[mactropolis]

Hi All,
I currently use Mac OS X 10.5 Client, but I am looking to set up a personal home Web developer system and trying to choose between sticking with Client or moving to Leopard Server.

First of all, exactly how hard is it to setup a basic MAMP (Mac OS X, Apache, MySQL, PHP) & Apache Tomcat server on Leopard Client??

I just realized Leopard Server has everything I need for Web development pre-assembled, including Apache Tomcat 6.0.18, MySQL Server 5, etc, all of which come pre-configured. But more importantly, they get updated regularly with Apple Security Updates. Even for the stuff already included in Client, Leopard Server provides nice GUI interfaces (eg. Postfix SMTP server). Yes, I know each of these services can be individually installed and configured manually on my current Leopard Client, but it would be nice to get them all together (ala LAMP/WAMP).

Any possible problems of Leopard Server as a general day-to-day OS?

Another mid-way option is to install Server Tools on my current OS X Client. Would this provide the services I need, such as Tomcat and MySQL??

Thanks for any input!

[besson3c]

Actually, Apples versions of AMP are usually pretty far behind the curve, and it is unclear whether they backport security fixes. If you need to deploy your sites on a host that uses newer versions of these pieces, they should work providing you aren't using very old deprecated functions and techniques such as requiring Register Globals to be on in PHP, which some hosts may not permit.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of OS X Server at all. The moment you go beyond the comfortable little bubble that Apple has provided, the more things get increasingly difficult. If you want a brain dead easy and flexible web infrastructure, I'd go with Ubuntu. The config GUIs are either less nice or non-existent, but it's good to have a good relationship between your applications and their configuration prerequisites anyway (e.g. PHP memory requirement, post/upload max sizes, register globals, use of Apache modules, PHP safe mode, PHP extensions, etc.), and it's really not that hard to setup your environment using one of oodles of LAMP guides out there, especially with Ubuntu.

[mduell]

Just install the various apps on the client version.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Just install the various apps on the client version.

How? If you find some dude's binary installer you get these packages with whatever options he decides to compile, no guarantee that they will continue to be updated, no guarantee that his machine wasn't compromised and his package infected (unless you are diligent about doing your own md5 checks), and a PITA to have to update not knowing whether a new package will create problems.

This is where proper package management comes into play.

Macports will help, but getting the Macports pieces to override Apple's installed bits while still using Apple's GUI is a royal PITA, and if you are simply going to use Macports to install virgin pieces of this infrastructure and not use Apple's GUI, you might as well skip OS X Server altogether. As far as OS X Client and Macports go, you would be building this environment yourself anyway and getting pretty much what you could build faster and easier in an OS like Ubuntu.

Just my two cents.

[mduell]

Fink or MacPorts will work after you rip out the ancient version Apple pushes. Or just use the versions Apple ships if you don't need the bleeding edge features and firewall them off to local machine only.

Suggestions for Linux don't help if he wants to do his development in OS X; running Ubuntu in virtualization is possible, but may be excessive in terms of overhead if he doesn't have gobs of memory free.

[mactropolis]

Hey, thanks for all the input guys!

Yeah, I had realized Apple's version of AMP tend to lag far behind. I was attracted though, at the possibility of something as simple as Software Update to bring newer, more secure versions incredible easy. A recent Security Update brought Tomcat to latest actually (6.0.18) -- but that was after some time with an older release, and true, unclear if Apple back-ports bug fixes.

Production compatibility isn't that important (yet), I just need this (M)AMP & Tomcat setup for some University courses -- and was trying hard not to abandon my OS X for Ubuntu or OpenBSD, etc.

I'm familiar with Ubuntu and know it has some good, proper GUI config tools, but I really want to keep this Mac-based (heavens know I'll never restart and actually get to do work in Ubuntu...) Virtualization is an option (2 GB RAM) I could look at indeed.

I've been thinking about the MacPorts/Fink route foremost, but worried about mixing new packages into an official OS X ecosystem. For example, if I use MacPorts to upgrade to a newer Apache (or PHP, etc), and then 10.5.6 is released including an older Apache, what happens then?? Am I in version limbo?? I don't really need any GUI tools (what limited Client has anyway), but I definitely don't want a versioning mess (eg. old and new Apache modules mixing,etc) !

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

[besson3c]

MacPorts installs stuff into its own sandbox within /opt as to not interfere with Apple's stuff - it doesn't touch Apple's stuff, and vice versa.

[mactropolis]

OK, great to hear that besson3c!

So I can do a MAMP sandbox install into /opt and keep those versions discrete from the official OS X eco system?? I understand none of the GUI tools (System Preferences, etc) would control the MacPorts install, and thats fine. Would that require me to update all the config files to point /opt/(PHP, Apache, etc) or does MacPorts/Fink have a XAMPP-like setup?

Talking XAMPP, which approach does this XAMPP 0.7 for Mac take? Does it sandbox it somewhere or it overwrite Apple's packages?

Thanks again,