[ChadC]

I have an old quicksilver G4 mac and a G4 mac mini. They both have some software and related files on them (email, accounting, pictures, etc) that i would like to merge onto the mac mini. Is there any specific software that can do this?

Typically I would use carbon copy cloner to clone an HD to a new machine and have no problems. I've also used time machine with my macbook pro but this is kind of an interesting dilemma.. Any ideas?

Thanks Mucho,
Chad

[besson3c]

rsync will do this quite easily.

[analogika]

How would rsync merge the e-mail databank?

[besson3c]

If you were using IMAP it wouldn't matter, but if you rsynced your home directory it would include your client's cache, if you have one and are using one.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

rsync will do this quite easily.

Oh could you just stop it.

You're selling rsync like snake oil.

And you propose rsync to people who have never touched the Terminal.

Rsync is a horrible option in this case, because there is great danger that you would not handle different file revisions with the same name well.


My advice to the OP: clone the Mac that's more up-to-date and manually sort the other Mac ot.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Oh could you just stop it.

You're selling rsync like snake oil.

And you propose rsync to people who have never touched the Terminal.

Rsync is a horrible option in this case, because there is great danger that you would not handle different file revisions with the same name well.

It's a great option. By the time you find some GUI app that you like and have paid the shareware fees, you could have figured out that the -a flag is all rsync needs to preserve everything, and that the syntax really isn't that difficult.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If you were using IMAP it wouldn't matter, but if you rsynced your home directory it would include your client's cache, if you have one and are using one.

I'll repeat: How would that merge different mail accounts or mail databases into any mail application?


Chad:

You can use something like rsync to combine the contents of all your folders, but as for e-mail, you'll probably have to manually import the mailboxes from the old machine, as well as enter any account information that's not already set up on the new machine by hand.

rsync is also useless for combining different internet bookmark files, or any settings files where the two machines have different preferences set.

I'd probably use the Migration Assistant to transfer the applications and do all the user-folder stuff in a separate go, mostly by hand.

[turtle777]

For 95% of the Mac users, rsync will screw things up for them up.

It's NOT a tool that is user friendly, and it will NOT warn you when you are about to do something stupid.

I don't hate rsync, I use it myself. It's just not a good solution for most people out there.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I'll repeat: How would that merge different mail accounts or mail databases into any mail application?


Chad:

You can use something like rsync to combine the contents of all your folders, but as for e-mail, you'll probably have to manually import the mailboxes from the old machine, as well as enter any account information that's not already set up on the new machine by hand.

rsync is also useless for combining different internet bookmark files, or any settings files where the two machines have different preferences set.

I'd probably use the Migration Assistant to transfer the applications and do all the user-folder stuff in a separate go, mostly by hand.

Why? User preferences are all stored in ~/Library, so if you rsync that over you have duplicated all of your application settings. Why would you think otherwise?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Why? User preferences are all stored in ~/Library, so if you rsync that over you have duplicated all of your application settings. Why would you think otherwise?

What are you not understanding here?

The new machine IS ALREADY SET UP AND RUNNING.

Mail.app's account preferences, for example, are stored in ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist.

What happens if you tell rsync to sync that file, presumably, is that it throws out the older of the two files and copies the newer one over.

Right?

Well, one of those files references the mailboxes on one machine, and the other the mailboxes on the other machine. So even if the Mail folders are synchronized, the mailboxes aren't seen in Mail, nor the accounts that were on one of the machines (such as they were different from the other machine). Whoops.

What happens if you have a single databank file, such as an Entourage databank with contacts and e-mails, with different contents on both machines?

What about bookmarks? They're stored in a single file.

Does rsync recognize filetypes and combine them, text-line by text-line, taking care not to mess up the formatting and special provisions that every application requires in order to function properly?

Come on, dude.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

What are you not understanding here?

The new machine IS ALREADY SET UP AND RUNNING.

Mail.app's account preferences, for example, are stored in ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist.

What happens if you tell rsync to sync that file, presumably, is that it throws out the older of the two files and copies the newer one over.

Right?

Well, one of those files references the mailboxes on one machine, and the other the mailboxes on the other machine. So even if the Mail folders are synchronized, the mailboxes aren't seen in Mail, nor the accounts that were on one of the machines (such as they were different from the other machine). Whoops.

What happens if you have a single databank file, such as an Entourage databank with contacts and e-mails, with different contents on both machines?

What about bookmarks? They're stored in a single file.

Does rsync recognize filetypes and combine them, text-line by text-line, taking care not to mess up the formatting and special provisions that every application requires in order to function properly?

Come on, dude.

So what is really at the heart of what you are saying is the basic differences between a file based sync and an application based sync. Fine, but until you can name me an all-encompassing application based sync tool that can be run periodically to do this over the network without a physical connection between machines and that supports a whole plethora of file formats, this is not really an option, is it?

Whether you are using Carbon Copy Cloner/disk images/disk image snapshots, psync, rsync, or any other sync tool that I can think of, you are doing this at the file system level. There is a whole slew of problems in doing this at the application level - dealing withi proprietary formats, stuff which is version specific, etc. In this poster's original post he mentioned syncing "accounting", which I'm assuming refers to financial accounting... So, how are you going to do this at the application level?

So, rsync is a perfectly reasonable option given the premise of doing this at the file system level, learning curve not withstanding...

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So what is really at the heart of what you are saying is the basic differences between a file based sync and an application based sync. Fine, but until you can name me an all-encompassing application based sync tool that can be run periodically to do this over the network without a physical connection between machines and that supports a whole plethora of file formats, this is not really an option, is it?

Until you can guarantee that rsync is not going to mess up the OP's system (which you can't since you don't know his setup), suggesting rsync to him is not an option either. The only safe way to do this is to manually move stuff over.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Until you can guarantee that rsync is not going to mess up the OP's system (which you can't since you don't know his setup), suggesting rsync to him is not an option either. The only safe way to do this is to manually move stuff over.

Fair enough, I wasn't thinking about merging configurations that were in production (i.e. hold some useful data on both ends) and out-of-sync between the two computers, just personal files and actual Applications.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Fair enough, I wasn't thinking about merging configurations that were in production (i.e. hold some useful data on both ends) and out-of-sync between the two computers, just personal files and actual Applications.

I tried to explain that to you three times.

And it was, in fact, in the very first post - by the original poster.

The point that both machines were production machines and BOTH held useful data was, in fact the ENTIRE REASON WHY THIS THREAD WAS POSTED in the first place!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I tried to explain that to you three times.

And of course because we weren't on the same page, this was my fault just because? As if your "setting up an email account" explanation was being this precise? Let's not pick this apart, but it is funny that when something is not understood it is almost always the listener's fault around here... How many times have you read posts that addressed crap like "reading comprehension". I wish we would stop this. The speaker carries a responsibility to speak precisely and clearly enough to be understood, and if he/she is not understood it is not a given that this person is free of any communication responsibility. At the very least, being rude and belligerent doesn't help, does it?

And it was, in fact, in the very first post - by the original poster.

I don't want to bicker with you about that, but I don't see that in the original post even now... How about we just leave it at that?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

And of course because we weren't on the same page, this was my fault just because? As if your "setting up an email account" explanation was being this precise?

You have e-mail accounts and an e-mail database on one machine.
You have e-mail accounts and a different e-mail database on another machine.

How can you use rsync to consolidate those into a single, usable account?

Answer: You can't.

What exactly is "imprecise" about my example?

[besson3c]

First mention:

How would rsync merge the e-mail databank?

Second mention:

I'll repeat: How would that merge different mail accounts or mail databases into any mail application?

First of all, this is irrelevant if we are dealing with IMAP. Second of all, this does not state that we are dealing with the same email account on multiple machines (in fact, you said "merge different mail accounts"), or that one computer even has any email accounts setup.

I'm not going to continue this conversation any further, but I wanted to point out that it is not cool to blame your listener where there is some clarity missing, and even if you feel that there is no possible way in the world that what you wrote could be misunderstood, you need to be open to the possibility that somebody else won't see it that way, and you need to not be rude about it.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

First of all, this is irrelevant if we are dealing with IMAP. Second of all, this does not state that we are dealing with the same email account on multiple machines (in fact, you said "merge different mail accounts"), or that one computer even has any email accounts setup.

1) Most people I know have more than one e-mail account, and at least one of those is POP.

2) The original poster specifically mentioned mail.

3) Even in Mail.app, simply copying mail account folders into the appropriate ~/Library/Mail/ directory DOES NOT make Mail.app recognize them - the individual mailboxes are listed, along with the accounts, in com.apple.mail.plist, and unless you find a solution that somehow combines several .plist files, you MUST import the mailboxes manually.

4) Point 3) applies to pretty much for ANY application in which relevant information is stored in preference files that are frequently updated - bookmarks, stickies, notes, calendars, whatever.


Your reflex solution to any question is invariably either "RSYNC!" or "OPEN SOURCE! (in variations)" or a combination of both, and it really makes you look the "if all you gots is a hammer, any problem looks like a nail" type.

Sorry if I seem rude, but it's annoying me.
(Not that I'm not guilty of not thoroughly reading the question on occasion, myself.)

[besson3c]

My intention was to throw rsync out there as something to look at, as I felt that the poster was looking for ideas rather than a thorough diagnostic prescription. Rsync and other open source and/or Unix tools are often overlooked by the sort of old school Mac and Windows mentality of "the solution to every fathomable problem involves paying for a shareware utility and a GUI". Given this, yes, I admit that sometimes the ideas I toss out are a little reflexive, but I've grown to look for solutions within the Unix environment, and I hope that my problem solving contributions are of value to some. Like any recommendation, there are times when they are helpful and/or appropriate, and times when they are not.

To me, the menality I've described above is a little too reflexive. I find the "there is no pretty GUI, it must be hard and/or antiquated" to be annoying, depending on the context. We are all smart enough to learn new things, and I wouldn't be making these comments if I didn't find the solution I was pointing somebody at helpful to me on at least one occasion.

When you ask people for advice, particularly a group, you take some advice and you discard the rest... I'm cool with people discarding my advice, just as I hope that they are cool with me discarding theirs. It happens...

[analogika]

But when you throw out a suggestion that in no way addresses the specific situation described in the original inquiry, you're gonna have to live with people telling you it's useless.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

But when you throw out a suggestion that in no way addresses the specific situation described in the original inquiry, you're gonna have to live with people telling you it's useless.

As we hashed out, I felt that it was useful... I wouldn't have recommended it if I didn't think it was. It may still be for certain data...

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

As we hashed out, I felt that it was useful... I wouldn't have recommended it if I didn't think it was. It may still be for certain data...

...that this thread had nothing to do with (since the original poster would have used CCC otherwise, like he usually does).

Heh.

[besson3c]

Does CCC do deltas, or just complete snapshots?

[analogika]

Bombich Software: Carbon Copy Cloner

Incremental.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My intention was to throw rsync out there as something to look at.

We already know that you're a rsync fanboi.

Your constant mentioning of rsync as the "wonder tool" is getting old.

Rsync has quiate a steep learning curve. It's just not helpful for most people.

Actually, let me just make this assumption: people capable of understanding and using rsync wouldn't ask questions that can be solved with rsync in the first place.

-t