[Dagoof]

Ok, looks like I do need help after all!

Recently got my first modern Mac, a Power Mac G4 running OS 9.2. At first I thought it wasn't working - in fact, it's just that it takes an age to fully boot (about 10 minutes) and after that is more or less unresponsive. It loads everything but if I click any icons I just get the watch cursor - that stays busy for a minute then goes back to pointer (without actually having performed the function). Can't even get the menus to drop down.

Could anyone help? Is there a Mac equivalent of ctrl-alt-delete where I could shut down unrequired functions (perhaps before the OS loads? I remember doing something command prompt style years ago on a Mac).

[gooser]

dunno, but if you can't get an answer here try moving thread to the osx set of forums. if you read below it's for all max os systems. welcome.

[Dagoof]

Thanks Gooser - didn't realise that, thought the OSX forum would be exclusively for OSX.

If there's a mod around, would appreciate a shunt in there!

[kick52]

try holding down shift on start up.

you may also have a bad hard drive or bad ram

[Dagoof]

Thanks Kick - was going to try removing one of the sticks.

[Apfhex]

Sounds like something is VERY wrong with it, either in software or in hardware. First thing I would do is completely erase the hard drive and put a fresh install of the MacOS on it (assuming it doesn't already have a fresh install). Also, use the hardware test CD, if one came with it.

if that didn't work I'd suspect the hard drive. There should be something like "Disk First Aid" to check for problems.

[ghporter]

This forum is really for NON-Apple OSs on Mac hardware. I'm going to move this thread to the Mac OS X forum, where I think you'll get much better help.

Now if you have a problem with Linux or Windows XP come on back!

[Dagoof]

Thanks Ghporter, much obliged

The main problem here is that it's for use with a specialised scanner and it's got some very important software preloaded on the HDD that I don't have the install CD's for - so scrubbing the HDD isn't an issue (otherwise that's the first thing I would've done!).

Going to try removing a couple of ram sticks and also the shift>startup.

[Dagoof]

Ah, success! It booted right up by holding shift, everything nice and accessible so thanks a bunch for that

Is there a way now for me to determine what's causing the problem?

[JKT]

If holding the shift key down at bootup worked, it probably means you have an Extension conflict (shift at bootup disables third party extensions to the system). You'll have to try the extension shuffle to find out the cause (activate groups of third party extensions until you find the one that causes the problem).

If at all possible, I would get OS X and install that instead, but it seems that you might not be able to use your scanner if you do that.

[CharlesS]

Yep, you've got an extension problem. Not having to troubleshoot those anymore is part of the reason why we all love OS X. If you watch the extensions march across the bottom of the screen during startup, you might be able to notice which extension it hangs on, and catch the offending one that way. Otherwise, you'll have to go into the dreaded extensions hell. To elaborate on what JKT meant by "try the extension shuffle", here's the step-by-step on what you need to do:

1. Start up with the Shift key down, and see if the problem goes away (you've done this step already).

2. If so, go into Extensions Manager, which should be in your Control Panels folder, and turn off half of the extensions you see in there.

3. Now, reboot. See if the problem is still present. Now, there are two possibilities:

• a. If the problem goes away, then one of the extensions you just turned off is at fault. Turn those extensions back on, and turn all the rest off.
• b. If the problem is still present, then the problem lies with one of the extensions that's still on.

Either way, you've just eliminated half of the extensions in your system.

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until you've narrowed it down to one extension.

There used to be a program called Conflict Catcher by Casady & Greene that automated this process for you. Unfortunately, the company's been out of business for a couple of years due to OS X making their product obsolete. If you intend to use OS 9 full-time rather than upgrading to OS X, you might want to look for a copy on eBay or something.

Additionally, if the Mac you got came with the OS already on it, you may want to just do a reformat and reinstall to get rid of whatever crud the previous owner may have left behind. This is what I'd probably do if that's indeed the case.

[kick52]

Originally Posted by Dagoof 

Ah, success! It booted right up by holding shift, everything nice and accessible so thanks a bunch for that

Is there a way now for me to determine what's causing the problem?

Score! Kick52 saves another!

You should take out any extensions that you might not need.

Also, try the "Mac OS Base" extensioin set in extension manager.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

1. Start up with the Shift key down, and see if the problem goes away (you've done this step already).

2. If so, go into Extensions Manager, which should be in your Control Panels folder, and turn off half of the extensions you see in there.

3. Now, reboot. See if the problem is still present. Now, there are two possibilities:

• a. If the problem goes away, then one of the extensions you just turned off is at fault. Turn those extensions back on, and turn all the rest off.
• b. If the problem is still present, then the problem lies with one of the extensions that's still on.

Either way, you've just eliminated half of the extensions in your system.

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until you've narrowed it down to one extension.

Ah, yes, hours of fun!

Note also that some conflicts go away if you merely re-name the extension to begin with a different letter so that it loads before or after another extension that it might be in conflict with. (Yes, they're loaded first by location, and then alphabetically, IIRC.)

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

2. If so, go into Extensions Manager, which should be in your Control Panels folder, and turn off half of the extensions you see in there.

Actually a better way to find the problem (or at least disable a suspect set) is to open the Extensions Manager and select OS 9 Base as the extensions set. This will activate only the extensions that Apple originally shipped with the OS. Reboot (without holding Shift this time) to verify that things still work - they should. I would then try the scanner software to see if third party extension is needed; if it is, the program will likely say which extension(s) it needs enabled. Go back to Extensions Manager, enable the necessary extension(s), restart again and verify that the software works. At this point, if things are working, you may choose not to go any further in your quest to find the extension conflict, or you can continue selectively enabling extensions until you find the culprit.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Actually a better way to find the problem (or at least disable a suspect set) is to open the Extensions Manager and select OS 9 Base as the extensions set. This will activate only the extensions that Apple originally shipped with the OS. Reboot (without holding Shift this time) to verify that things still work - they should. I would then try the scanner software to see if third party extension is needed; if it is, the program will likely say which extension(s) it needs enabled. Go back to Extensions Manager, enable the necessary extension(s), restart again and verify that the software works. At this point, if things are working, you may choose not to go any further in your quest to find the extension conflict, or you can continue selectively enabling extensions until you find the culprit.

Ah, but then you've probably inadvertently disabled some driver that you need for something or other, causing some other app not to work. Also, the offending extension is still sitting around, waiting to get accidentally turned on again and wreak its havoc. No, better just to track down the bad extension and yank it.

[Dagoof]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, have just had a hectic work schedule and not even had a chance to try all this - going to give it a go now, so thanks for all the straight forward instructions!

[moonmonkey]

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