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tkmd · Nov 13, 2007, 08:54 AM

I would like to move the utilities folders out of the application folder - is this going to break anything in the OS?

Big Mac · Nov 13, 2007, 08:56 AM

Yeah, not the best idea.

peeb · Nov 13, 2007, 11:09 AM

Why not? It shouldn't matter where Apps are kept.

CharlesS · Nov 13, 2007, 11:14 AM

The .pkg format has allowed installers to check LaunchServices to see where an app is installed when updating it since OS X 10.2. However, Apple was always a bit sporadic in terms of actually using this feature. In Leopard, however, the mechanism has been updated to use Spotlight in addition to LaunchServices, and PackageMaker has been updated to make this feature a lot easier to use. There's a new emphasis on making it easier to use so that developers will actually use it, and therefore one would hope that Apple would set a good example themselves by using it consistently in the software updates.

Time will tell, though.

zro · Nov 13, 2007, 01:51 PM

Use an alias, instead.

peeb · Nov 13, 2007, 03:12 PM

Why? What is the problem with moving apps?

Hal Itosis · Nov 13, 2007, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Why? What is the problem with moving apps?

A) it's 100% unnecessary - whatever you think it "accomplishes" can be done better another way.

B) to obsess over the fact that they are better left alone is childish.

Apple likes their apps where they are.

But, go ahead... knock yourself out.
While you're at it, shuffle the stuff inside /bin, /etc, /sbin, /var all over your HD as well.
Put 'em anywhere you like.
See how far that gets you.

CharlesS · Nov 14, 2007, 01:28 AM

The difference there being that for applications, Apple has a LaunchServices mechanism to track apps no matter where they move on the drive..........

peeb · Nov 14, 2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

A) it's 100% unnecessary - whatever you think it "accomplishes" can be done better another way.

Most settings and preferences are 'unnecessary' in the strict sense - but some people like their machines set up in certain ways.

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

B) to obsess over the fact that they are better left alone is childish.

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

Apple likes their apps where they are.

Really? What makes you think that?

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

But, go ahead... knock yourself out.
While you're at it, shuffle the stuff inside /bin, /etc, /sbin, /var all over your HD as well.
Put 'em anywhere you like.
See how far that gets you.

That's not the same at all - the apps are in userland, the others are system files and folders. The ways apps are built on Mac OS makes it easy to put them where ever you like - I'm happy to be proved wrong, but no one has made a case for why moving apps would be bad.

Art Vandelay · Nov 14, 2007, 11:53 AM

Because Apple's software updates have a tendency not to search for apps. Instead they just install the updated files to where the apps normally are, not where they have been moved to. So, you end up with outdated apps elsewhere on the drive and pieces of apps in their default locations.

peeb · Nov 14, 2007, 11:57 AM

Interesting - I've never come across that - the only issue I have had is with Office - that puts random crap in odd places, and doesn't like to be moved.

Big Mac · Nov 14, 2007, 12:00 PM

Yes, Apple's OS X updaters have always insisted on placing updates in their original locations.

CharlesS · Nov 14, 2007, 12:01 PM

Not really. As I said before, the package format has supported the ability to track applications and install in their new locations since 10.2. Yes, there have occasionally been a few packages now and again that neglected to include a TokenDefinitions.plist file (although I think the "pieces of apps in their default locations" problem hasn't been around for quite a long time), but seriously, in Leopard's PackageMaker, instead of having to write a TokenDefinitions.plist file, making an app relocatable is just a simple check box. And what's more, that check box is on by default. So really, I doubt you will see any software updates fail to find where you've moved your apps in Leopard.

Art Vandelay · Nov 14, 2007, 12:12 PM

It still happens in Tiger. I've had to go remove pieces of apps that the updaters tried to update even when the app doesn't exist anywhere on the system for our labs.

peeb · Nov 14, 2007, 12:26 PM

Which apps?

CharlesS · Nov 14, 2007, 12:27 PM

Perhaps. But I'd be very surprised to see that happen in Leopard (or even in any future Tiger updates that get released from now on, since PackageMaker 3 can make Tiger packages too, and it automatically generates TokenDefinitions.plist files for them).

Art Vandelay · Nov 14, 2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Which apps?

iChat and Internet Connect are two that I've repeatedly had to clean up pieces of.

tkmd · Nov 14, 2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

It still happens in Tiger. I've had to go remove pieces of apps that the updaters tried to update even when the app doesn't exist anywhere on the system for our labs.

Java and Adobe flash/ acrobat installer, just to name a couple. It seems that apps that dump multiple folders find a way to create a new utilities folder in the apps folder. The reason I know this is because I had moved the utility folder in the past and programs have created a new utility folder in place of the original one that I had moved. Not being sure of program functionality ,if I were to move these "extra " folders, I am hesitant now to move it.

This question grew from my frustration in Leopard stacks! The more stuff that accumulated in the utilities folder (I had it pinned on the side in leopard) the greater movement I had with the mouse to reach it - this was annoying to me so I thought of moving it... but if your saying that I can in leopard with the spotlight/ installer thing in leopard....

TETENAL · Nov 14, 2007, 12:53 PM

I would say you better not move the default folders and applications. Even if application updaters can find a moved application under Leopard. Who knows what else expects the standard folders and applications to be in place. You named some examples yourself.

I don't get your issue with stacks anyway. The Utilities folder is just one extra item in the Applications stack. That should hardly make a difference. And if you have the Utilities folder itself in the Dock, it doesn't matter where it's located on the drive.

tkmd · Nov 14, 2007, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I don't get your issue with stacks anyway. The Utilities folder is just one extra item in the Applications stack. That should hardly make a difference. And if you have the Utilities folder itself in the Dock, it doesn't matter where it's located on the drive.

I had put the utilities folder in the dock - it has programs that I use almost daily so thats why I put it there. Its just an efficiency thing - if I kept in the apps folder (also in the dock) I need to click "show in finder" then scroll to the program I want. I just wanted to speed up my workflow by decreasing the amount of mouse clicks and the back and forth distance my mouse has to travel if I were to find the program in stacks. Stacks is something that Apple wont backpedal on and modify so I am learning to use it as effectively as possible.

TETENAL · Nov 14, 2007, 03:27 PM

Sorry, I still don't get it. When you have the Utilities folder in the Dock, why does it matter whether it is in the Applications folder or not? It doesn't make any difference.