
Has the debug code......................errr, never-mind.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 09:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by rickey939
Has the debug code......................errr, never-mind.
Sounds like, from the apparent bugginess and instability that the debug code has most definitely been removed, at last.

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Aug 12, 2006, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by monkeybrain
I hope some screenshots of the Spotlight.app interface surface. I wonder why they made it into it's own app now?
It gives you more control over the process. I always end up searching again from the finder.

Hmmmm...

or maybe because the adavanced features are built into the mythical new finder. They wanted to save the finder for later so in order to preview Spotlight's features they had to break it out into a container app. So it may be a temporary app for the beta.
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Aug 12, 2006, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by MPMoriarty
Is there any ability to enter in Spotlight comments from within save dialogs?
Please, yes. I've tired of sending this request to Apple

Hopefully they've found some way to give more presence to file metadata in general. A hidden 'Get info' inspector is really not up to the task.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 05:24 PM
 
I think the Get Info inspector is one element in OS X that definitely needs to be redesigned. If you expand all the items, the thing can get very tall very fast. I would prefer it to be grouped into tabs like "General", "Permissions", "Metadata", etc.

Much more organized and space-saving.
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Aug 12, 2006, 05:32 PM
 
Quartz Extreme 2D: Is it turned on?

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Aug 12, 2006, 05:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by MPMoriarty
I would prefer it to be grouped into tabs
With tabs you can never see the information at the same time. With the expandable pane you can when you expand to ones you are interested in.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 07:46 PM
 
Let's all hope for a better, more efficient and flexible way at entering metadata. Anytime I save/create a file I should be able to hit a keystroke and then type in some metadata right there. I dont think of the file name when doing a Spotlight search. I think "video of hacking" or "tutorial on cocoa and Objective-C" or "backup page created for new client" etc etc... stuff that would be too long and unorderly for a file name.

Now there's a good idea for someone to implement as an app and make a few $$$... but would it be possible?
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 09:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Philip J. Fry
Without breaking NDA, is Sherlock still there or gone?
How does that not break NDA?
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 09:34 PM
 
Without breaking your NDA, can one of the devs at WWDC please send me a copy of Leopard?
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Aug 12, 2006, 10:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Without breaking your NDA, can one of the devs at WWDC please send me a copy of Leopard?
Without breaking the NDA? Of course not. That's like asking if you can drive 110 MPH on I-95 without breaking the law.

It should be available to premiere subscription developers in a couple weeks, though.

And I don't think this is a beta release. Its a developers (read: alpha) release.


I'm also quite surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet. It does break forum rules.
     
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Aug 12, 2006, 10:45 PM
 
I'm pretty sure he was joking.
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Aug 12, 2006, 10:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Without breaking your NDA, can one of the devs at WWDC please send me a copy of Leopard?
Funny, I like that.
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 03:25 AM
 
What kind of Mac is running such Leopard buid?
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 04:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Without breaking your NDA, can one of the devs at WWDC please send me a copy of Leopard?
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 08:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb
What kind of Mac is running such Leopard buid?
I am hoping a really old TiBook!
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 08:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by MPMoriarty
I think the Get Info inspector is one element in OS X that definitely needs to be redesigned. If you expand all the items, the thing can get very tall very fast. I would prefer it to be grouped into tabs like "General", "Permissions", "Metadata", etc.

Much more organized and space-saving.
Metadata? What are regular end users supposed to think when they read that? I do think that Get Info could use some work, specifically the users and groups permissions menu. There are far too many esoteric users and groups shown to users. The major users and groups should be there, but the others should be placed in a submenu labeled something like System Users and System Groups. Right now it looks like a Unix admin is required to manage permissions.

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Aug 13, 2006, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by sc_markt
Quartz Extreme 2D: Is it turned on?

This is what i wanted to know as well
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Aug 13, 2006, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb
What kind of Mac is running such Leopard buid?

NOT G3's. Only G4 and up.

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Aug 13, 2006, 02:15 PM
 
On "Get Info"

The functionality and information available through 'Get Info' is too well hidden currently. And I also find it kind of 'technical' and cluttered. I'm mainly hoping Apple has found better ways to help users learn about things like keywords, editable icons, labels and other file info.

The OS X Finder already started down this path by allowing for 'Item info'. I think this could be expanded in interesting ways. Windows does it using a left side window pane, which is not bad. Apple might well find some even better, unintrusive way.
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
NOT G3's. Only G4 and up.
My main concern is about the build being so damn fast. Maybe what I should have said is something like 'dude, since everything flies -and crashes-… what kind of intel Mac do you have there ?
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead


All in all, this is the worst beta i've ever seen from apple. You can tell they are in the middle of redesigning the finder, or they seriously had to cut stuff out of it because of something soooo top secret...
Keep in mind that this is NOT actually a beta at all. It is merely a "preview". It is not there for the purpose of providing bug testing feedback to Apple, it is merely to give developers a bit of an idea of what's in store.

That means it's probably been last-minute hacked (by Apple) to remove things they don't want you to see yet. It also means that it has not been completed enough for serious testing.
( Last edited by Brass; Aug 13, 2006 at 06:56 PM. )
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 11:20 PM
 
Well it's still crashing all the time, any developers out there know how I can start building something with coreanimation? I installed my developer tools for it...

Also the demo where ichat has motion video background (greenscreening) I can't figure it out at all, even with two leopard computers, If you launch quicktime, there is an option "send to ichat" but it didn't do anything.

Also the version Steve Jobs used on stage was newier than the preview build they gave us.

And to clear up anything, this "preview" is technically a beta. Apple documentation lists it clearly in the installer as "Beta Build 9A241"

Anyway, I can't wait to see the new finder, also the save dialog boxes lets you do icon view, like windows, ALSO it has a feature I've always wanted for years, and years and years. YOU CAN CHOOSE Save or OPEN and drag a folder into the dialog box, to automatically navigate to that directory. Great timesaver when the window is already open.
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 11:34 PM
 
spotlight is an app + the usual menubar item, you can launch it both ways. It's very clear that it's just a preview of what's going to happen in the finder.


Originally Posted by Gavin
It gives you more control over the process. I always end up searching again from the finder.

Hmmmm...

or maybe because the adavanced features are built into the mythical new finder. They wanted to save the finder for later so in order to preview Spotlight's features they had to break it out into a container app. So it may be a temporary app for the beta.
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 11:53 PM
 
Check out this safari feature, if you enter text in forms and try to close the tab before submitting safari alerts you. Awesome!

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=447469
     
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Aug 13, 2006, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
ALSO it has a feature I've always wanted for years, and years and years. YOU CAN CHOOSE Save or OPEN and drag a folder into the dialog box, to automatically navigate to that directory. Great timesaver when the window is already open.
I can do that in Tiger.
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 01:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by msuper69
Sigh...

The names of the companies are Apple and Microsoft respectively. Neither computers nor operating systems are capable of releasing software.
Wow. Pull whatever you've got up your a$$ out and sell it on ebay.

Originally Posted by chris v
Halle-freaking-Luja!
No doubt. (But we've heard that before have we not?)
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 01:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
Check out this safari feature, if you enter text in forms and try to close the tab before submitting safari alerts you. Awesome!

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=447469
I hope you can disable that alert; that's going to annoy the hell out of me. When I close a tab, dammit, I want it closed.
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 04:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
Anyway, I can't wait to see the new finder, also the save dialog boxes lets you do icon view, like windows, ALSO it has a feature I've always wanted for years, and years and years. YOU CAN CHOOSE Save or OPEN and drag a folder into the dialog box, to automatically navigate to that directory. Great timesaver when the window is already open.
That's been there at least since Tiger, Panther too, I believe. You can also drag and drop an object into a Terminal window to copy its file path there.
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by El Gato
I hope you can disable that alert; that's going to annoy the hell out of me. When I close a tab, dammit, I want it closed.
Would you also like to disable "Your document has unsaved changes" in every document-based application?
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by El Gato
I hope you can disable that alert; that's going to annoy the hell out of me. When I close a tab, dammit, I want it closed.

It only does that for tabs where you have entered text and not submitted it. Not every tab you close.

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Aug 14, 2006, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
I'll bet this is like Beta 0.01, and nowhere near a release candidate. Crashing? How un-Mac!
Given that Steve said it would ship "in spring 2007," I'd hope that over the next 5-8 months some stuff could be added, more than if this were a "release candidate"
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Moose
Would you also like to disable "Your document has unsaved changes" in every document-based application?
No.
     
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Aug 14, 2006, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by El Gato
No.
The warning only comes up in Safari when you've entered text into a form and not posted it back to the server.
     
 
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