[peeb]

Ok, so we have the beachball. Then we have the watch, and the revolving circle segment thing. Sometimes two, or even all three of them at once.
Why? What subtleties of waiting does each signify?

[TETENAL]

This means the application is no longer responding to the system.

This means the application is still responding to the system, but it does not want to respond to the user right now.

This means the application is responding to the system and to the user, but it currently processing something.

[Dakarʒ]

They really should change the beachball to a middle finger.

[peeb]

Thank you - that's very informative. Yes, the middle finger would be great. I do wish that task management was better - I grieves me greatly that rendering background tabs ever takes 100% of the available steam.

[Chuckit]

I don't think the watch is actually an official OS X cursor. It was a system cursor in OS 9, I believe, and a lot of applications have it hardcoded in to show it when they're busy.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I don't think the watch is actually an official OS X cursor. It was a system cursor in OS 9, I believe, and a lot of applications have it hardcoded in to show it when they're busy.

The explanation I heard years ago, and I mean like 10.1 times, was thats how you could tell a carbonized app from a cocoa one. I'm not sure how accurate it was then, but somehow I doubt it applies now.

[Chuckit]

Well, any app that shows the watch is almost certainly Carbon (I doubt any Cocoa programmer will go to the trouble to grab that cursor and code it in), but it's not guaranteed that a Carbon app will show it.

[Curiosity]

You forgot one: the little spinning wheel next to the arrow. I surmise that it means that the application is busy but you can still select something.

[peeb]

So the latest Safari is a Carbon app?

[Chuckit]

In what case can you make Safari display the watch? I could be remembering incorrectly, but I don't believe I've ever seen that even once.

[adamfishercox]

I think instead of the watch, in OS X there is sometimes a Black and white version of the beachball. It was also in Mac OS 9.

I have never seen an equivalent to the watch in OS X. Every once in a while the watch pops up, but never in iApps. It's either the beachball or the "wheel spokes" which isn't even a cursor.

[richwig83]

They should just use the last one and scrap the other two..... the watch looks so dated and the beachball looks naff.

[adamfishercox]

Lookie here what I found: Apple's own list of all cursors.

Apple Human Interface Guidelines: Standard Cursors

Ironically, the watch is "prohibited" in OS X.

In case you were wondering, that is a page from the human interface guidelines. There's some interesting stuff in there, especially the fact that Apple ignores most of it's own guidelines.

[peeb]

I get the watch quite a lot in the latest Safari beta.

[Chuckit]

Please give me some action I can do to reproduce it, because I have never gotten the watch in Safari or any Cocoa app.

[adamfishercox]

I don't think that you can get the watch in Safari, seeing as Apple themselves say DONT USE THE WATCH IN OS X.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Please give me some action I can do to reproduce it, because I have never gotten the watch in Safari or any Cocoa app.

It happens to me when I am opening a lot of background tabs. Of course, I can't be sure that it is Safari that is doing it, but it has the focus.

[adamfishercox]

I just got the Watch in Safari!

I was opening a PDF inside the browser with the Adobe Reader plug-in.

I'm not sure if Safari or Adobe caused it. I'm hedging bets on Adobe, though, as they have the watch in Photoshop Elements.

Plus for Apple to ban the watch, and then use it, would be scary.

[peeb]

Ah-ha - that could be it - since your question, I've been trying to reliably replicate it - and can't - it could be that it is a pluggin that is causing it in Safari!
Although, thinking about it, does Safari use Adobe code to render PDFs, or their own?

[pheonixash]

I get the watch when I open iTunes sometimes. So it's definitely something Apple still uses.

[adamfishercox]

No. It's not. Apple says that it is a Mac OS 9 cursor and should not be used. Therefore, they don't use it (I hope.)

[peeb]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

No. It's not. Apple says that it is a Mac OS 9 cursor and should not be used. Therefore, they don't use it (I hope.)

I don't know why one logically follows from the other. I think they haven't got rid of all the watches.

[adamfishercox]

iTunes was never made for OS 9. Therefore, since watches are banned in OS X, it shouldn't have a watch.

Plus, the watch is a cursor and is not connected with a program. The only reason for a watch to show up is if the program maker has hard coded a watch in. Apple wouldn't have done this, because if the app was made for OS 9, OS 9 would have provided the watch and it wouldn't have been necessary. If it was made for OS X, they wouldn't have coded it in because it was "Banned"

[peeb]

That's all very well, but it doesn't explain why the watch shows up in Safari and iTunes.

[adamfishercox]

Either there are plugins installed, or Apple puts more effort into hard coding a watch cursor into iTunes in an attempt to blatantly ignore a basic part of their own Human Interface Guidelines.

[peeb]

One or the other, I guess. Or, let me posit a third option - a team of people works on the iApps, and they are not the same people who write the HIGs. Sometimes, confusion ensues, especially as the HIGs change from time to time. Occasionally, a watch sneaks in there.

[adamfishercox]

The people who work on Apple's software know the HIG. What's the point if they don't?

[peeb]

Well, I'm just saying I think it's possible, that, while they 'know' the HIGs, one or two of them might occasionally not be 100% straight about every aspect of them, and occasionally, a mistake might slip in. I think that's more plausible than them doing it deliberately.

[adamfishercox]

They don't hard code cursors in though. The cursors aren't part of the program. They don't need to code cursors in. They don't need to know about cursors, except for any custom cursor, but I don't believe that even turns up in any iApp.

[peeb]

So you're saying that the watch is not part of the app? I agree, but doesn't the app 'call' the cursor in some way? I've definitely seen the watch in iApps, but, as you point out, it's possible that it's to do with pluggins.

[adamfishercox]

Basically if you seen the watch in an iApp, it must be a plugin, or something else. There's no watch cursor to call upon.

[peeb]

So any time the watch appears, it is because a program specifically has that cursor in its own code?

[adamfishercox]

Yes. I am 95% sure that the watch is not a system cursor in OS X.

[peeb]

Cool - thanks - I guess that means it's a pluggin - you know, this has moved from idle curiosity to a more serious question. I'm going to reinstall Safari without any pluggins and see if I can make it show the watch. I'll get back to you! Thanks!

[adamfishercox]

I have never encountered a watch in Safari except for the one time I was running Adobe Reader in the browser.

[peeb]

I think you're right - but are you sure that Apple uses adobe to render PDFs, not it's own code?

[adamfishercox]

No, I have an Adobe plug-in. I don't think Safari can render PDFs inside the browser without a plug-in.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

iTunes was never made for OS 9. Therefore, since watches are banned in OS X, it shouldn't have a watch.

Yes, it was and so was iMovie. iTunes does have the watch in it, I get it every time I open iTunes.

Also, just because Apple says not to do something doesn't mean that they won't do it themselves.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

No, I have an Adobe plug-in. I don't think Safari can render PDFs inside the browser without a plug-in.

Bzzzt!! Wrong again.

Safari on Tiger doesn't need a plug-in for PDFs.

[adamfishercox]

I was under the impression that iTunes was after OS X. iMovie, iDVD, and something else were in OS 9, but it doesn't matter, because in OS 9 the cursor wasn't built in. If it needed a watch, OS 9 provided a watch. OS X doesn't provide a watch, so I have no idea how iTunes gives a watch. I run a slow computer and have never gotten a watch, just a beachball.

[adamfishercox]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Bzzzt!! Wrong again.

Safari on Tiger doesn't need a plug-in for PDFs.

Wonder why it doesn't render then.... it just downloads 'em.

[peeb]

I'm pretty certain that it can - I don't have adobe, and preview and Safari both work fine with pdfs.

[adamfishercox]

Never worked for me, but I believe you, after all PDFs are pretty standard for browsers.

[Art Vandelay]

iTunes was the first iApp. iPhoto was the first iApp to be exclusive to Mac OS X.

Carbon is full of legacy code so it's not surprising to see the watch in Carbon apps.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

Wonder why it doesn't render then.... it just downloads 'em.

Maybe you changed the default. Normally Safari 2.x and above renders PDF inline without any plugins. It does it a lot faster than Adobe's plug-in too.

[adamfishercox]

No, iMovie was the first iApp. It was made for OS 8.

[peeb]

Safari renders in-line for me.

[adamfishercox]

I'll try it when I get my new macbook tomorrow... the 800 MHz emac is killing me.

[Art Vandelay]

Oops, you're right. It came out after. However, it was based off of Soundjam so it had really been around a long time before, just under a different name.

[Art Vandelay]

I get the watch in iTunes when connecting to AirTunes. Not sure I get it anywhere else in iTunes.