[besson3c]

OS X is a bloody Unix based operating system. Why do I have to restart the damn computer so that iChat can use a new SSL certificate? An SSL certificate is a damn text file. For that matter, why is the update 4.5 megabyte? Why doesn't Apple tell us what is actually included in this update beyond:

This update renews the .Mac certificate required by iChat for encrypting text, audio, and video conferences.

An SSL certificate is 4.5 meg?


Furthermore, why am I being pushed this update anyway? I don't have a .Mac account, so please don't waste my time.


I wish Software Update was FAR more intelligent and would learn how to restart services rather than forcing a reboot of the entire OS. This would especially help with making OS X Server a slightly more viable product. It's pathetic that a product with the word "Server" in its name would think that it is appropriate to push iPod updates onto a machine that is, say, functioning as a web server or database server or something

I know that there is a Software Update server, but if you have a single OS X Server machine, it seems somewhat counter-intuitive to setup this service to provide Software Update with a little more intelligence. Besides, I'm sure you'd still have to filter out the stuff you don't need, and of course carefully plan for restarts for vague things.

[peeb]

You don't have to download it.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by peeb 

You don't have to download it.

I realize that, but by default Software Update checking is enabled, and therefore users will see this pop up in this manner until they either install it, or remove it from the list.

It's just a rather clumsy and intrusive design, just like Windows nagging you about you can tell Microsoft about how to make Office better is a PITA.

[CatOne]

*golf clap*

[besson3c]

I guess it is possible that the SSL cert is actually hard-coded into the app itself somehow. Seems dumb not putting it in the Keychain, but...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

OS X is a bloody Unix based operating system. Why do I have to restart the damn computer so that iChat can use a new SSL certificate? An SSL certificate is a damn text file. For that matter, why is the update 4.5 megabyte? Why doesn't Apple tell us what is actually included in this update beyond:

This update renews the .Mac certificate required by iChat for encrypting text, audio, and video conferences.

According to the receipt:

- The iChat app itself is updated - there's 1.7 MB.

- The EncryptionUpdater.nib and Localizable.strings files are updated for each of iChat's localizations - there's another 2.4 MB.

- iChatAgent is updated - 2.3 MB.

- InstantMessage gets a bump to its version number and an update to its Info.plist - 1.3 KB there.

Grand total of 6.4 MB, which compresses down to 4.5 MB thanks to gzip.

[mduell]

Wait, you don't think your servers should be downloading the latest iPod updater?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

According to the receipt:

- The iChat app itself is updated - there's 1.7 MB.

- The EncryptionUpdater.nib and Localizable.strings files are updated for each of iChat's localizations - there's another 2.4 MB.

- iChatAgent is updated - 2.3 MB.

- InstantMessage gets a bump to its version number and an update to its Info.plist - 1.3 KB there.

Grand total of 6.4 MB, which compresses down to 4.5 MB thanks to gzip.

Why isn't the SSL cert included in the x509Anchors Keychain I wonder?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Wait, you don't think your servers should be downloading the latest iPod updater?

If I had a Mac OS X Server, no, I'd want it to be downloading animated desktop pictures

[mitchell_pgh]

I chalk this up to the "It Just Works" factor.

I'm sure Apple could make it so that a restart wouldn't be needed, but I'm guessing that it's far easier to simply have you restart.

So few environments demand 24/7/365 uptime (99.9 is really good) so I'm guessing that Apple's consumer OS is fine with a restart from time to time.

Also, it's not required.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I chalk this up to the "It Just Works" factor.

I'm sure Apple could make it so that a restart wouldn't be needed, but I'm guessing that it's far easier to simply have you restart.

So few environments demand 24/7/365 uptime (99.9 is really good) so I'm guessing that Apple's consumer OS is fine with a restart from time to time.

Also, it's not required.

I don't know about you, but I put off my updates until I absolutely have to restart. For that reason, my computer is probably vulnerable for a while in the case of security updates.

Am I the only one that can't stand restarting? Why would it be hard to manually restart stuff? Apple even wrote launchd so they ought to have inside knowledge on restarting services. It's really not that hard to do, I don't know why Apple doesn't do it.

[Mithras]

You're not the only one. Would be nice if SU offered to run the update & reboot sometime in the middle of the night for me.

[besson3c]

Okay, just so that this rant is constructive, let's talk about ways to improve the Software Update mechanism... Here is what I propose:

1) Apple classify and categorize each Software Update and expand the SU pref pane to allow you to check off the kinds of updates you would like SU to check for. If the user has never set their own customized settings, continue to check everything as usual, but provide some feedback to the user informing them of the options in the SU pref pane.

The options can be very simple such as "iLife app updates", "Quicktime/iTunes/iPod updates", etc. Security updates should be manditory.

2) Apple provide recommendations as to which security/bug fix related updates should be installed. If there is a security update for PHP, but the user doesn't even have his/her web server turned on, there is no great need to apply the update. Since most of the time security updates include updates for several components, some sort of overall assessment should be established with information provided as to what each update entails. Perhaps security updates should all be required, but perhaps they could be postponed if there is no great need to apply them?

3) The only software updates that should require a restart are kernel level changes, period. While there is a possibility that a service will not be restored properly this way if a manual configuration change is made, this should be extremely rare. This should at least be available as an option.


Edit: upon rereading this, maybe #2 should be scrapped altogether...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I chalk this up to the "It Just Works" factor.

I'm sure Apple could make it so that a restart wouldn't be needed, but I'm guessing that it's far easier to simply have you restart.

So few environments demand 24/7/365 uptime (99.9 is really good) so I'm guessing that Apple's consumer OS is fine with a restart from time to time.

Also, it's not required.

What do you base your assertion on that so few environments demand 24/7/365 uptime? What about heavy mail servers? DNS? Servers that serve across multiple timezones?

This is besides the point though. Why does Apple make the Dashboard ripple? You can argue that it provides some feedback to the user, but another acceptable reason might be: they can. If they feel it adds to the overall experience and it doesn't require a whole lot of Apple's resources to pull off, why not?

This is my argument for restarting services. It's not hard to do, Apple sells a Unix operating system, so... why not?

[MichiganRich]

You sound like someone who should just buy a box, a bunch of parts, and lovingly construct a quad Xeon Redhatted Yellow Dog or whatever jargon-y Unix thing server. After you've handwritten the code, you can smile and congratulate yourself on how brilliant you are. Apple has to sell to all kinds of people, 99.978 percent of whom are not as technically adept as you are.

Making software more twiddly and endlessly configurable will just make it more Windows-y, where you have to be a computer nerd just to do the simplest things. My 64-year-old mom is an Apple customer too, and she loves the simplicity and elegance of the OS as it is. There are plenty of things that confuse her, and Software Update does not need to become one of them.

I'm sure you will take offense and feel that I'm criticizing you, but you have such a narrow view of computing that you really are the .022 percentile person. You should just roll your own, but let the Mac be a Mac. Simple.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by MichiganRich 

You sound like someone who should just buy a box, a bunch of parts, and lovingly construct a quad Xeon Redhatted Yellow Dog or whatever jargon-y Unix thing server. After you've handwritten the code, you can smile and congratulate yourself on how brilliant you are. Apple has to sell to all kinds of people, 99.978 percent of whom are not as technically adept as you are.

Making software more twiddly and endlessly configurable will just make it more Windows-y, where you have to be a computer nerd just to do the simplest things. My 64-year-old mom is an Apple customer too, and she loves the simplicity and elegance of the OS as it is. There are plenty of things that confuse her, and Software Update does not need to become one of them.

I'm sure you will take offense and feel that I'm criticizing you, but you have such a narrow view of computing that you really are the .022 percentile person. You should just roll your own, but let the Mac be a Mac. Simple.

I refuse to believe that an operating system can't be simple and Grandma-friendly AND be secure and well-designed for computer savvy users. Apple has already provided many advanced features that novice users like your 64-year-old Mom will not use (e.g. Filevault), which means that they are at least somewhat interested in devoting some resources to appease advanced users. As long as this is the case, why not do the job properly?

[Kevin]

Because you aren't working for the besson.

[G0Ducks]

Personally... I can't stand that I have to have all of the apple apps at the root applications folder in order for Software update to see them. I want my apps folder to be organized by app type into folders. It is a real drag (pardon the pun) to have to put them back in the applications root folder every so often (or not get the updates.)

[hatim]

One more problem with software update is that it wont resume download. My stupid ADSL connection dies every 2-3 hrs for 10 seconds and Software update says "lost connection to the internet" ...thats almost retarded when downloading a 300-400MB update.

[JLL]

By downloading everything you're sure that the OS is up to date, you're sure it's the same as everyone elses, you're sure can clone it to any other Mac and it just works, bugs in third party (or Apple) apps you use can be fixed by downloading some component like QuickTime even though you don't think you're using QuickTime.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by JLL 

By downloading everything you're sure that the OS is up to date, you're sure it's the same as everyone elses, you're sure can clone it to any other Mac and it just works, bugs in third party (or Apple) apps you use can be fixed by downloading some component like QuickTime even though you don't think you're using QuickTime.

What if you don't care about everybody else's build and just want to establish a build that is consistent within a particular environment? If a machine (particularly a server) will never in a zillion years use iPhoto, what good does updating iPhoto do?

[besson3c]

It's kind of interesting to me how back in the day when OS X first came out and people complained it was slow, some here would say "it's not so bad", "it's not a big deal", etc. Either these people lack some objectivity, honestly are not experiencing the problem or having it impact them personally, or have no point of reference to know how something *could* be if it were better and how one would benefit.

I just hope that those that would dismiss these weaknesses are not just victims of blind loyalty.

[JKT]

Apple already offers you control over what does and does not get downloaded. Switch off Software Update and visit their website. Pick and choose to your heart's content. Don't want download X, Y or Z, then don't download it.

One more problem with software update is that it wont resume download. My stupid ADSL connection dies every 2-3 hrs for 10 seconds and Software update says "lost connection to the internet" ...thats almost retarded when downloading a 300-400MB update.

Actually, it does support resumable downloads and has done so for a long time now.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by JKT 

Apple already offers you control over what does and does not get downloaded. Switch off Software Update and visit their website. Pick and choose to your heart's content. Don't want download X, Y or Z, then don't download it.


Actually, it does support resumable downloads and has done so for a long time now.

So how do I receive notification in a timely manner when there is a new download awaiting?

No offense people, but all of this apologizing is really not making a compelling argument, IMHO.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If a machine (particularly a server) will never in a zillion years use iPhoto, what good does updating iPhoto do?

If your machine will never in a zillion years use iPhoto, then why is it installed?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst 

If your machine will never in a zillion years use iPhoto, then why is it installed?

Because it is bundled with new installs. However, I guess deleting it is a decent way to accommodate my scenario.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So how do I receive notification in a timely manner when there is a new download awaiting?

No offense people, but all of this apologizing is really not making a compelling argument, IMHO.

Neither is your complaining actually. As you yourself say, Software Update is just informing you about a particular update. If you don't want it, don't install it. How hard can that be?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Neither is your complaining actually. As you yourself say, Software Update is just informing you about a particular update. If you don't want it, don't install it. How hard can that be?

My complaining might not be productive in and of itself, but I proposed some solutions which nobody has really commented on.

What you are doing is picking apart a part of what I've said, it is easy to do this. However, this does not address my overall assertion that Software Update is brain-dead and can be a complete PITA in a number of ways. Please address my overall point in addition to picking apart the details.