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Official Leopard GUI discussion thread (Page 5)
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Clinically Insane
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Oct 23, 2007, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
So the things I was told didn't happen, does. I guess Apple is doing things a bit differently this time around for some reason.
What are you talking about? What did someone say doesn't happen that did? A minor cosmetic change to one piece of Dock artwork?
Chuck
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Oct 23, 2007, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
How is that confusing? Those applications aren't Mac OS X applications and obviously they won't magically convert to spot a Quartz rendered picture perfect Aqua interface.
I don't think I ever used the word confusing. I said they didn't like that they didn't match. That people wanted their classic apps to have an Aqua look, or they wanted OS X to have a Platinum look. I remember these arguments in here from LONG ago when Me, synotic, swizz, and a few others of us were basically the only OS X themers out there.
It isn't that much different from running Windows XP applications on the Mac OS X desktop using VMware Fusion or Parallels: Those will still spot Luna or Windows Classic as well. They aren't an actual part of Mac OS X, nor are applications in the Classic environment. They rely for the full 100% on Mac OS 9 frameworks.
Right, and I agree. I wasn't one of those complainers BTW. I thought it to be ok for the classic Apps to have the classic look.. I actually WANTED it that way. Others complained though.
Platinum never was an official part of any retail Mac OS X release, so I fail to see why anyone would bring it up in an article dating from 2005.
I just told you. Platinum wasn't Part of OS X's Aqua. But Classic did indeed run in OS X. And was yet another GUI within OS X.

That is what he was referring to. I think he went a bit over-board in using that as an example of inconsistencies. But whatever.
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
Or they just did some bugfixes.
He specifically mentioned GUI changes.

"Another thing to keep in mind is that the GM version of 10.5.0 definitely contains at least some significant differences from the last version seeded via ADC to developers. Anyone taking screenshots of the Dock on the side of the screen, for example, is going to have to retake them after installing the public release."

That is a GUI change, made at the last minute. Apple did this with their other builds, but they released teh GM to the ADC. This time they did not for some reason.

Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
What are you talking about? What did someone say doesn't happen that did?
"Some people" told me that Apple doesn't make such changes to their OS so soon before it's release. That what we saw on their page is what we get. This has now been shown to simply not be true.
A minor cosmetic change to one piece of Dock artwork?
Well that is just one change he mentioned. But a change is still a change. No one said any MAJOR changes would be made. As a matter of fact, I said all these last minutes changes Apple makes at the end, that I was told didn't happen, were indeed minor.

Swapping out graphic files isn't major work. And it is something Apple did at the last minute in their FC stages.
( Last edited by Kevin; Oct 23, 2007 at 12:46 PM. )
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
"Some people" told me that Apple doesn't make such changes to their OS so soon before it's release. That what we saw on their page is what we get. This has now been shown to simply not be true.
Which image on Apple's site needs to be changed, again?

Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Well that is just one change he mentioned. But a change is still a change. No one said any MAJOR changes would be made. As a matter of fact, I said all these last minutes changes Apple makes at the end, that I was told didn't happen, were indeed minor.
Again, you'll have to be specific. It sounded like you were talking about major revisions to the OS X skin. If all you meant was "The Dock might look slightly different on the side," I think people would have agreed more readily that it was possible. That's a far cry from changing the actual parts of people's applications or significantly altering the advertised look of the system.
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Oct 23, 2007, 01:37 PM
 
Well we will know very soon now what if any changes have been made. My copy is scheduled for overnight delivery on the 26th.
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 02:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Which image on Apple's site needs to be changed, again?


Again, you'll have to be specific. It sounded like you were talking about major revisions to the OS X skin. If all you meant was "The Dock might look slightly different on the side," I think people would have agreed more readily that it was possible. That's a far cry from changing the actual parts of people's applications or significantly altering the advertised look of the system.
In all fairness, I'm going to have to disagree and say that if the Dock has received a facelift (I don't think anyone said it looked 'slightly different' on the side, the rumor says that it looks like the application switcher bezel...a huge change) when it's positioned on the side (a change that will get noticed right away by anyone as opposed to a minor change), then it's entirely conceivable that changes to the OS X skin *could* happen between 559 and 581. Probable? Not really. Conceivable? Entirely. The probability was already low that the Dock could receive last minute changes but many signs point to "yes, it received a facelift when placed on the side". Of course, the new Dock look (if rumors are true) probably received little to no testing...so it's surprising this stunt would have been pulled by Apple but that means they could pull a similar stunt for window widgets and all the Leopard website screenshots, videos and Leopard GM PDF manual picture (yes, it's floating around on the net this very minute) are screenshots from older builds.

Anything's possible just not highly probable.
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
That is a GUI change, made at the last minute. Apple did this with their other builds, but they released teh GM to the ADC. This time they did not for some reason.
As far as I remember Apple has not released the GM on ADC until the OS was released in retail - at least in the last couple of releases.

I remember bitching about people who went into an Apple shop on the release day at 6pm got the OS, but ADC had to wait until Monday-Tuesday (or something like that). I even thought about buying Tiger just to be able to install it during the weekend even though we're ADC Premier members and furthermore have maintenence on Mac OS X.
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JLL
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Oct 23, 2007, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Well the developers were wanting to (Most hated Aqua, believe me, there was a reason I was getting dev builds right and left to update my sosumi theme for OS X at the time) Steve just didn't want to do it in that way. He wanted to KILL any remnants of OS 9 he could. Then Adobe started throwing fits and they came up with the classic layer.
Carbon is the result of Adobe's bitching - not Classic. (and now they're bitching about no 64bit Carbon)
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Oct 23, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
the rumor says that it looks like the application switcher bezel...a huge change
Sounds good!
Originally Posted by JLL
Carbon is the result of Microsoft, Macromedia, and Adobe's requirements - not Classic.
Fixed!
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Which image on Apple's site needs to be changed, again?
What does that statement have to do with what I said? Nothing
Again, you'll have to be specific. It sounded like you were talking about major revisions to the OS X skin.
No, I specifically said "minor changes" many times.
If all you meant was "The Dock might look slightly different on the side," I think people would have agreed more readily that it was possible. That's a far cry from changing the actual parts of people's applications or significantly altering the advertised look of the system.
Sorry Chuckit. You were wrong. And now are attempting to backpedal. Either that, or you simply haven't been paying attention. From the start I said minor changes. They wouldn't be showing an OS 9 looking OS, then change it to Aqua in a week no. That is MAJOR changes.

changing a button, or a scroll bar. Those aren't major changes.
Originally Posted by JLL View Post
As far as I remember Apple has not released the GM on ADC until the OS was released in retail - at least in the last couple of releases.
I don't think I recall saying either way about that instance. I said *I* was able to get such a thing.
Originally Posted by JLL View Post
Carbon is the result of Adobe's bitching - not Classic. (and now they're bitching about no 64bit Carbon)
Well they didn't want to run in Classic, but they also didn't want to recode. But you are correct.

The fact is, Apple does change small GUI things, (even the way scroll bars look) till the end. I've noticed these things, swiz , who is the man on the GUI in this forum said as much as well.

And now it's all coming out to be true.

Will it have the changes I hoped it would? Doubtful. But that's not my point.

I can safely say both sides were wrong on this account.

Now lets put this all behind us. It's over. Lets move on.

Anyone seen the GM screenshots yet?
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I don't think I ever used the word confusing. I said they didn't like that they didn't match. That people wanted their classic apps to have an Aqua look, or they wanted OS X to have a Platinum look. I remember these arguments in here from LONG ago when Me, synotic, swizz, and a few others of us were basically the only OS X themers out there.

I just told you. Platinum wasn't Part of OS X's Aqua. But Classic did indeed run in OS X. And was yet another GUI within OS X.
I wasn't referring to you complaining, I was referring to the writer. He started involving platinum. But again, I think he's calling Unified "platinum".
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
I wasn't referring to you complaining, I was referring to the writer. He started involving platinum. But again, I think he's calling Unified "platinum".
Hey may be. Who knows. Write to him.
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 05:37 PM
 
So I've seen a screenshot of the Dock on the side on MacRumors...it's nice. But I've lost hope for Aqua elements being removed...the buttons on the 'About This Mac' window are clearly Aqua.

Ah well...Apple came this ' ' close. Apple should at the very least remove the non-Aqua scrollbars from iTunes and iPhoto (if they haven't already).
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 05:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
So I've seen a screenshot of the Dock on the side on MacRumors...it's nice.
I guess. But it does show Apple changes such things at the last minute.
But I've lost hope for Aqua elements being removed...the buttons on the 'About This Mac' window are clearly Aqua.
Well I've lost hope for Apple doing it anyhow. I still have two hands.
Ah well...Apple came this ' ' close. Apple should at the very least remove the non-Aqua scrollbars from iTunes and iPhoto (if they haven't already).
They are... as far as I can see. Probablem is, iTunes supports double scroll bars.



iPhoto does not and does this.



Yay for consistency!
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 06:03 PM
 
iPhoto supports scroll arrows placed together just fine:

     
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Oct 23, 2007, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
So I've seen a screenshot of the Dock on the side on MacRumors...it's nice.
I wish the Dock would look like that on the bottom as well. I just don't really care for the pimped-out, multi-shadow, reflective look it has.
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 06:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
They are... as far as I can see. Probablem is, iTunes supports double scroll bars.



iPhoto does not and does this.



Yay for consistency!
My iMac does not share that problem with iPhoto...



Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
So I've seen a screenshot of the Dock on the side on MacRumors...it's nice.
Link?

Never mind, saw it on the front page. I wouldn't mind having it like that at the bottom either. Looks nice.
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Two possibilities:

1. Apple's security has become really tight this time

2. The last build that was released to developers is the GM

I don't know which it is, but #2 wouldn't surprise me at all.
Door number one was the correct one.. it has been published on the series of tubes at TPB.

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Oct 23, 2007, 07:06 PM
 
Yeah that dock on the side looks nice! Are the desktop icons dock aware if it's on the right now? It would make it pretty tempting especially on a wide screen, which is really what they should be aiming towards given all the Apple displays are - enough of this focusing on having the dock at the bottom.
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 07:09 PM
 
I heard this command will turn the 3D Dock into the 2D Dock while it's at the bottom of your screen.

Copy/paste in Terminal:
defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean YES
( Last edited by .Neo; Oct 23, 2007 at 07:36 PM. )
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 08:27 PM
 
Heh, had a feeling it wouldn't be too hard .
     
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Oct 23, 2007, 08:30 PM
 
Nice! I don't have too much of a problem with the look of the 3D dock, but the fact that the shelf ends halfway down the icons bothers me. Hopefully that command works!
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 02:30 AM
 
That side Dock is freakin' perfect. I like it much better. I have mine on the left side as well. I've been using ClearDock forever to make the Dock look just like that—white trim with the faded black interior. Perfect!
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 03:30 AM
 


Not taken by me, but found elsewhere on the intertubes. Nifty, if you really hate the new 3D dock.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 04:09 AM
 
Le screenshot from le 10.5



Ah.. 9A581 = 10.5.0 GM

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Oct 24, 2007, 05:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post


Not taken by me, but found elsewhere on the intertubes. Nifty, if you really hate the new 3D dock.
Hallelujah. I'm doin' that Friday.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 06:21 AM
 
Just saying it: iChat theatre is freaking awesome and so is the Mosaic screensaver.

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Oct 24, 2007, 06:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
iPhoto supports scroll arrows placed together just fine:

Well I guess my picture is lying... (It does it on the one at work too)

And I have no third party GUI hacks going on. Lets say it doesn't consistently show up correctly.

[Edit] So I go into my system prefs. And hit the Place scroll arrows option a few times back and forth. Now iPhoto displays them "correctly" So it was still a bug.

Also no matter what I do, this never changes.



The top part is mismatched. If I can see these things glaringly, surely the people designing the GUI should. This is just lack of quality control.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 06:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by MindFad View Post
That side Dock is freakin' perfect. I like it much better. I have mine on the left side as well. I've been using ClearDock forever to make the Dock look just like that—white trim with the faded black interior. Perfect!
It's amazing how such a little GUI change makes a difference huh?
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 07:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
The top part is mismatched. If I can see these things glaringly, surely the people designing the GUI should. This is just lack of quality control.
Why don't you send feedback to Apple about that and the other "gap" bug?
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 07:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
Why don't you send feedback to Apple about that and the other "gap" bug?
Done and did it. This happened when iTunes first changed scroll thumbs too. Then they started using the native ones.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 07:49 AM
 
What native ones in iTunes? I still have those purple things.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 08:00 AM
 
Not in the most recent version of iTunes.. I was referring to an older build.

See some people use the hidden double scroll feature on both ends in Mac OSX. This makes all the new applications with their own GUI break or not show properly. (Steve says no double scroll on both sides!!1) iTunes just ignores it, iPhoto does what I showed above.

This was what happened with the first versions of iTunes as well. Then people complained, and Apple made iTunes either draw from the extras, or added graphic resources to it to support double on both ends.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 08:42 AM
 
Oh well, I guess it's an unsupported/hidden option for a reason.
     
Kevin  (op)
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Oct 24, 2007, 09:06 AM
 
Cause Steve didn't want it available. I like having my double scroll on both ends. (It was cool in OS 9 too) I do think it looks better..

But honestly, since I've been using the scroll wheel it doesn't matter to me. So I can live with a single scroll at one end. No big deal anymore.

Except for the side to side one... which I fixed by making it so when I click on my wheel it changes to side to side. I love the scroll wheel.

And I'd have put the scroll at the top, not the bottom.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 11:07 AM
 
The black dock looks nice, but maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the 3D dock.
I couldn't care less that the lighting is off, etc, etc.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 11:22 AM
 
I like the look of the 3D dock too. But I'll have to USE it first before making any comments. And I don't think the dock is black so much as it is transparent dark. Like sun glasses.

I like the way the 3D looks in screenshots. It seems more in tune with the focal point.

I see Apple updating it and a few other things before 10.6 hits.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by MindFad View Post
Hallelujah. I'm doin' that Friday.
Amen to that, brotha. Now, I just have to wait until Candybar 3 comes out so I can change the drab Leopard folders.
( Last edited by xi_hyperon; Oct 24, 2007 at 12:24 PM. )
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 12:35 PM
 
On Mac OS X Leopard iTunes does not have those new min/max/close glyphs. Sucks.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
On Mac OS X Leopard iTunes does not have those new min/max/close glyphs. Sucks.
What are you referring to?
Originally Posted by xi_hyperon View Post
Amen to that, brotha. Now, I just have to wait until Candybar 3 comes out so I can change the drab Leopard folders.
I LOVE Leopard's folders. Reminds me of Classic's look, but a bit more modern.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post


Not taken by me, but found elsewhere on the intertubes. Nifty, if you really hate the new 3D dock.
Nice, a dock that darkens rather than lightens.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by MindFad View Post
Hallelujah. I'm doin' that Friday.
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
What are you referring to?

I LOVE Leopard's folders. Reminds me of Classic's look, but a bit more modern.
I know, I know, I am trying to like them, and maybe I'll get used to them. You are right, though, there's definitely an echo of Classic in them.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 01:21 PM
 
Interesting... Wonder how they got the new dock look to be at the bottom of the screen!? That is SO what I want! A rounded-corner dock, mmMMmm

Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post


Not taken by me, but found elsewhere on the intertubes. Nifty, if you really hate the new 3D dock.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 01:36 PM
 
The noglass command works no matter where the Dock is located, apparently.

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Oct 24, 2007, 02:41 PM
 
I still like the LOOK of the other better. But I will have to check it out before making final decision. Hopefully by the time I get home..
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post


Not taken by me, but found elsewhere on the intertubes. Nifty, if you really hate the new 3D dock.
Awesome. I really hate the new dock and that'll be the first thing I do on Friday. The second thing I want to do is disable stacks and enable the old folder browsing within the dock functionality.

Anyone know if there's a similar command that can disable stacks? Oh, and also disabling the folder preview icon in the dock. I don't want the appearance of folders in my dock changing.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 04:09 PM
 
I'm with Kevin. I prefer to have double scroll arrows at the top and the bottom of the scroll bar. Every time I install a new version of OS X I just enter the following in Terminal:

defaults write "Apple Global Domain" AppleScrollBarVariant DoubleBoth

That's all it takes and it works perfectly. Unfortunately, the new iTunes just doesn't respect this setting. The value of this approach is that you can change direction on your scroll without having to mouse all the way to the top/bottom of the window.

OAW
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by G0Ducks View Post
Interesting... Wonder how they got the new dock look to be at the bottom of the screen!? That is SO what I want! A rounded-corner dock, mmMMmm
Someone didn't actually look at the screen shot.

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Oct 24, 2007, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I'm with Kevin. I prefer to have double scroll arrows at the top and the bottom of the scroll bar. Every time I install a new version of OS X I just enter the following in Terminal:

defaults write "Apple Global Domain" AppleScrollBarVariant DoubleBoth

That's all it takes and it works perfectly. Unfortunately, the new iTunes just doesn't respect this setting. The value of this approach is that you can change direction on your scroll without having to mouse all the way to the top/bottom of the window.

OAW
And I have always done this, and liked this setting. If Apple doesn't want people doing it, they need to take the option out.

I don't care really much anymore since the scroll wheel.

But still. I think it aesthetically looked better.
     
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Oct 24, 2007, 08:30 PM
 
Regarding TimeMachine

Currently you have to invoke Time Machine through opening the application itself, which means you always need to have it in the dock. Is it me or does this seem inconsistent with how similar features are invoked in OS X like Dashboard or Exposé? I know that by default Dashboard at least have a dock-icon, but most people remove that and use the keyboard shortcut instead.

Furthermore, not all applications support Time Machine. Invoking it in Mail, iPhoto or Address Book gives Time Machine interfaces for those, but anywhere else it gives you the front-most Finder window.

So wouldn't it make more sense to have a toolbar button in the applications that support it instead? QuickLook gets its own toolbar button in Finder, so why not Time Machine? A global button (dock icon) makes little sense when the feature is applied to a local window.

I could still see a global keyboard shortcut be useful too though.

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Oct 24, 2007, 08:49 PM
 
Fully agree, but I think that the dock icon is the best way to do it. The other option would be a menu bar icon (too small), or a Time Machine Icon in each supported app (too complicated and confusing)
     
 
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